| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:05 - Dec 11 with 5135 views | monytowbray |
Why Corbyn specifically? He's not in power. |  |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:14 - Dec 11 with 5122 views | Swansea_Blue |
Without wanting to trivialise what is obviously a very important issue, because the result was anomalous just for the political sphere, and assuming the vast majority of British Jews won't have contact with said political sphere, can we be confident that the views in the poll reflect actual experiences rather the repeated messages in the press or political bias amongst the participants? |  |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:15 - Dec 11 with 5122 views | JakeITFC |
I’m really sure you deeply care for the cause of completely eradicating anti-semitism, but I think that message would be stronger if you weren’t trying to bash the Labour Party every single time you post links of this ilk. [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 9:24]
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:22 - Dec 11 with 5093 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:15 - Dec 11 by JakeITFC |
I’m really sure you deeply care for the cause of completely eradicating anti-semitism, but I think that message would be stronger if you weren’t trying to bash the Labour Party every single time you post links of this ilk. [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 9:24]
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I think you will find I have linked what is reported in the Guardian. And they have quoted the European commissioner for justice, Věra Jourová who only mentions one British politician.
Perhaps you should take issue with her rather than me. Then again, perhaps you should ask yourself why she has only mentioned Mr Corbyn.
I have no wish for a ten pager so won’t comment any further. I have posted the Guardian article. Make of it what you wish. [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 9:37]
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:36 - Dec 11 with 5067 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:22 - Dec 11 by GlasgowBlue |
I think you will find I have linked what is reported in the Guardian. And they have quoted the European commissioner for justice, Věra Jourová who only mentions one British politician.
Perhaps you should take issue with her rather than me. Then again, perhaps you should ask yourself why she has only mentioned Mr Corbyn.
I have no wish for a ten pager so won’t comment any further. I have posted the Guardian article. Make of it what you wish. [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 9:37]
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With the relentless campaigning of various pressure groups it would be surprising if perceptions nad not been affected......strange you highlight the Corbyn angle when it references so much more such as.....
"In France, 95% of Jews believe antisemitism is a very or fairly big problem, up from 85% when the poll was last run six years ago. Nine out of 10 Jews in France say they had faced expressions of hostility on the street."
.....but that was probably Corbyn too. |  |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:40 - Dec 11 with 5049 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:36 - Dec 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
With the relentless campaigning of various pressure groups it would be surprising if perceptions nad not been affected......strange you highlight the Corbyn angle when it references so much more such as.....
"In France, 95% of Jews believe antisemitism is a very or fairly big problem, up from 85% when the poll was last run six years ago. Nine out of 10 Jews in France say they had faced expressions of hostility on the street."
.....but that was probably Corbyn too. |
‘The results for the UK were peculiar, however, in the high level of concern expressed about the political sphere
There isn’t much you or I can do with regards to the French elections but we can make sure we don’t elect an antisemite to the position of Prime Minister in the United Kingdom. | |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:46 - Dec 11 with 5036 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:40 - Dec 11 by GlasgowBlue |
‘The results for the UK were peculiar, however, in the high level of concern expressed about the political sphere
There isn’t much you or I can do with regards to the French elections but we can make sure we don’t elect an antisemite to the position of Prime Minister in the United Kingdom. |
......but with the Summer news agenda this is meaningless, of course perception would be as described.....in other parts of Europe, unfortunately, experience is actual and "on the street." | |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:51 - Dec 11 with 5021 views | StokieBlue |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:46 - Dec 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
......but with the Summer news agenda this is meaningless, of course perception would be as described.....in other parts of Europe, unfortunately, experience is actual and "on the street." |
"Summer news agenda" basically gives you a hand wave over anything which you don't like.
It's not a valid argument in my opinion. Why would a European agency care or follow a UK news agenda.
SB [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 9:52]
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:55 - Dec 11 with 5011 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:51 - Dec 11 by StokieBlue |
"Summer news agenda" basically gives you a hand wave over anything which you don't like.
It's not a valid argument in my opinion. Why would a European agency care or follow a UK news agenda.
SB [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 9:52]
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So you do not believe that respondents answers were in any way shaped by what they saw and heard on the news? | |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:57 - Dec 11 with 5004 views | monytowbray |
I think the best way to deal with these threads is post this and walk away. It's a problem for sure, but it's not exclusive to one party. | |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 10:02 - Dec 11 with 4986 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:40 - Dec 11 by GlasgowBlue |
‘The results for the UK were peculiar, however, in the high level of concern expressed about the political sphere
There isn’t much you or I can do with regards to the French elections but we can make sure we don’t elect an antisemite to the position of Prime Minister in the United Kingdom. |
What is most disturbing is the fact across the EU the Jewish community appears to be living in fear. The number who fear they may have to emigrate is worrying, incidentally the figure for the UK was below average. Where on earth are they going to emigrate to, certainly not Germany or France.
The comments about Corbyn are simply EU medling . Not sure fear of him being antisemitic comes into anyone's top three reasons why he shouldn't be PM. |  |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 10:09 - Dec 11 with 4953 views | BlueBadger |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 10:02 - Dec 11 by Pinewoodblue |
What is most disturbing is the fact across the EU the Jewish community appears to be living in fear. The number who fear they may have to emigrate is worrying, incidentally the figure for the UK was below average. Where on earth are they going to emigrate to, certainly not Germany or France.
The comments about Corbyn are simply EU medling . Not sure fear of him being antisemitic comes into anyone's top three reasons why he shouldn't be PM. |
For what it's worth, Corbyn strikes me as taking a position similar to Farage when he was leading UKP when it comes to the more unsavoury element in his party. He makes the right noises when it's brought to media attention but ultimately does very little(Ken Livingstone being the classic example) because thsi nasty element make up a significant(albeit not majority) or acts slowly portion of his support base.
And for me, that's not good enough. Frankly, I expect a half-arsed approach from a UKIP leader towards bigotry in t heir ranks, I don't from a Labour leader. [Post edited 11 Dec 2018 10:10]
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 10:15 - Dec 11 with 4942 views | StokieBlue |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:57 - Dec 11 by monytowbray |
I think the best way to deal with these threads is post this and walk away. It's a problem for sure, but it's not exclusive to one party. |
Why is that poll more definitive than the other one or any of the other polls done over the last year?
It’s also from 2017.
I’m not saying it’s not accurate, just what justification is for that poll to be the definitive one?
SB | |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 10:28 - Dec 11 with 4922 views | CoachRob |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 10:02 - Dec 11 by Pinewoodblue |
What is most disturbing is the fact across the EU the Jewish community appears to be living in fear. The number who fear they may have to emigrate is worrying, incidentally the figure for the UK was below average. Where on earth are they going to emigrate to, certainly not Germany or France.
The comments about Corbyn are simply EU medling . Not sure fear of him being antisemitic comes into anyone's top three reasons why he shouldn't be PM. |
Glassers have been called out many times on here for quantitative errors, not understanding the problems of qualitative surveys and extrapolating nonsense from data. The Jewish population trend is downwards since the 1955 census. Raheem Sterling stated the British (hard) right wing media is to blame for fuelling racism and the hard right has history against it on the issue of anti-Semitism. |  | | |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 10:46 - Dec 11 with 4887 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 10:15 - Dec 11 by StokieBlue |
Why is that poll more definitive than the other one or any of the other polls done over the last year?
It’s also from 2017.
I’m not saying it’s not accurate, just what justification is for that poll to be the definitive one?
SB |
If you stop and think about the information Callie's had provided approaches the issue from a different angle. It highlights the fact that there are differences by age, politic persuasion and attitude to Brexit.
What is concerning is that you would think as us oldies die off the overall problem would diminish. Sadly it is growing. I am part of a generation that has attitudes younger people disapprove of, we are quite simple not politically correct enough.
See Corbyn's comment about English irony not being understood. | |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 11:04 - Dec 11 with 4847 views | sparks |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 10:15 - Dec 11 by StokieBlue |
Why is that poll more definitive than the other one or any of the other polls done over the last year?
It’s also from 2017.
I’m not saying it’s not accurate, just what justification is for that poll to be the definitive one?
SB |
Id want to see the list of antisemitic statements said to be endorsed or not endorsed, upon which that graph is based. In some quarters criticising Israel is thought to qualify... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 11:34 - Dec 11 with 4806 views | monytowbray |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 11:04 - Dec 11 by sparks |
Id want to see the list of antisemitic statements said to be endorsed or not endorsed, upon which that graph is based. In some quarters criticising Israel is thought to qualify... |
The link the image is from is here...
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-antisemitism-political-parties
"The report’s findings are based on a representative sample of 1,614 British adults, who were asked for their views on seven statements about Jewish people.
The statements included stereotypes and tropes that are often associated with antisemitism, including “British Jewish people chase money more than other British people” and “Jewish people talk about the Holocaust just to further their political agenda.”
Respondents were also asked about their political affiliations. Combining those two sets of data allowed the report’s authors to produce the following graph, which we’ve seen doing the rounds on Twitter as Labour’s antisemitism debate rumbles on."
No full list of questions sadly, however it's still an interesting read.
I'm 100% against anti-semitism, but the continual single finger pointed at one party/person when it's clearly not an exclusive issue, nor from what I am aware is encouraged via policies (for example saying UKIP and views on non-British people living/working in the UK) is getting a bit dull. | |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 12:10 - Dec 15 with 4582 views | jaseitfc |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 09:57 - Dec 11 by monytowbray |
I think the best way to deal with these threads is post this and walk away. It's a problem for sure, but it's not exclusive to one party. |
Alarming thing here is that endorsements of anti Semitic statements are higher among progressive voters, which aids my feeling that many who label themselves liberal are not at all, & just label themselves that as its the in thing. |  | | |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 12:19 - Dec 15 with 4565 views | DanTheMan |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 12:10 - Dec 15 by jaseitfc |
Alarming thing here is that endorsements of anti Semitic statements are higher among progressive voters, which aids my feeling that many who label themselves liberal are not at all, & just label themselves that as its the in thing. |
Are you sure you're reading those graphs correctly? |  |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 12:41 - Dec 15 with 4503 views | sparks |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 11:34 - Dec 11 by monytowbray |
The link the image is from is here...
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-antisemitism-political-parties
"The report’s findings are based on a representative sample of 1,614 British adults, who were asked for their views on seven statements about Jewish people.
The statements included stereotypes and tropes that are often associated with antisemitism, including “British Jewish people chase money more than other British people” and “Jewish people talk about the Holocaust just to further their political agenda.”
Respondents were also asked about their political affiliations. Combining those two sets of data allowed the report’s authors to produce the following graph, which we’ve seen doing the rounds on Twitter as Labour’s antisemitism debate rumbles on."
No full list of questions sadly, however it's still an interesting read.
I'm 100% against anti-semitism, but the continual single finger pointed at one party/person when it's clearly not an exclusive issue, nor from what I am aware is encouraged via policies (for example saying UKIP and views on non-British people living/working in the UK) is getting a bit dull. |
Wordings below apparently. There are some interesting nuanced issues with a number of the statements imo. Can you definitively say that a particular person who has a degree of sympathy for no.2 is "anti semitic"?
Objectively (and taking it away from the specifics of jewishness), if a person has split loyalities of some kind, then one has split loyalties. Did we wonder about Owen Hargreaves loyalties a little bit when he grew up in Germany, spoke like an American and played for England? Doesnt make you think they are bad people, or prejudiced you against them. Doesnt even make you think they are disloyal- just that you recognise that there are two pulls for their loyalty.
Also, there is a real danger in simply discussing judaism as if it were just a racial thing. Frankly, many (most?) jewish people are not even obviously identifiable as such in everyday life. But there is the relgious element. So when one asks questions about whether a religous group thinks it is better than other people- and that religous group claims to be (for instance) god's chosen people, or to have the right answer and everyone else is wrong, there seems to me to be a difficulty.
Probably far too nuanced for any sensible debate on TWTD, but there it is.
1.
2016 and 2017 wording: “British Jewish
people chase money more than other
British people
.”
2015 wording: “Jews chase money
more than other British people.
”
2.
2016 and 2017 wording: “Having a
connection to Israel makes Jewish
people less loyal to Britain than other
British people
.”
2015 wording: “Jews' loyalty to Israel
makes them less loyal to Britain than
other British people.
”
3.
2016 and 2017 wording: “Jewish people
consider themselves to be better than
other British people
.”
2015 wording: “Jews think they are
better than other people.
”
4.
2016 and 2017 wording: “Compared to
other groups, Jewish people have too
much power in the media
.”
2015 wording: “Jews have too much
power in the media.
”
5.
2016 and 2017 wording: “Jewish people
talk about the Holocaust just to further
their political agenda
.”
2015 wording: “Jews talk about the
Holocaust too much in order to get
sympathy.
”
6.
2016 and 2017 wording: “Jewish people
can be trusted just as much as other
British people in business
.”
2015 wording: “In business, Jews are
not as honest as most people.
”
7.
2016 and 2017 wording: “I am just as
open to having Jewish friends as I am to
having friends from other sections of
British society
.”
2015 wording: “I would be unhappy if a
family member married a Jew.
” | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 12:46 - Dec 15 with 4478 views | Herbivore |
It's odd that the OP didn't start a thread about the anti-Semitic chanting at the Chelsea game the other night, but then that would be fairly tricky to pin on Corbyn.
As for the report, the rise in anti-Semitism is certainly very depressing and need to be addressed through proper debate and engagement rather than attempted political point scoring. |  |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 12:55 - Dec 15 with 4442 views | LeagueOne |
That title - has the world forgotten the second World War? When did the record begin, last week? |  |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 13:07 - Dec 15 with 4410 views | Lord_Lucan |
Listen GB, I think you're ok but you are in danger of becoming a "Callis"
Personally I can't see how Britain is anywhere near the top of the list, it's just that we are more open with things.
It's a bit like the reason France didn't get Mad Cows Disease - they buried the cows and never told anyone. |  |
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| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 13:07 - Dec 15 with 4495 views | jaseitfc |
| Britain has worst record for antisemitism in Europe says report on 12:19 - Dec 15 by DanTheMan |
Are you sure you're reading those graphs correctly? |
Red face! Did not see the "not" ... I'll just shut up and sit the rest of this one out | | | |
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