| Independent Group 15:26 - Feb 18 with 40386 views | ZedRodgers |
What do we know so far?
1. They won't stand a by-election and will abandon their constituencies for more 'winable' seats at the next election.
2. They won't reveal anything about their funding and have set themselves up as a private company to avoid publicly declaring anything.
3. Their website is sh1te.
4. They've said what they're against but nobody can name a single policy they are for.
5. They've been endorsed by Katie Hopkins and Pickles.
6. Angela Smith was only 5 mins into BBC Politics appearance today talking about leaving due to racism before she described non-white people as having a funny tinge.
Integrity indeed. I'm delighted that the politically homeless are now able to come in from the cold. |  |
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| Independent Group on 13:37 - Feb 21 with 1985 views | giant_stow |
| Independent Group on 13:34 - Feb 21 by ZedRodgers |
What opposition?
What are they opposing and how are they going about opposing it? |
I feel like I'm walking into a trap here, but hey ho: they are opposing how both parties are handling brexit, by leaving their parties. |  |
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| Independent Group on 13:45 - Feb 21 with 1967 views | itfcjoe |
| Independent Group on 13:20 - Feb 21 by ZedRodgers |
Very weak argument. Have seen a lot of voting against the whip over Brexit.
Would still like to know what their view on Brexit is that you agree with, if that's all you have to offer. |
That they are actually against Brexit, and they are against how it is being handled by their respective party leaders.
May - lurching further and further right and playing to the ERG and the DUP
Corbyn - enabling this Tory Brexit, just going on about a GE which is never going to happen rather than actually having a policy on Brexit which agrees with the membership |  |
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| Independent Group on 13:46 - Feb 21 with 1956 views | StokieBlue |
| Independent Group on 13:27 - Feb 21 by ZedRodgers |
Of course you're perfectly entitled to say neither Tory or Labour policies as they stand are something you would like. I just wondered what it is about this group that you do like or approve of. Not asking for a full manifesto, just something more than a staunch opposition to Labour.
Praising their intentions without saying what those intentions are seems a fair way from a sensible debate to me too. |
I'm sure most would agree it's a far more sensible debate than reeling off a list of insults.
I've not cited staunch opposition to Labour, you've even said I stated opposition to Tory and Labour policies in my post so not sure what you're trying to achieve. Your sole aim now seems to be to point out that they don't have policies so why do people want to hear what they have to say.
Many posters have addressed this so I'm not sure why you persist.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Independent Group on 14:20 - Feb 21 with 1910 views | ZedRodgers |
You’re all suggesting that Labour have sat back and done nothing to oppose the Tory’s brexit, whilst this group are going to offer an actual opposition.
If that’s your opinion, then at least say how you would want them to go about doing that.
If you want to ignore the fact that there would be no meaningful vote on the deal, no financial or legal advice publicly available, plus all the other contempt of parliament things that have happened along the way if Labour hadn’t opposed the Brexit the Tories have tried to force upon us, then that’s up to you.
It’s not difficult for me to admit that Labour want a general election for reasons beyond Brexit. It’s hardly a secret agenda. Can’t you admit that this group of MPs stating they wouldn’t support a vote of no confidence against the government in the face of a no deal Brexit to force a general election for their own self-interests is the exact definition of enabling Brexit?
itfcjoe - Labour’s Brexit policy was decided by the membership, so how are they ignoring it?
giant_ulla - I was asking how they were going to oppose Brexit. “By leaving their parties” doesn’t answer that.
stokie - staunch opposition to Labour was specifically in reference to you singling our the Labour manifesto. Happy to acknoeldge you also said Tories and Labour.
Still no suggestions from anybody on what they agree with about the group’s position on Brexit other than they’re “opposing it”. I saw a Soubry interview yesterday where she said she had suggested a single market / customs union approach to May in order to win support of the house. It seemed remarkably similar to Labour’s EU-supported approach. I’m sure we all know Chuka’s position on sacrificing the single market and customs union to end free movement.
If it’s now a 2nd referendum she wants, it will take some explaining as to why she voted against an amendment which would have paved the way for one. With all of this in mind, how can any of you possibly say that this group are offering any coherent opposition on Brexit? | |
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| Independent Group on 14:21 - Feb 21 with 1908 views | pbishop1799 |
I am deeply suspicious of Chuka Umunna, and anything he's involved with. Seems like a self-serving plotter to me. Smarmy as hell.
I'm also not convinced by this anti-antisemitism narrative either...
No doubt there are some know-nothings in the party, whose anti-Israel views have mutated into something sinister. But 'institutionally antisemitic'? I don't think so.
A very convenient stick to beat Mr Corbyn with. I'm not a supporter of his, but I do admire his fortitude. All these smears and attacks, from the media, from within his own party; he's survived them all.
God forbid we have an actual Socialist in charge of the Socialist party. I'd go as far as saying that these Blairite 'rebels' were an alien presence within Labour in the first place.
Unquestionably, they should stand for reelection. Obviously - they won't. [Post edited 21 Feb 2019 14:23]
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| Independent Group on 14:36 - Feb 21 with 1879 views | pickles110564 |
| Independent Group on 14:21 - Feb 21 by pbishop1799 |
I am deeply suspicious of Chuka Umunna, and anything he's involved with. Seems like a self-serving plotter to me. Smarmy as hell.
I'm also not convinced by this anti-antisemitism narrative either...
No doubt there are some know-nothings in the party, whose anti-Israel views have mutated into something sinister. But 'institutionally antisemitic'? I don't think so.
A very convenient stick to beat Mr Corbyn with. I'm not a supporter of his, but I do admire his fortitude. All these smears and attacks, from the media, from within his own party; he's survived them all.
God forbid we have an actual Socialist in charge of the Socialist party. I'd go as far as saying that these Blairite 'rebels' were an alien presence within Labour in the first place.
Unquestionably, they should stand for reelection. Obviously - they won't. [Post edited 21 Feb 2019 14:23]
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Have a look at Chuka's face when he was in the live studio when the brexit result came in, you could see how angry he was and could not believe what had happened, that is the problem wit you Zed and other politicians, you as so far removed from what normal people want or think. |  | | |
| Independent Group on 14:39 - Feb 21 with 1872 views | sparks |
| Independent Group on 14:20 - Feb 21 by ZedRodgers |
You’re all suggesting that Labour have sat back and done nothing to oppose the Tory’s brexit, whilst this group are going to offer an actual opposition.
If that’s your opinion, then at least say how you would want them to go about doing that.
If you want to ignore the fact that there would be no meaningful vote on the deal, no financial or legal advice publicly available, plus all the other contempt of parliament things that have happened along the way if Labour hadn’t opposed the Brexit the Tories have tried to force upon us, then that’s up to you.
It’s not difficult for me to admit that Labour want a general election for reasons beyond Brexit. It’s hardly a secret agenda. Can’t you admit that this group of MPs stating they wouldn’t support a vote of no confidence against the government in the face of a no deal Brexit to force a general election for their own self-interests is the exact definition of enabling Brexit?
itfcjoe - Labour’s Brexit policy was decided by the membership, so how are they ignoring it?
giant_ulla - I was asking how they were going to oppose Brexit. “By leaving their parties” doesn’t answer that.
stokie - staunch opposition to Labour was specifically in reference to you singling our the Labour manifesto. Happy to acknoeldge you also said Tories and Labour.
Still no suggestions from anybody on what they agree with about the group’s position on Brexit other than they’re “opposing it”. I saw a Soubry interview yesterday where she said she had suggested a single market / customs union approach to May in order to win support of the house. It seemed remarkably similar to Labour’s EU-supported approach. I’m sure we all know Chuka’s position on sacrificing the single market and customs union to end free movement.
If it’s now a 2nd referendum she wants, it will take some explaining as to why she voted against an amendment which would have paved the way for one. With all of this in mind, how can any of you possibly say that this group are offering any coherent opposition on Brexit? |
You seem intent on attacking a newly formed, small group of MPs rather than addressing the reasons they split away from your preferred party.
Odd that. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Independent Group on 14:40 - Feb 21 with 1867 views | ZedRodgers |
| Independent Group on 14:36 - Feb 21 by pickles110564 |
Have a look at Chuka's face when he was in the live studio when the brexit result came in, you could see how angry he was and could not believe what had happened, that is the problem wit you Zed and other politicians, you as so far removed from what normal people want or think. |
Chuka's reaction to Brexit is the problem with me?
If this is what normal people think then maybe I am removed from it. | |
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| Independent Group on 14:41 - Feb 21 with 1862 views | footers |
| Independent Group on 14:36 - Feb 21 by pickles110564 |
Have a look at Chuka's face when he was in the live studio when the brexit result came in, you could see how angry he was and could not believe what had happened, that is the problem wit you Zed and other politicians, you as so far removed from what normal people want or think. |
Lemme fix that for you:
"...that is the problem wit you Zed and other politicians, you as so far removed from what *I*want or think." |  |
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| Independent Group on 14:48 - Feb 21 with 1847 views | giant_stow |
| Independent Group on 14:20 - Feb 21 by ZedRodgers |
You’re all suggesting that Labour have sat back and done nothing to oppose the Tory’s brexit, whilst this group are going to offer an actual opposition.
If that’s your opinion, then at least say how you would want them to go about doing that.
If you want to ignore the fact that there would be no meaningful vote on the deal, no financial or legal advice publicly available, plus all the other contempt of parliament things that have happened along the way if Labour hadn’t opposed the Brexit the Tories have tried to force upon us, then that’s up to you.
It’s not difficult for me to admit that Labour want a general election for reasons beyond Brexit. It’s hardly a secret agenda. Can’t you admit that this group of MPs stating they wouldn’t support a vote of no confidence against the government in the face of a no deal Brexit to force a general election for their own self-interests is the exact definition of enabling Brexit?
itfcjoe - Labour’s Brexit policy was decided by the membership, so how are they ignoring it?
giant_ulla - I was asking how they were going to oppose Brexit. “By leaving their parties” doesn’t answer that.
stokie - staunch opposition to Labour was specifically in reference to you singling our the Labour manifesto. Happy to acknoeldge you also said Tories and Labour.
Still no suggestions from anybody on what they agree with about the group’s position on Brexit other than they’re “opposing it”. I saw a Soubry interview yesterday where she said she had suggested a single market / customs union approach to May in order to win support of the house. It seemed remarkably similar to Labour’s EU-supported approach. I’m sure we all know Chuka’s position on sacrificing the single market and customs union to end free movement.
If it’s now a 2nd referendum she wants, it will take some explaining as to why she voted against an amendment which would have paved the way for one. With all of this in mind, how can any of you possibly say that this group are offering any coherent opposition on Brexit? |
I thought leaving your party was quite a big statement of opposition personally. If you want more details on the next moves, perhaps you'd better wait? | |
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| Independent Group on 18:08 - Feb 21 with 1798 views | ZedRodgers |
| Independent Group on 14:48 - Feb 21 by giant_stow |
I thought leaving your party was quite a big statement of opposition personally. If you want more details on the next moves, perhaps you'd better wait? |
I just find it strange that nobody is pressing them, particularly on their Brexit stance. The media seem to have given them a very easy ride on their position so far, considering they cite it as a reason for defecting.
Do they want a to stop Brexit, or do they want a soft Brexit? Soubry and Allen have hinted at the latter today and have suggested the customs union compromise that people are pointing and laughing at Corbyn about. It’s it’s a 2nd referendum they want, they need to set out how they expect that to work sharpish.
Hypocritical to accuse Labour of inaction but give this group licence to wait and see if/how they intend on opposing Brexit, and what they consider to be their way out of the deadlock. The media would do everybody a service by being forensic here. The Remainer pipe dream of this group waltzing in and taking the problem away for them needs to be brought back down to earth. | |
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| Independent Group on 18:20 - Feb 21 with 1789 views | itfcjoe |
| Independent Group on 18:08 - Feb 21 by ZedRodgers |
I just find it strange that nobody is pressing them, particularly on their Brexit stance. The media seem to have given them a very easy ride on their position so far, considering they cite it as a reason for defecting.
Do they want a to stop Brexit, or do they want a soft Brexit? Soubry and Allen have hinted at the latter today and have suggested the customs union compromise that people are pointing and laughing at Corbyn about. It’s it’s a 2nd referendum they want, they need to set out how they expect that to work sharpish.
Hypocritical to accuse Labour of inaction but give this group licence to wait and see if/how they intend on opposing Brexit, and what they consider to be their way out of the deadlock. The media would do everybody a service by being forensic here. The Remainer pipe dream of this group waltzing in and taking the problem away for them needs to be brought back down to earth. |
“Hypocritical to accuse Labour of inaction but give this group licence to wait and see if/how they intend on opposing Brexit,”
FFS, Labour are the opposition to the government - this is a group of 11 independent MPs who joined forces a couple of days ago | |
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| Independent Group on 18:44 - Feb 21 with 1771 views | ZedRodgers |
| Independent Group on 18:20 - Feb 21 by itfcjoe |
“Hypocritical to accuse Labour of inaction but give this group licence to wait and see if/how they intend on opposing Brexit,”
FFS, Labour are the opposition to the government - this is a group of 11 independent MPs who joined forces a couple of days ago |
So they get a free ride for a bit?
You’ve already explained that you’re don’t acknowledge the actions Labour have taken to bring the debate on Brexit back to the HoC from private cabinet meetings and the compromises they’ve forced the government to make.
If you’re not happy with what they’ve done and want a different approach, you should be clear about what that approach is and how you think this group are going to achieve it. Without doing that, there’s not much point in saying they are more in line with your views.
They’ve been meeting each other for months and this has been in the pipeline for long enough for them to state their intentions. That’s the very least their constituents deserve. | |
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| Independent Group on 18:51 - Feb 21 with 1758 views | sparks |
| Independent Group on 18:44 - Feb 21 by ZedRodgers |
So they get a free ride for a bit?
You’ve already explained that you’re don’t acknowledge the actions Labour have taken to bring the debate on Brexit back to the HoC from private cabinet meetings and the compromises they’ve forced the government to make.
If you’re not happy with what they’ve done and want a different approach, you should be clear about what that approach is and how you think this group are going to achieve it. Without doing that, there’s not much point in saying they are more in line with your views.
They’ve been meeting each other for months and this has been in the pipeline for long enough for them to state their intentions. That’s the very least their constituents deserve. |
The level of obsession with these "traitors" is extraordinary. Is this a directive from Momentum or straight from the dear Leader? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Independent Group on 18:55 - Feb 21 with 1755 views | itfcjoe |
| Independent Group on 18:44 - Feb 21 by ZedRodgers |
So they get a free ride for a bit?
You’ve already explained that you’re don’t acknowledge the actions Labour have taken to bring the debate on Brexit back to the HoC from private cabinet meetings and the compromises they’ve forced the government to make.
If you’re not happy with what they’ve done and want a different approach, you should be clear about what that approach is and how you think this group are going to achieve it. Without doing that, there’s not much point in saying they are more in line with your views.
They’ve been meeting each other for months and this has been in the pipeline for long enough for them to state their intentions. That’s the very least their constituents deserve. |
I don’t really understand what is so difficult to grasp about the fact that I find the MPs in this group have much more in common with my views than those on the front benches on either of the main 2 parties.
At the moment this is a party of remainers, but there are 11 of them - the same as the LDs who are also unable to stop Brexit. Even if it is just as ‘not in my name’ that is enough for me at the moment rather than the shambles that is Tory party and the Labour Party | |
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| Independent Group on 18:59 - Feb 21 with 1746 views | Championship |
| Independent Group on 18:20 - Feb 21 by itfcjoe |
“Hypocritical to accuse Labour of inaction but give this group licence to wait and see if/how they intend on opposing Brexit,”
FFS, Labour are the opposition to the government - this is a group of 11 independent MPs who joined forces a couple of days ago |
If they have no policies yet how do they know they will agree? Soubry said the coalition did a good job. Not sure the Labour lot would agree. They seem to be a one issue party at the moment. The anti UKIP. |  | | |
| Independent Group on 19:02 - Feb 21 with 1740 views | itfcjoe |
| Independent Group on 18:59 - Feb 21 by Championship |
If they have no policies yet how do they know they will agree? Soubry said the coalition did a good job. Not sure the Labour lot would agree. They seem to be a one issue party at the moment. The anti UKIP. |
I think the coalition did a good job, now the Labour Party aren’t enemies of them they may agree? I think what has happened since 2015 has illustrated that what happened in coalition could’ve been a lot worse | |
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| Independent Group on 19:08 - Feb 21 with 1731 views | GlasgowBlue |
Owen Jones still not taking this split well.
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| Independent Group on 19:11 - Feb 21 with 1717 views | Championship |
| Independent Group on 19:08 - Feb 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Owen Jones still not taking this split well.
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He is an irritating little sht. | | | |
| Independent Group on 19:13 - Feb 21 with 1699 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Independent Group on 19:08 - Feb 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Owen Jones still not taking this split well.
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It’s quite funny watching people that have spent the past few years whining about Corbyn being smeared, going so far out of their way to smear a small group of MP’s who apparently don’t represent anyone or offer any threat |  |
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| Independent Group on 19:17 - Feb 21 with 1689 views | footers |
| Independent Group on 19:08 - Feb 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Owen Jones still not taking this split well.
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So weird this obsession with a third-rate Graun journo. Who cares what he thinks? | |
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| Independent Group on 19:19 - Feb 21 with 1676 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Independent Group on 19:17 - Feb 21 by footers |
So weird this obsession with a third-rate Graun journo. Who cares what he thinks? |
Obsession? I just thought it funny that he is having a similar meltdown to our own zed since the seven Labour MP's split. | |
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| Independent Group on 19:22 - Feb 21 with 1671 views | footers |
| Independent Group on 19:19 - Feb 21 by GlasgowBlue |
Obsession? I just thought it funny that he is having a similar meltdown to our own zed since the seven Labour MP's split. |
Not you specifically, just seen his name bandied about on here more than most journos.
I also have no idea why he, or anyone else for that matter, would be so fussed with the defections. I make Toynbee right in that they'll crash head-first into FPTP and disappear pretty sharpish. But I'm useless at betting, so probably wrong as per! | |
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| Independent Group on 19:23 - Feb 21 with 1669 views | ZedRodgers |
| Independent Group on 18:55 - Feb 21 by itfcjoe |
I don’t really understand what is so difficult to grasp about the fact that I find the MPs in this group have much more in common with my views than those on the front benches on either of the main 2 parties.
At the moment this is a party of remainers, but there are 11 of them - the same as the LDs who are also unable to stop Brexit. Even if it is just as ‘not in my name’ that is enough for me at the moment rather than the shambles that is Tory party and the Labour Party |
I’ve said what I find difficult to grasp - the fact nobody can say what it is they have in common with them. I’m not trying to preach to you, it’t a question. I genuinely would like to know.
Is it really as simple as the fact that they’re remainers? That’s what you mean? No plan or distinction between no Brexit or soft Brexit, just happy to support them for being a group of remainers with no plan. If that’s not doing nothing and enabling Brexit, I don’t know what is.
As I’ve said, Soubry and Allen have suggested a customs union compromise. A position no different to Labour’s. If it’s a 2nd ref you’re after, you’ve got about 30 days before ‘waiting and seeing’ is no longer an option. | |
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| Independent Group on 20:28 - Feb 21 with 1602 views | itfcjoe |
| Independent Group on 19:23 - Feb 21 by ZedRodgers |
I’ve said what I find difficult to grasp - the fact nobody can say what it is they have in common with them. I’m not trying to preach to you, it’t a question. I genuinely would like to know.
Is it really as simple as the fact that they’re remainers? That’s what you mean? No plan or distinction between no Brexit or soft Brexit, just happy to support them for being a group of remainers with no plan. If that’s not doing nothing and enabling Brexit, I don’t know what is.
As I’ve said, Soubry and Allen have suggested a customs union compromise. A position no different to Labour’s. If it’s a 2nd ref you’re after, you’ve got about 30 days before ‘waiting and seeing’ is no longer an option. |
These are people who have been some of the leading voices for a Peoples Vote, that is something I agree should have happened, unfortunately it is beginning to look like it is too late for this now.
There are also people in this group who I think have offered the views on Brexit I most agree with.
I've previously voted for Labour, Tories and the LDs in General Elections, I'm a floating voter but that is because I'm effectively a centrist - whoever tends to sit there tends to get my vote. This isn't something I've done by design, but something that I can look back on now and see is what has happened.
Over the last few years the Tories have gone further to the right, totally at odds with what May stated when she took over, Labour have gone too far left for me under Corbyn and McDonnell. There is a gaping chasm in the centre ground which the Lib Dems cannot seize, the guys in this party I am most aware of are centrists in reality.
I can't say I know much about all of them - I've liked Heidi Allen and Chukka for a long time, I like Soubry's bravery and views on Brexi. Woolaston is someone who has spoken a lot of sense whenever I've heard her.
There are MPs I like in the other parties - I have a lot of time for David Lammy and Justine Greening - but both of these are being wasted on the back benches by terrible party leaders. Hopefully they will defect soon. Ken Clarke is another one.
But my views on politicians are generally garnered by watching them and listening to them and seeing who I like and agree with - not by reading the minutiae of manifestos. | |
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