| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's 12:29 - Oct 6 with 2796 views | nick141 |
Perhaps I'm naive but i was genuinely surprised by the level of anger in the minutes between their goal and Philo's belter. People were losing their sh*t at the players for trying to pass it out the back, and also just generally angry with the players in general.
It contributed to a borderline toxic environment for that 10 minutes, and I would worry how the game might've gone if we hadn't had the wonder goal.
Do people not realise that a) we are going to pass it out the back as we have done for the past 3 years to general success and b) that standing up performatively and shouting abuse at the players does them no good, is harmful to their chances of winning, and therefore increases the risk of sadness for you as the shouter?!
NB it was a bloody great day, and not trying to bring the mood down - but I would like our fans to be more resilient to set backs in future. Do tell me if i'm being naive! [Post edited 6 Oct 12:30]
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:43 - Oct 6 with 2342 views | Swailsey |
You’re right, it was OTT.
However, I’d say we haven’t passed it out from the back well for over a year now, and the players who did it so well are no longer at the club (except Leif), with their replacements not up to the task. Hladky, Morsy, Mass, Wolfie (even Cam) all were the reason we could do it so effectively.
I’ll be very worried if we continue trying to play out from the back with the current line-up, as it just isn’t having the same impact on games. The players aren’t skilful enough with their feet to make it work at this level (hence the frequent mixups between Palmer/O’Shea/Furlong).
No slights on them as general players, but ball players at the back they ain’t. [Post edited 6 Oct 12:49]
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:44 - Oct 6 with 2311 views | FrimleyBlue |
It's not about playing from the back
It's when. There were absolute suicide balls being played and not sensible ones either. |  |
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:48 - Oct 6 with 2253 views | DanTheMan |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:44 - Oct 6 by FrimleyBlue |
It's not about playing from the back
It's when. There were absolute suicide balls being played and not sensible ones either. |
The biggest breakdown is O'Shea to Furlong. They are not on the same wavelength yet. There was that little passage of play I want to say at the beginning of the second half that was pretty mental, as it obviously wasn't on, but they persisted anyway. I think Matusiwa tried to come and help, but they kept passing it between the two of them and getting further and further boxed in. |  |
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:51 - Oct 6 with 2203 views | IH_KGF |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:48 - Oct 6 by DanTheMan |
The biggest breakdown is O'Shea to Furlong. They are not on the same wavelength yet. There was that little passage of play I want to say at the beginning of the second half that was pretty mental, as it obviously wasn't on, but they persisted anyway. I think Matusiwa tried to come and help, but they kept passing it between the two of them and getting further and further boxed in. |
DOS in the opening 10 mins was a really strange watch. nothing worked, playing the ball out of play, giving it straight to their midfield. thankfully settled down, but far from ideal |  | | |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:52 - Oct 6 with 2182 views | homer_123 |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:44 - Oct 6 by FrimleyBlue |
It's not about playing from the back
It's when. There were absolute suicide balls being played and not sensible ones either. |
Rewatching the game currently by homer_123 5 Oct 20:45Too slow.
Yes and no.
If we analyse why we are sometimes slow playing out...its because of the opposition. Norwich, today, played a high block, their press was not the first or even second ball, their press was mainly when the ball was played into midfield.
The reason we turned possession over was because of that block then press.
So, it was difficult to playvthe ball earlier as Norwich were not only marking tightly but committing additional players to that midfield press.
Hence the ball being played across the back four.
So, yes, we were slow at times but there's a reason and a good one we didn't rush.
Once we started turning their defence, they didn't defend as high, the gaps in midfield started to show and we started to play through the lines much more effectively.
Playing quicker wasn't the answer today. Playing smarter, stretching the play, turning the defenders so they ended up sitting deeper worked a treat.
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:53 - Oct 6 with 2166 views | southnorfolkblue |
Yes we play out from the back, but they should be flexible enough to change it when they realise that it's not working, as they did eventually in the second half. The O Shea Furlong partnership is not conducive to playing this way. Cajuste looks like he's going to lose the ball more often than break the lines with it.
It was a big game for the fans and the frustration was understandable imho | |
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:55 - Oct 6 with 2142 views | jasondozzell |
Well said.
We have a lot of fans who I don't think are supporters really.
So seem to be itching to get on players' backs and shout abusive stuff. Macateer - some are desperate to heap abuse already.
Hirsty isn't perfect (no player is) but he's led the line superbly for us through the leagues. Again, so many are keen to write him off and shout abuse. Players have poorer games - it just happens. And Hirst gets through so much work that goes unseen.
As for the playing at the back thing, I totally agree. KM referenced it and the players. Staying calm even when the crowd are on edge. Being brave on the ball is what has got us here. Fans have had 5 years to get used to it!
Remember KM pointing out an individual fan clapping during the build up from the back early on? To make the point to the players that some were recognising it.
It was a great day but the throwing stuff and the behaviour you talk about really disappointing. [Post edited 6 Oct 12:55]
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 13:14 - Oct 6 with 1969 views | bsw72 |
Not quite . . .
There's a difference between playing out from the back to create space by pulling opposition players out of position by moving the ball quickly (1-2 touches) to draw them in and then playing the right ball in behind or through the oppo to kick start an attack versus what we were doing yesterday.
We were slow with the passing element yesterday (often 3-4 touches) which meant that the Nodge players had an extra fraction of a second and therefore were able to close down the Town players and limit the space - hence we often found ourselves trapped going further backwards.
Once we were 3-1 up, there was more space and confidence so we were passing quicker with 1-2 touches, against a tired and demotivated oppo - so it improved for the last 15 mins.
I am all for playing out for the back if it is done the right way, my concern is that our players are just doing it with an extra touch or two, either through lack of confidence or the fact that the team are still learning the system and movement required - these things take time.
Finally, the team need to know that every so often, you *have* to just clear your lines, to allow your defence and midfield to find their shape and start again. |  | | |
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 13:18 - Oct 6 with 1926 views | NthQldITFC |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:43 - Oct 6 by Swailsey |
You’re right, it was OTT.
However, I’d say we haven’t passed it out from the back well for over a year now, and the players who did it so well are no longer at the club (except Leif), with their replacements not up to the task. Hladky, Morsy, Mass, Wolfie (even Cam) all were the reason we could do it so effectively.
I’ll be very worried if we continue trying to play out from the back with the current line-up, as it just isn’t having the same impact on games. The players aren’t skilful enough with their feet to make it work at this level (hence the frequent mixups between Palmer/O’Shea/Furlong).
No slights on them as general players, but ball players at the back they ain’t. [Post edited 6 Oct 12:49]
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In a kind of perverse way this may help us - bear with me...
We're not so good at playing out from the back now as we were in 23/24, so opponents think they can capitalise on that and press us to force mistakes. We then get forced into playing the longer ball a bit more (e.g. O'Shea > Hirst yesterday) against an opponent which has pushed right up. OK, so it's not exactly counter attacking but it will develop our skillset for counter attacking should we get promoted again. That would possibly be a better way to into the PL than we did last time, much as I admired and was pleased we did so then. |  |
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 13:20 - Oct 6 with 1893 views | stonojnr |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:44 - Oct 6 by FrimleyBlue |
It's not about playing from the back
It's when. There were absolute suicide balls being played and not sensible ones either. |
Even McKenna mentioned it was something like we werent executing bits as well as we could, and we certainly were creating problems for ourselves doing it but its the style of play we have had since McKenna came in, if its feeling like its still new to some people you wonder where they've been the last few seasons.
Fwiw i didn't see people getting angry with it, frustrated maybe but that's just the nature of derby games, ive seen people get far more animated at games than they were about tha yesterday | | | |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 13:22 - Oct 6 with 1878 views | MrPorterloo |
I think there are levels to it. I am not somebody who gets mindlessly angry at it and begs for hoofball, but we do seem to be right at the other extreme. There were several occasions yesterday (and some in other games this season) where we were really backed into a very tight corner and still refused to go long. We then either relied on somebody doing a very risky (and skillful) piece of dribbling to take it past one of their forward players or we lost the ball / kicked it out of play.
I am not suggesting we give up on passing it out from the back, I understand the principle of drawing them in to create space behind, but we do seem to be intent on almost NEVER going long, even if the situation is becoming very risky.
I would like to see the players identify these circumstances a bit more and occasionally play it long up to Walle Egli / Hirst (who are both good at winning ariel duels / second balls).
The best method is probably to mostly try and play short but go long when the risk / reward is not worth it. | | | |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 13:29 - Oct 6 with 1801 views | _clive_baker_ |
Certainly more anxiety yesterday, on and off the pitch. I thought we looked nervy, certainly for the opening 15 minutes. Perhaps the weight of expectation felt bigger because it was a derby. O'Shea played 1 or 2 balls in to touch which was uncharacteristic, we seemed to take a while to settle in to it IMO.
Fans fed off it a bit I think, players fed off that in turn. Agree with shouting abuse, never ceases to amaze me how certain people think that's helpful in a game. |  | | |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 13:51 - Oct 6 with 1617 views | FlittonBlue |
When was the last time playing the ball out from the back resulted in an interception that led to a goal?
When was the last time playing the ball around in midfield led to an inteception resulting in a goal?
When was the last time playing the ball long resulted in the opposition winning the ball resulting in a goal?
Suspect the answers would be surprising... | | | |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 13:53 - Oct 6 with 1593 views | Kieran_Knows |
GET IT FORWARD BUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |  |
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 14:01 - Oct 6 with 1497 views | GlasgowBlue |
Perhaps OTT but it was incredibly frustrating seeing O'Shea and Palmer giving the opposition possession of the ball. It's happening far too often.
Palmer, O'Shea, Greves, Kipre and Matusiwa are not capable of playing the same way as Hladky, Wolfenden, Burgess and Morsy.
We are dominating games yet give the opposition a confidence boost when we panic at the back. Better teams will punish us.
It's the only negative from yesterday. [Post edited 6 Oct 14:04]
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 14:11 - Oct 6 with 1402 views | DanTheMan |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 14:01 - Oct 6 by GlasgowBlue |
Perhaps OTT but it was incredibly frustrating seeing O'Shea and Palmer giving the opposition possession of the ball. It's happening far too often.
Palmer, O'Shea, Greves, Kipre and Matusiwa are not capable of playing the same way as Hladky, Wolfenden, Burgess and Morsy.
We are dominating games yet give the opposition a confidence boost when we panic at the back. Better teams will punish us.
It's the only negative from yesterday. [Post edited 6 Oct 14:04]
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Just to play devils advocate, the corner that led to the first goal went:
Davis -> Palmer -> O'Shea -> Furlong -> O'Shea -> Matusiwa -> Palmer -> Davis -> Cajuste -> Egeli.
There are signs it can work but I suspect you're right in that it won't ever be as effective as it was. [Post edited 6 Oct 14:11]
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 14:12 - Oct 6 with 1395 views | wischip |
One thing I noticed yesterday that Norwich were good at was anticipating and intercepting our passing out from defence to midfield. Trouble is for them they weren't good enough to capitalise on it. That's something we need to work on before we meet the teams that will punish us for that. |  | | |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 14:30 - Oct 6 with 1307 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 14:11 - Oct 6 by DanTheMan |
Just to play devils advocate, the corner that led to the first goal went:
Davis -> Palmer -> O'Shea -> Furlong -> O'Shea -> Matusiwa -> Palmer -> Davis -> Cajuste -> Egeli.
There are signs it can work but I suspect you're right in that it won't ever be as effective as it was. [Post edited 6 Oct 14:11]
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We come on to the pitch like invincible gladiators. The opposition look scared of us and then we start passing them the ball under pressure or kicking out foe a throw in. That seems to give the opposition some wind in the sails and we look vulnerable. That's how I'm seeing it.
KM can coach the players to play out from the back but they jus don't have that speed of thought and natural instinct that Hladky and his defenders had.
As you say, the corner came from us getting it right. But more often we don't. And what is most noticeable is that the players don't seem to able to understand when the pass really isn't on. | |
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 14:35 - Oct 6 with 1248 views | Wallingford_Boy |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 12:44 - Oct 6 by FrimleyBlue |
It's not about playing from the back
It's when. There were absolute suicide balls being played and not sensible ones either. |
Is it worth the risk? I'd say yes (and obviously so does K-McK).
When done effectively, we have them stretched, their forwards are out of position pressing us, their midfield have followed suit and are high up the pitch, a couple of quick, accurate passes and we are through them.
How many times have we conceded compared with scoring that way? I would say goals for far outway those against.
Of course you need the right personnel and although new boy Kipre looks comfortable, old boy O'Shea is looking less and less confident!
So if you have the correct personnel, its very, very effective.... |  |
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 14:35 - Oct 6 with 1253 views | cressi |
There was times we caused our own problems did you notice Palmer was far far more direct second half and we were much better. | | | |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 15:13 - Oct 6 with 1081 views | Garv |
You want football fans to be resilient to set backs? |  |
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 15:43 - Oct 6 with 959 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 13:20 - Oct 6 by stonojnr |
Even McKenna mentioned it was something like we werent executing bits as well as we could, and we certainly were creating problems for ourselves doing it but its the style of play we have had since McKenna came in, if its feeling like its still new to some people you wonder where they've been the last few seasons.
Fwiw i didn't see people getting angry with it, frustrated maybe but that's just the nature of derby games, ive seen people get far more animated at games than they were about tha yesterday |
Think is it's not about it being new, of course it's not
But people's frustrations showed as we started kicking the ball out play for throw ins when they have a long thrower, we were also playing really really short balls to azor and cajuste and were getting incredibly lucky with some of them.
Absolutely still play it, it's part of KM's style. But absolutely hoof the fker if the easy pass isnt on. I think at times we did overplay it when more direct balls would have been better. [Post edited 6 Oct 15:54]
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 15:50 - Oct 6 with 915 views | patrickswell |
There may have been an element of fans losing patience at the way in which - yet again - we had scored the first goal against Norwich only to see them equalise really quickly. It has been quite a pattern:
2016-17 Knudsen scores at Carrow Road, Norwich equalise 6 minutes later.
2017/18 Chambers scores at Carrow Road with 7 minutes of play remaining in the match. Norwich equalise 6 minutes and 43 seconds later.
2018/19 Edwards scores at Portman Road. A whopping 14 minutes later, Norwich equalise.
2023/24 Broadhead finally scores at Portman Road, but 6 minutes later, Norwich equalise. [Post edited 6 Oct 15:59]
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| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 15:54 - Oct 6 with 885 views | Blueschev |
There were quite a few people around me really laying in to Hirst, calling him a tw*t and all sorts. It seemed completely unnecessary even if he was having a poor game, which I didn't think he was. |  | | |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 16:03 - Oct 6 with 802 views | jasondozzell |
| The ten mins between their goal and Philogene's on 15:54 - Oct 6 by Blueschev |
There were quite a few people around me really laying in to Hirst, calling him a tw*t and all sorts. It seemed completely unnecessary even if he was having a poor game, which I didn't think he was. |
Yep I think it's so disrespectful especially to such an important player.
I don't think of them as real supporters.
Hirst was getting a bit of it very early on before he scored at Bolton away in League 1 promotion season. We know how that ended.
I don't think he had a poor game. Think he's lacking a bit of confidence at times. The ball that looked a simple finish was bouncing a lot. | | | |
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