| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:45 - Jul 18 with 4279 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:42 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
What about the BBC article that Owen Jones had nothing to do with? |
What about it? |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:47 - Jul 18 with 4279 views | StokieBlue |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:40 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
I'm not in the least bit angry (as I've mentioned before CAPS are for emphasis, not shouting).
You appear angry with Owen Jones though (even though pretty much the same points and quotes are made on the BBC).
Yes "entirely possible" isn't what Jones said. It's what the expert who has studied this said. Jones (and myself) are just going on that.
I'm sure there are lots of reasons for a slow down, but this expert thinks austerity could have had an impact. I'm not sure what's so objectionable about that. |
So you've ignored:
- It going down under Labour as per the graph
- Going down in places like German with no austerity
And you've chosen the bits you like. Pretty much like Mr Jones really.
He said in the headline alone: "Now we find out the real cost of austerity — our lives cut short"
Hardly what the expert said is it.
Some other silly lines are:
"Consistently rising life expectancy should be something we all take for granted."
"But we are still talking about the robbing of life. People’s lives have been truncated, because they are not living as long as they should have done if the rate of increase had continued."
SB |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:48 - Jul 18 with 4277 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:26 - Jul 18 by ElderGrizzly |
There is plenty out there and it is fairly obvious if you've been awake the last 10 or even 20 years.
We are all reliant on more convenience foods, which are higher in sugar, salt and fat than the alternatives. And we literally just eat more too.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/diet/10525107/Why-is-Britain-fatt
Owen might have a point underneath it all with healthcare, but the report he is referencing doesn't draw the conclusion he has. In fact it is very careful not to. |
Yes I can imagine things have got worse in 20 years. We're talking 7 years though. I like how you added 20 years to make your argument more compelling.
So where is your evidence that life expectancy is slowing down because we're eating more sugar, salt, fat etc than we were 7 years ago? |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:50 - Jul 18 with 4274 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:28 - Jul 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Correction.... you 'tried' to defend it. ;-)
The BBC is almost as left wing as that spiteful, bitter little troll. |
No it isn't. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:58 - Jul 18 with 4248 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:31 - Jul 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
So 4 years doesnt have an affect, but 7 years does? (Well just 2 years of Conservative Government).
Thats a handy benchmark. [Post edited 18 Jul 2017 13:32]
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7 years of austerity vs 4 years of not? I'd say it could make a difference, and this is what Sir Michael Marmot is suggesting.
He has called the data "historically highly unusual", said it was "entirely possible" austerity was to blame, and said the issue needed looking at urgently.
Unless you're someone that just rabidly defends the government, why would you be opposed to "looking at it urgently"? | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:00 - Jul 18 with 4239 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:34 - Jul 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I think maybe he IS Owen Jones. |
Given the same stuff is on the BBC, I've no idea what Owen Jones has to do with this (other than the OP doesn't like him and wanted to have a pop at him).
Why is no-one having a go at the expert that made the suggestion? | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:03 - Jul 18 with 4229 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:45 - Jul 18 by Marshalls_Mullet |
What about it? |
Elder and others are having a go at Owen Jones when the same stuff, not written by him, is on the BBC. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:04 - Jul 18 with 4224 views | StokieBlue |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:00 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
Given the same stuff is on the BBC, I've no idea what Owen Jones has to do with this (other than the OP doesn't like him and wanted to have a pop at him).
Why is no-one having a go at the expert that made the suggestion? |
You've entirely missed the point, I don't know why.
The problem is the way the article is written as though it's fact that austerity is the cause, that there are no other factors, that it's all the fault of the evil people and that the people should blame them and this specific reason.
I'm amazed you cannot see that like virtually everyone else on the thread can - I can only imagine you are seeing what you want to see. Even the Labour supporters in the comments are saying it's a stupid article.
The expert has not said what Owen Jones has put in the article, everyone has said this.
SB [Post edited 18 Jul 2017 14:05]
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:07 - Jul 18 with 4216 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:03 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
Elder and others are having a go at Owen Jones when the same stuff, not written by him, is on the BBC. |
Owen Jones wrote about the 'findings' and put his own leftist spin on it, with no shred of credible evidence.
BBC also has a leftist leaning, so that doesnt really prove anything. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:08 - Jul 18 with 4209 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:50 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
No it isn't. |
The BBC does lean to the left, as that article tended to show.
But youre right, its not as spiteful as that angry little weasel. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:09 - Jul 18 with 4202 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:47 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
So you've ignored:
- It going down under Labour as per the graph
- Going down in places like German with no austerity
And you've chosen the bits you like. Pretty much like Mr Jones really.
He said in the headline alone: "Now we find out the real cost of austerity — our lives cut short"
Hardly what the expert said is it.
Some other silly lines are:
"Consistently rising life expectancy should be something we all take for granted."
"But we are still talking about the robbing of life. People’s lives have been truncated, because they are not living as long as they should have done if the rate of increase had continued."
SB |
I haven't ignored it going down in 4 YEARS of Labour. I put that bit in capitals before, how have you forgotten it already?
As for Germany, I can't answer that as I don't know the intricate workings of the German economy. Maybe there are other factors in Germany.
Like I say, I'm just going on what Sir Michael Marmot has said. He thinks austerity might be an issue and believes it should be looked at urgently.
If an expert thinks it should be looked at urgently, why are you against that? If it's not a problem you've got nothing to lose. If it IS, we damn well SHOULD be looking at it, regardless of which party brought in the measures. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:10 - Jul 18 with 4189 views | caught-in-limbo |
Ridiculous, jumped-up little squirt. |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:15 - Jul 18 with 4186 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:04 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
You've entirely missed the point, I don't know why.
The problem is the way the article is written as though it's fact that austerity is the cause, that there are no other factors, that it's all the fault of the evil people and that the people should blame them and this specific reason.
I'm amazed you cannot see that like virtually everyone else on the thread can - I can only imagine you are seeing what you want to see. Even the Labour supporters in the comments are saying it's a stupid article.
The expert has not said what Owen Jones has put in the article, everyone has said this.
SB [Post edited 18 Jul 2017 14:05]
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I have no interest in Owen Jones one way or the other. I read the article impartially. He seemed to make fair points and backed them up with quotes.
You clearly have no time for Owen Jones (as do others in the thread).
The truth is, while it doesn't go as far, the BBC article still makes similar points. you should be focusing on those rather than your hatred for Owen Jones. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:15 - Jul 18 with 4185 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:58 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
7 years of austerity vs 4 years of not? I'd say it could make a difference, and this is what Sir Michael Marmot is suggesting.
He has called the data "historically highly unusual", said it was "entirely possible" austerity was to blame, and said the issue needed looking at urgently.
Unless you're someone that just rabidly defends the government, why would you be opposed to "looking at it urgently"? |
There is nothing to be looked into.
The trend 'started' under the false boom of the Labour Government, and then continued under the 5 years of coalition government and 2 years of tory government.
So the 'trend' has continued under 3 different governments, which would suggest its not down to any parties political strategy.
It suits Owen Jones to try to pin it to a party that he hates. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:16 - Jul 18 with 4182 views | Josebadleg |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:09 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
I haven't ignored it going down in 4 YEARS of Labour. I put that bit in capitals before, how have you forgotten it already?
As for Germany, I can't answer that as I don't know the intricate workings of the German economy. Maybe there are other factors in Germany.
Like I say, I'm just going on what Sir Michael Marmot has said. He thinks austerity might be an issue and believes it should be looked at urgently.
If an expert thinks it should be looked at urgently, why are you against that? If it's not a problem you've got nothing to lose. If it IS, we damn well SHOULD be looking at it, regardless of which party brought in the measures. |
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/fair-society-healthy-lives-full-report.pdf
Here you go there is his full report where he only mentions austerity once in the entire 242 page report. |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:16 - Jul 18 with 4177 views | Dolly2.0 |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:10 - Jul 18 by caught-in-limbo |
Ridiculous, jumped-up little squirt. |
Interesting to see people showing their true feelings (their hatred of Owen Jones) rather than focusing on the points raised in both articles. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:18 - Jul 18 with 4167 views | Dolly2.0 |
He only needs to mention it once. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:20 - Jul 18 with 4150 views | Josebadleg |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:18 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
He only needs to mention it once. |
Pity it's nothing like the way Owen Jones has described | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:21 - Jul 18 with 4146 views | StokieBlue |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:18 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
He only needs to mention it once. |
So there is a 242 page report, there are many acknowledged factors but it's fine to write a whole article and blame austerity because he mentioned it once and was directly questioned about it by a BBC journalist so he mentions it in that interview.
Really desperate stuff Dolly.
It's scaremongering of the highest order. One could go further and say it's fake news intended to stir up more support for his cause.
SB | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:27 - Jul 18 with 4130 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:21 - Jul 18 by StokieBlue |
So there is a 242 page report, there are many acknowledged factors but it's fine to write a whole article and blame austerity because he mentioned it once and was directly questioned about it by a BBC journalist so he mentions it in that interview.
Really desperate stuff Dolly.
It's scaremongering of the highest order. One could go further and say it's fake news intended to stir up more support for his cause.
SB |
This is a car crash of a thread to read. One man desperately trying to pin whatever he can on the Tories despite evidence to the contrary being presented.
It's as if he is more interested in an agenda than the facts. |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:35 - Jul 18 with 4110 views | J2BLUE |
My opinion on Jones has softened quite a bit but have to agree that is a stupid article. One glance at the UK debt clock website should show why we need to cut back on certain things. I'm not sure why so many people feel that we are entitled to things we can't pay for without debt. It's like the NHS, lots of people sit around and talk about the problems but when a tax raise is suggested suddenly it's not as important. People want things paid for without actually having to pay. We're screwing over future generations. |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:36 - Jul 18 with 4106 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:16 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
Interesting to see people showing their true feelings (their hatred of Owen Jones) rather than focusing on the points raised in both articles. |
I thought the first few comments on page one of this thread summarised the points made in Jones' article.
Life expectancy depends on a multitude of factors: exercise; diet; water and air quality and infant mortality probably the most important - putting it largely down to austerity is ridiculous.
I know of at least 30 people in their 90's and 3 who are over one hundred here in Spanish Basque Country. If those people haven't experienced crippling austerity during a civil war and Franco's dictatorship, then I don't know who has.
I think it's a ridiculous assertion to link life expectancy with government cuts in this manner.
I also think he's a jumped up little squirt who's paid to divide the county down political lines in some sort of lame attempt to make people think we have a healthy democracy. The factors which determine life expectancy run much deeper than cuts to social services by any political party. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:48 - Jul 18 with 4078 views | chicoazul |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:44 - Jul 18 by Dolly2.0 |
WTF? You think I'm biased about this article because I make ads for Haribo?
That's a mental leap even for you. |
You're right, the fact that you are in the pay of the food and sugar industry doesn't colour your judgement at all. |  |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:49 - Jul 18 with 4073 views | chicoazul |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:36 - Jul 18 by caught-in-limbo |
I thought the first few comments on page one of this thread summarised the points made in Jones' article.
Life expectancy depends on a multitude of factors: exercise; diet; water and air quality and infant mortality probably the most important - putting it largely down to austerity is ridiculous.
I know of at least 30 people in their 90's and 3 who are over one hundred here in Spanish Basque Country. If those people haven't experienced crippling austerity during a civil war and Franco's dictatorship, then I don't know who has.
I think it's a ridiculous assertion to link life expectancy with government cuts in this manner.
I also think he's a jumped up little squirt who's paid to divide the county down political lines in some sort of lame attempt to make people think we have a healthy democracy. The factors which determine life expectancy run much deeper than cuts to social services by any political party. |
Gotta say im not sure about this latest rebranding you've undergone CiL. | |
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| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 14:53 - Jul 18 with 4061 views | J2BLUE |
| Owen Jones has outdone himself this time on 13:44 - Jul 18 by giant_stow |
chuckle; Dolly: left wing twtd campaigner and spokesman for the sugar industry all at once - tricky to pull that off. |
You forgot the pie industry.
Dolly is basically a foie gras producer in humans. | |
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