| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated 09:17 - Nov 15 with 9377 views | chicoazul |
hahahahaha
What's next boyos, Gen Elec or 2nd Referendum? |  |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:02 - Nov 15 with 1636 views | WeWereZombies |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 10:57 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
Luckily I'm nothing to do with the Potteries although I did go once and that was enough.
As someone who voted to and wants to remain I still take issue with this casual "abuse" of statistics. Votes are not based on the people eligible to vote, it's based on the people who do vote. If people don't vote they have lost that right and shouldn't be used to scale figures in a favourable way to your view. It's an abuse of statistics in my opinion and doesn't help the remain argument.
Given your criteria and the general turnout you'd never have a mandate on any vote.
SB |
Casual "abuse" of statistics, ha. It's basically arithmetic and the implications are clear. If there was a minority of not much more than a third voting to Leave how does that become the will of the people? |  |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:03 - Nov 15 with 1635 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 10:59 - Nov 15 by footers |
Sorry, maybe I should have explained myself better, but I think a BoJo, for example, would want a GE to be given a clear mandate on no deal. Obviously this backfired on May last time but would secure the hardline Brexiteers the no deal they want and the time to build their project around it.
If they believe that Corbyn is so weak, recognise that their majority is unworkable in the long-run and think most people want no deal, I could see the potential of a GE if I were a Tory.
Edit: The simplistic electoral appeal of 'We've all fkcng had enough, we're leaving. End of.' would be v powerful imo and a much better carrot than what May offered last time around. [Post edited 15 Nov 2018 11:01]
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Bojo or whoever is the next leader will only call an election if they believe they can win convincingly.
BTW the next PM won't be Bojo. More likely to be Jezza.
Jezza Hunt. |  |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:06 - Nov 15 with 1622 views | footers |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:03 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Bojo or whoever is the next leader will only call an election if they believe they can win convincingly.
BTW the next PM won't be Bojo. More likely to be Jezza.
Jezza Hunt. |
The Tories? Hubris?
Agreed, there are far more likely candidates than that blond berk. I'm especially worried about Javid or Gove. Tax haven status, here we come! |  |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:13 - Nov 15 with 1599 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:06 - Nov 15 by footers |
The Tories? Hubris?
Agreed, there are far more likely candidates than that blond berk. I'm especially worried about Javid or Gove. Tax haven status, here we come! |
If I was still a member then I'd vote for Gove, who has impressed people on all sides of the political spectrum in his stits at Justice and Environment. | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:16 - Nov 15 with 1584 views | footers |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:13 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue |
If I was still a member then I'd vote for Gove, who has impressed people on all sides of the political spectrum in his stits at Justice and Environment. |
He's pleasantly surprised me at Environment, has to be said. Can't be forgiven for his time as Education Sec, tho.
On the plus side, GB, if there were a GE they could ditch the DUP so you could go back! | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:21 - Nov 15 with 1570 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:16 - Nov 15 by footers |
He's pleasantly surprised me at Environment, has to be said. Can't be forgiven for his time as Education Sec, tho.
On the plus side, GB, if there were a GE they could ditch the DUP so you could go back! |
It would probably take a bit more than simply ditching the DUP. They would also have to hold an enquiry into institutionalized Islamophobia and root out the racists.
Back to the leadership. If Bojo was going to mount a bid for the leadership then he'd be on his feet right now with a "Geoffrey Howe" moment. He sitting on his bench doing nothing.
I honestly don't belive those who want May out can decide on who should take her place.
Edit. Mogg has just put the knife in. [Post edited 15 Nov 2018 11:24]
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:26 - Nov 15 with 1562 views | m14_blue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:21 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue |
It would probably take a bit more than simply ditching the DUP. They would also have to hold an enquiry into institutionalized Islamophobia and root out the racists.
Back to the leadership. If Bojo was going to mount a bid for the leadership then he'd be on his feet right now with a "Geoffrey Howe" moment. He sitting on his bench doing nothing.
I honestly don't belive those who want May out can decide on who should take her place.
Edit. Mogg has just put the knife in. [Post edited 15 Nov 2018 11:24]
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And therein lies the rub.
No one knows what to do next, it’s an impossible situation with both main parties hopelessly divided and even more hopelessly led. May is useless but realistically none of the potential candidates have any chance of fixing this mess.
I have no idea where it will end. |  | | |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:32 - Nov 15 with 1553 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:26 - Nov 15 by m14_blue |
And therein lies the rub.
No one knows what to do next, it’s an impossible situation with both main parties hopelessly divided and even more hopelessly led. May is useless but realistically none of the potential candidates have any chance of fixing this mess.
I have no idea where it will end. |
My view is that there is no other choice but to remain in the EU as we just don't have the calibre of politician able enough to negotiate a successful withdrawal.
I wonder if Gove is clever enough to negotiate continued membership under more favourable terms? The sort of terms that Cameron failed to negotiate but which Merkel regretted not supporting once the referendum vote came in. | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:33 - Nov 15 with 1553 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:16 - Nov 15 by footers |
He's pleasantly surprised me at Environment, has to be said. Can't be forgiven for his time as Education Sec, tho.
On the plus side, GB, if there were a GE they could ditch the DUP so you could go back! |
Couple of easy wins and he's fooled everyone.
- overruling council decisions to ban fracking
- lots of noise about supporting renewable energy, but subsidies for householders are being cut and there's a pause on subsidies for any new schemes until 2025
- lots of noise about ending fossil fuel subsidies, yet we're the worse in the G7 for hiding subsidies through other payments. We pay £11bn in subsidies to fossil fuel companies. (edit - for context, out total commitment to low carbon subsidies and feed in tariffs is about £8bn a year and this may include nuclear, not sure).
And the list goes on. He's doing more for business than the environment, and most of what comes out of his department seems to be greenwash.
That said, he seems relatively, smart, shrewd and hard working. I don't doubt he's n effective politician (he manages to get people believing one thing whilst doing the opposite), but I wouldn't say he's been good in the Environment role. Unless we are defining 'good' these days as not making very public c0ck ups. [Post edited 15 Nov 2018 11:36]
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:38 - Nov 15 with 1542 views | J2BLUE |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:21 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue |
It would probably take a bit more than simply ditching the DUP. They would also have to hold an enquiry into institutionalized Islamophobia and root out the racists.
Back to the leadership. If Bojo was going to mount a bid for the leadership then he'd be on his feet right now with a "Geoffrey Howe" moment. He sitting on his bench doing nothing.
I honestly don't belive those who want May out can decide on who should take her place.
Edit. Mogg has just put the knife in. [Post edited 15 Nov 2018 11:24]
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She should have told JRM to do it. Stop threatening it and do it. |  |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:39 - Nov 15 with 1542 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 09:58 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Has anyone actually seen Corbyn lately? His main tactic seems to be hiding away whilst everything collapses around him. |
Yep, as usual. That's a very effective tactic for someone in the shadows. Not do good when you need someone to step out of the shadows though!
I almost believe Corbyn (or rather the Labour membership and unions) are to blame for a lot of today's political mess. Had they selected an electable leader, we could be in a very different place now. At the very least they could have been better at holding May to account, but more likely they'd have romped the last election. | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:42 - Nov 15 with 1530 views | StokieBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:02 - Nov 15 by WeWereZombies |
Casual "abuse" of statistics, ha. It's basically arithmetic and the implications are clear. If there was a minority of not much more than a third voting to Leave how does that become the will of the people? |
It may be basic arithmetic but it's not how votes are processed.
It's a way to manipulate statistics to make something look stronger as I'm sure you know.
If you don't vote you're not included. You are making an assumption about those votes when actually they are void.
It's a poor argument. There are so many good ones this bad one annoys me. You can make the same argument about most elections if you don't agree with the result given the normal turnout.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:45 - Nov 15 with 1521 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:39 - Nov 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Yep, as usual. That's a very effective tactic for someone in the shadows. Not do good when you need someone to step out of the shadows though!
I almost believe Corbyn (or rather the Labour membership and unions) are to blame for a lot of today's political mess. Had they selected an electable leader, we could be in a very different place now. At the very least they could have been better at holding May to account, but more likely they'd have romped the last election. |
What a crock of nonsense.
The Tories called the referendum and the Tories have royally fooked it up. There is no-one to blame for this country's current mess than the Tory government. Trying to shift the blame is shameful. |  |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:53 - Nov 15 with 1503 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:45 - Nov 15 by BrixtonBlue |
What a crock of nonsense.
The Tories called the referendum and the Tories have royally fooked it up. There is no-one to blame for this country's current mess than the Tory government. Trying to shift the blame is shameful. |
That is like a qualified surgeon looking down at a dying patient, refusing to operate on him and saying "well you chose to go with the other doctor so it's your fault you are dying"
Jezza is doing what's best for Jezza and not what is best for the country. | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:56 - Nov 15 with 1486 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:38 - Nov 15 by J2BLUE |
She should have told JRM to do it. Stop threatening it and do it. |
There is the option to do a John Major and resign as leader of the Conservative party whilst staying in the role of Prime Minister. A case of put up or shut up.
If she does that she can wrong foot her critics who would then have to scramble around to find a candidate to support. | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:58 - Nov 15 with 1474 views | J2BLUE |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:56 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue |
There is the option to do a John Major and resign as leader of the Conservative party whilst staying in the role of Prime Minister. A case of put up or shut up.
If she does that she can wrong foot her critics who would then have to scramble around to find a candidate to support. |
Rees-Mogg will be supreme leader.
I wonder where I should send your tenner  | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:00 - Nov 15 with 1467 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:45 - Nov 15 by BrixtonBlue |
What a crock of nonsense.
The Tories called the referendum and the Tories have royally fooked it up. There is no-one to blame for this country's current mess than the Tory government. Trying to shift the blame is shameful. |
I agree with all of that. That's why I used the word "almost" (playing on the common complaint that it's always Corbyn's fault). He's not to blame for the Tories bad government, but he is to blame for not mobilising a united opposition. The Tories are responsible for their own failing, but he's letting them get away with it.
Labour screwed up big time selecting him (and Ed before him) imo. Both have proven to be non-electable so far. In Corbyn's case there's just far too much baggage and even if you like his different approach (and I think we do need to go towards some of the things that were in their manifesto), it's all completely irrelevant if he can't secure a majority at the ballot box. | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:01 - Nov 15 with 1455 views | footers |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:39 - Nov 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Yep, as usual. That's a very effective tactic for someone in the shadows. Not do good when you need someone to step out of the shadows though!
I almost believe Corbyn (or rather the Labour membership and unions) are to blame for a lot of today's political mess. Had they selected an electable leader, we could be in a very different place now. At the very least they could have been better at holding May to account, but more likely they'd have romped the last election. |
The Tories being so weak as to cave into the right wing tabloid press and UKIP are to blame for this mess. Since when did Dacre and Murdoch run the country? Best ask Cameron. Strong PMs do what's right, not what they're told. | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:05 - Nov 15 with 1446 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:01 - Nov 15 by footers |
The Tories being so weak as to cave into the right wing tabloid press and UKIP are to blame for this mess. Since when did Dacre and Murdoch run the country? Best ask Cameron. Strong PMs do what's right, not what they're told. |
Agreed. But Corbyn, as leader of the opposition, has a responsibility to challenge the government. I don't think he's doing that effectively. [Post edited 15 Nov 2018 12:05]
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:06 - Nov 15 with 1438 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:53 - Nov 15 by GlasgowBlue |
That is like a qualified surgeon looking down at a dying patient, refusing to operate on him and saying "well you chose to go with the other doctor so it's your fault you are dying"
Jezza is doing what's best for Jezza and not what is best for the country. |
It's nothing like that at all. Jezza isn't in the government.
In your flawed analogy the Tories are still operating on the dying patient and Corbyn is looking on behind a locked door.
Blaming Corbyn for this mess is like blaming a fireman, who isn't even attending the fire, for the fire. | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:07 - Nov 15 with 1435 views | StokieBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 11:38 - Nov 15 by J2BLUE |
She should have told JRM to do it. Stop threatening it and do it. |
I think she might be done. If JRM is going that far (he's never explicitly threatened before) then they must feel they have the support.
His remark was pretty savage.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:08 - Nov 15 with 1430 views | sparks |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:06 - Nov 15 by BrixtonBlue |
It's nothing like that at all. Jezza isn't in the government.
In your flawed analogy the Tories are still operating on the dying patient and Corbyn is looking on behind a locked door.
Blaming Corbyn for this mess is like blaming a fireman, who isn't even attending the fire, for the fire. |
Its more like blaming an off duty fireman who isnt sure if he still likes being a fireman, as a result of pyromaniac tendencies which he can't shift from his head, for watching gleefully (but not offering to assist) as the fire engulfs the building with people still inside it. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:10 - Nov 15 with 1429 views | footers |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:05 - Nov 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Agreed. But Corbyn, as leader of the opposition, has a responsibility to challenge the government. I don't think he's doing that effectively. [Post edited 15 Nov 2018 12:05]
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I don't think he's done too bad a job holding the government to account on domestic policy. The problem is Brexit is a poisioned chalice for whoever takes it. If May/Corbyn says anything they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. I'm quite happy for Brexit to remain a Tory-made Tory problem. Let them pick up the pieces and shoulder the burden.
Aside from joining initially, there hasn't been a similar situation in British politics as far as I'm aware. It's a complete hospital pass. | |
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| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:11 - Nov 15 with 1427 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Man Who Negotiated Deal Resigns Over Terms Of Deal He Negotiated on 12:00 - Nov 15 by Swansea_Blue |
I agree with all of that. That's why I used the word "almost" (playing on the common complaint that it's always Corbyn's fault). He's not to blame for the Tories bad government, but he is to blame for not mobilising a united opposition. The Tories are responsible for their own failing, but he's letting them get away with it.
Labour screwed up big time selecting him (and Ed before him) imo. Both have proven to be non-electable so far. In Corbyn's case there's just far too much baggage and even if you like his different approach (and I think we do need to go towards some of the things that were in their manifesto), it's all completely irrelevant if he can't secure a majority at the ballot box. |
"but he's letting them get away with it."
Are they getting away with it?!? Really?!?!
As for securing a majority - he took a hopeless party well adrift and brought them closer than anyone could've imagined at the last election. That's all we can judge him on at the ballot box so far. | |
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