| brexit 10:06 - Oct 18 with 8306 views | burian |
I am an old man and voted to Remain as my life style etc suited me. I did not want change. However, having seen the EU negotiators at work I have changed my mind and am an ardent Brexiteer. Everything points to the fact that Mrs May is a poor negotiator giving way on most matters and is being walked over by Barnier. If we decided to stay in the EU what would the cost be to us?The EU are only interested in our money and as for the scare stories about visas to visit France or Spain and international driving licences - doesn`t this work both ways?.I was thinking of the vast number of foreign hgv`s that visit us daily |  | | |  |
| brexit on 15:19 - Oct 18 with 2457 views | BlueinBrum |
| brexit on 15:11 - Oct 18 by gosblue |
The biggest problem is that half the country hope she fails and the other half hope she fails. Then we can all say I told you so. ‘I told you we should have stayed in’ or ‘I told you the Europeans are a bad lot’. From day one, May has been fighting battles on two fronts with little or no support from anyone. I’ve said it before, I was a staunch remainer but like the OP I now can’t wait to get out. |
Your last sentence bears no resemblance to the rest of your post....why has any of that made you suddenly want to leave? |  | | |
| brexit on 16:23 - Oct 18 with 2421 views | No9 |
| brexit on 10:18 - Oct 18 by Guthrum |
But what, actually, does Theresa May have to work with, what leverage is there?
If the UK "stands firm", the EU can just turn around and tell us to get stuffed. It'll hurt them a bit, but us much more so. In addition, the ground is constantly shifting, as different interest groups (both within the UK and among the EU27) apply pressure to our negotiating position. Her own party does not have a consensus on what Brexit should look like, let alone Parliament or the country as a whole.
And those foreign HGVs are carrying goods for our shops and industries. |
"And those foreign HGVs are carrying goods for our shops and industries."
I have not yet heard one voice in favour of leaving the EU deal with specifics like this.
We can produce almost nothing without relying on the EU |  | | |
| brexit on 19:25 - Oct 18 with 2407 views | gosblue |
| brexit on 15:19 - Oct 18 by BlueinBrum |
Your last sentence bears no resemblance to the rest of your post....why has any of that made you suddenly want to leave? |
I’m just tired of the whole thing. People are still making things up about what’s going to happen when we leave. Most of the negotiating is done behind the scenes by faceless wonders. I spent most of my working life negotiating with Europeans. On the whole they are bloody difficult to deal wiith. The Germans won’t budge, the French love a scrap and the Spanish and Italians won’t commit to anything and everything takes forever. If you’re not prepared to walk away from a deal then you won’t get one. I think we should just tell them to stick it and put two fingers up at them a la Agincourt and see what they come back with. | | | |
| brexit on 19:50 - Oct 18 with 2392 views | connorscontract |
So, leaving aside everything else, if, in your opinion, Barnier is a good negotiator and May and the British Government's finest are so rubbish at negotiating anything:
Why on earth would you not want to remain in the EU and have Barnier negotiate all our trade deals from a position of strength? Rather than the political equivalent of the Vicar of Dibley and the Chuckle Brothers go on their knees begging any country anywhere to trade with us? | | | |
| brexit on 20:05 - Oct 18 with 2374 views | Darth_Koont |
| brexit on 19:50 - Oct 18 by connorscontract |
So, leaving aside everything else, if, in your opinion, Barnier is a good negotiator and May and the British Government's finest are so rubbish at negotiating anything:
Why on earth would you not want to remain in the EU and have Barnier negotiate all our trade deals from a position of strength? Rather than the political equivalent of the Vicar of Dibley and the Chuckle Brothers go on their knees begging any country anywhere to trade with us? |
That's the key point.
Does anyone trust our current clowns to negotiate a mind-boggling slew of new international trade deals over the next couple of years AND get as good terms as before? It's like giving a Formula One spot to someone who can't pass a driving test. |  |
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| brexit on 21:30 - Oct 18 with 2331 views | Trequartista |
There is no negotiation possible. Tony Blair has locked us into the EU by signing the Belfast Agreement. |  |
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| brexit on 21:45 - Oct 18 with 2317 views | The_Last_Baron |
Sensible woman, seeing the EU for what it is. And a winner. |  |
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| brexit on 22:04 - Oct 18 with 2299 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| brexit on 19:25 - Oct 18 by gosblue |
I’m just tired of the whole thing. People are still making things up about what’s going to happen when we leave. Most of the negotiating is done behind the scenes by faceless wonders. I spent most of my working life negotiating with Europeans. On the whole they are bloody difficult to deal wiith. The Germans won’t budge, the French love a scrap and the Spanish and Italians won’t commit to anything and everything takes forever. If you’re not prepared to walk away from a deal then you won’t get one. I think we should just tell them to stick it and put two fingers up at them a la Agincourt and see what they come back with. |
Water boarding worked on the Greeks and they are hoping to repeat the trick here. |  |
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| brexit on 22:09 - Oct 18 with 2294 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| brexit on 20:05 - Oct 18 by Darth_Koont |
That's the key point.
Does anyone trust our current clowns to negotiate a mind-boggling slew of new international trade deals over the next couple of years AND get as good terms as before? It's like giving a Formula One spot to someone who can't pass a driving test. |
Not the current deregulation, race to the bottom mob but what about a more progressive future government (more so than the corporate EU)with different priorities. Why does nobody consider the long game | |
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| brexit on 23:03 - Oct 18 with 2268 views | pickles110564 |
| brexit on 10:17 - Oct 18 by artsbossbeard |
I have a mate who works at Felixstowe docks, you know one of the main UK ports for importing goods from overseas, and where he's in a job which is reliant on overseas trade.
He voted Brexit. |
i worked at the PORT for 32 years.
Where do you think the majority of imports come from?
It certainly is not from the EU |  | | |
| brexit on 23:17 - Oct 18 with 2260 views | dusth |
I am an old man too. First town game 1961. I want to roll back to the time before this suicidal referendum was called and my vote goes to anyone who can sort out all the problems we had then, and have even worse now and which no one appears to give a toss about. The following is a list of all the people I don't trust to sort them out for us - Teresa May, Jeremy Corbyn, Jacob Rees Mogg, Tony Blair, the Chairman of the 1922 Committee, John Major, Boris Johnson, most of the Liberal Party, all of the DUP, Winnie the Poo, Finidi George, Crazee, the so called European Research Group, anyone who marches (too late!!!) and Winston Churchill. Over and out. | |
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| brexit on 00:09 - Oct 19 with 2235 views | deaddogsmoking |
Accidentally up-voted 'cos I've just got in, full of Belgian lager, Italian pizza and courtesy of a guy who'll work all hours to make a do. Still unsure what my position is, or what it should be, but I do think (or know) that there is nothing worthwhile achieved thru' hate, envy and blame. |  | | |
| brexit on 00:10 - Oct 19 with 2233 views | baxterbasics |
| brexit on 10:17 - Oct 18 by artsbossbeard |
I have a mate who works at Felixstowe docks, you know one of the main UK ports for importing goods from overseas, and where he's in a job which is reliant on overseas trade.
He voted Brexit. |
Felixstowe is likely to get busier post-Brexit.
I work for a customs broker and we are recruiting 5 traineees to prepare for all the extra work likely to come our way. I’ve also noticed a surge in job ads on Linked in for import/export/customs positions. |  |
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| brexit on 06:45 - Oct 19 with 2194 views | dissboy2 |
| brexit on 19:50 - Oct 18 by connorscontract |
So, leaving aside everything else, if, in your opinion, Barnier is a good negotiator and May and the British Government's finest are so rubbish at negotiating anything:
Why on earth would you not want to remain in the EU and have Barnier negotiate all our trade deals from a position of strength? Rather than the political equivalent of the Vicar of Dibley and the Chuckle Brothers go on their knees begging any country anywhere to trade with us? |
nailed it | | | |
| brexit on 11:49 - Oct 19 with 2152 views | Darth_Koont |
| brexit on 00:10 - Oct 19 by baxterbasics |
Felixstowe is likely to get busier post-Brexit.
I work for a customs broker and we are recruiting 5 traineees to prepare for all the extra work likely to come our way. I’ve also noticed a surge in job ads on Linked in for import/export/customs positions. |
To be honest, I don't know if Felixstowe will be busier because of where the trade will be coming from. There will always be some niche winners in this sh!tshow.
Because the general increase in customs business isn't more trade. It's because the number of customs declarations and other admin will go through the roof once we leave the single market and customs union. Good for the customs brokers and consultants but likely to increase the costs, risks and time for supply chains that are already run with hours to spare not days. | |
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| brexit on 11:59 - Oct 19 with 2150 views | pickles110564 |
| brexit on 11:49 - Oct 19 by Darth_Koont |
To be honest, I don't know if Felixstowe will be busier because of where the trade will be coming from. There will always be some niche winners in this sh!tshow.
Because the general increase in customs business isn't more trade. It's because the number of customs declarations and other admin will go through the roof once we leave the single market and customs union. Good for the customs brokers and consultants but likely to increase the costs, risks and time for supply chains that are already run with hours to spare not days. |
You are correct with how our industry has changed over recent years.
Customers used to have large warehouses to store their goods in till they were required in their stores.
To save money they have moved to just in time deliveries (which in the shipping world can cause issues).
Felixstowe is having major problems due to a new TOS they introduced which has caused delays to the supply chain as they have moved ships to other GB ports that could not cope with the extra work.
This was mainly due to the other ports not having enough staff to handle the increased / unexpected work loads.
There is a very good page on FB which can help you understand the current struggles the haulage community is trying to cope with.
This could also have driven the need for extra customs clearance staff in these ports. | | | |
| brexit on 12:50 - Oct 19 with 2133 views | Darth_Koont |
| brexit on 11:59 - Oct 19 by pickles110564 |
You are correct with how our industry has changed over recent years.
Customers used to have large warehouses to store their goods in till they were required in their stores.
To save money they have moved to just in time deliveries (which in the shipping world can cause issues).
Felixstowe is having major problems due to a new TOS they introduced which has caused delays to the supply chain as they have moved ships to other GB ports that could not cope with the extra work.
This was mainly due to the other ports not having enough staff to handle the increased / unexpected work loads.
There is a very good page on FB which can help you understand the current struggles the haulage community is trying to cope with.
This could also have driven the need for extra customs clearance staff in these ports. |
Cheers. What's the page on FB by the way?
As it happens, I've been doing some work with a customs consultancy for the last couple of years. It's been a pretty big eye-opener to see that customs duties even at prohibitive WTO rates are the tip of the iceberg in terms of the costs and risks to many businesses. Coupled with that, you have people like the Honda Europe VP who says they have 350 trucks coming to their Swindon plant every day and only an hour's stock of components on site. It's designed to run like clockwork and costs are down to the bone ... but now they're looking at potential delays at customs and over 60,000 new pieces of documentation that will need to be seamlessly introduced into their processes. The only way that's going to work is by throwing a lot of resources at their process (people, buffer stock, supplier flexibility) to ensure it doesn't fail but the odds aren't in their favour.
They'll probably look to get some form of compensation from the government and the public purse. That's bad enough but even worse is the likelihood of other companies planning away from the UK and cutting us out of their supply chains where possible. [Post edited 19 Oct 2018 12:50]
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| brexit on 13:19 - Oct 19 with 2118 views | pickles110564 |
| brexit on 12:50 - Oct 19 by Darth_Koont |
Cheers. What's the page on FB by the way?
As it happens, I've been doing some work with a customs consultancy for the last couple of years. It's been a pretty big eye-opener to see that customs duties even at prohibitive WTO rates are the tip of the iceberg in terms of the costs and risks to many businesses. Coupled with that, you have people like the Honda Europe VP who says they have 350 trucks coming to their Swindon plant every day and only an hour's stock of components on site. It's designed to run like clockwork and costs are down to the bone ... but now they're looking at potential delays at customs and over 60,000 new pieces of documentation that will need to be seamlessly introduced into their processes. The only way that's going to work is by throwing a lot of resources at their process (people, buffer stock, supplier flexibility) to ensure it doesn't fail but the odds aren't in their favour.
They'll probably look to get some form of compensation from the government and the public purse. That's bad enough but even worse is the likelihood of other companies planning away from the UK and cutting us out of their supply chains where possible. [Post edited 19 Oct 2018 12:50]
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THA veterans | | | |
| brexit on 14:04 - Oct 19 with 2092 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Why? The sticking point is that Brexit cannot actually happen because the Ireland border HAS to remain open with no barrier to trade or people. This in effect means the referendum was a waste of time. All that is on offer is a much weaker economy, devalued £ and inconvenience for the UK whilst Ireland effectively carries on with all the significant advantages of EU membership. Nobody voted for this. Bigots want immigration down (even though it has to go up), LIttle Englanders want mega-trade deals with a world desperate for out goods and services - none of which can happen and remainers want to remain and get their country back. Meanwhile the £ is down 12%, costs are up and the economy is £50billion below where predicted before the sham referendum derailed it. There is nothing to negotiate. We are the ones who want to throw away membership - all the EU are asking is that we live with the consequences. Quite how 17.5 million can destroy the prospects for 65 million as 'the will of the people' is bizarre, particularly as 58% didn't vote tory at the last election. IF you are oldish you are already at least 15% worse off. IF we ever do come out of the EU the consequences for old people will certainly be catastrophic - the NHS is in crisis, the care sector is in crisis and care in the community has been obliterated by the tories. Shattering an already damaged economy is not a recipe for success. | |
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| brexit on 14:07 - Oct 19 with 2089 views | Ryorry |
| brexit on 14:04 - Oct 19 by ElephantintheRoom |
Why? The sticking point is that Brexit cannot actually happen because the Ireland border HAS to remain open with no barrier to trade or people. This in effect means the referendum was a waste of time. All that is on offer is a much weaker economy, devalued £ and inconvenience for the UK whilst Ireland effectively carries on with all the significant advantages of EU membership. Nobody voted for this. Bigots want immigration down (even though it has to go up), LIttle Englanders want mega-trade deals with a world desperate for out goods and services - none of which can happen and remainers want to remain and get their country back. Meanwhile the £ is down 12%, costs are up and the economy is £50billion below where predicted before the sham referendum derailed it. There is nothing to negotiate. We are the ones who want to throw away membership - all the EU are asking is that we live with the consequences. Quite how 17.5 million can destroy the prospects for 65 million as 'the will of the people' is bizarre, particularly as 58% didn't vote tory at the last election. IF you are oldish you are already at least 15% worse off. IF we ever do come out of the EU the consequences for old people will certainly be catastrophic - the NHS is in crisis, the care sector is in crisis and care in the community has been obliterated by the tories. Shattering an already damaged economy is not a recipe for success. |
Excellent post - except that when you say "We are the ones who want to throw away membership", what you really mean is "The Tory party are the ones who want to throw away membership" ... |  |
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| brexit on 14:12 - Oct 19 with 2084 views | baxterbasics |
| brexit on 11:49 - Oct 19 by Darth_Koont |
To be honest, I don't know if Felixstowe will be busier because of where the trade will be coming from. There will always be some niche winners in this sh!tshow.
Because the general increase in customs business isn't more trade. It's because the number of customs declarations and other admin will go through the roof once we leave the single market and customs union. Good for the customs brokers and consultants but likely to increase the costs, risks and time for supply chains that are already run with hours to spare not days. |
You are right of course to separate the need for more customs clerks (and expertise) and actual trade movements, a difference I didn't clarify in my post.
The main reason I think Felixstowe (and other similar ports) will see more traffic is because those who can will try and avoid Dover, because that's where the problems are going to be. | |
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| brexit on 14:14 - Oct 19 with 2079 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| brexit on 14:07 - Oct 19 by Ryorry |
Excellent post - except that when you say "We are the ones who want to throw away membership", what you really mean is "The Tory party are the ones who want to throw away membership" ... |
Well Corbyn's version of the Labour party have yet to recognize that they are the opposition in a sovereign parliament which is mandated to act in the majority of the people. They still ramble on about 'respecting the result of the referendum' by which they presumably mean national paralysis fatally damaged infrastructure etc which should make the election of a radical socialist government something of a formality. Being cynical, the wreckage of Brexit gives them a ready-made excuse for the failure of radical socialist policy. But at least the probably deserve a chance. | |
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| brexit on 14:15 - Oct 19 with 2079 views | Swansea_Blue |
| brexit on 23:03 - Oct 18 by pickles110564 |
i worked at the PORT for 32 years.
Where do you think the majority of imports come from?
It certainly is not from the EU |
Isle of Sheppey?
Felixstowe and Southampton seem to be the two exceptions where non-EU trade is more important than EU trade (both in terms of imports and exports). No doubt you'll know why, but I assume it relates to the type(s) of goods going through those ports.
For most other ports EU trade is the larger market (as it is for the the UK total overall). |  |
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| brexit on 14:17 - Oct 19 with 2077 views | Darth_Koont |
| brexit on 14:12 - Oct 19 by baxterbasics |
You are right of course to separate the need for more customs clerks (and expertise) and actual trade movements, a difference I didn't clarify in my post.
The main reason I think Felixstowe (and other similar ports) will see more traffic is because those who can will try and avoid Dover, because that's where the problems are going to be. |
Yes, I'm sure you're right re: Dover.
And nothing particularly against Kent (The Garden of England, my @rse) but if their loss is Suffolk's gain then that's a silver lining. | |
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| brexit on 14:17 - Oct 19 with 2076 views | baxterbasics |
| brexit on 14:07 - Oct 19 by Ryorry |
Excellent post - except that when you say "We are the ones who want to throw away membership", what you really mean is "The Tory party are the ones who want to throw away membership" ... |
Not really, those well up for Brexit consist of: some Tory MPs, lots of Tory voters, Corbyn and his crew, working class Labour voters. That about covers it. | |
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