| Emma Hayes - Chelsea 16:53 - Feb 19 with 15950 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
A few callers on Talksport have put her name forward as a potential for next Chelsea manager.
Having listened to her on the Radio, she knows her stuff, but you would have to say that she's never managed at a high level, and surely there are better candidates.
Could she do the job? |  |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:18 - Feb 20 with 3721 views | BerlinBlue |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 09:16 - Feb 20 by sparks |
I don't agree. The resistance isnt based on some unreasnoable prejudice so much as the reality of the situation.
The men's game is very different in many ways. Its a different world.
If a female coach wants to get into the top of the men's game, surely, the starting point is to learn about the men's game by being involved at a much lower level and doing well there. |
If you think the resistance isn't at least partly based on an unreasonable gender prejudice, you're short-sighted. The women's game is largely ridiculed by men. Unfairly und without much serious thought.
I agree with your last paragraph. If a woman takes that route and is successful, there should be no problem wit her taking charge of a men's team in future. |  | | |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:20 - Feb 20 with 3712 views | Swansea_Blue |
Absolutely no reason why not, other than taking a punt on someone who'd not managed in that league before. |  |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:22 - Feb 20 with 3708 views | sparks |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:18 - Feb 20 by BerlinBlue |
If you think the resistance isn't at least partly based on an unreasonable gender prejudice, you're short-sighted. The women's game is largely ridiculed by men. Unfairly und without much serious thought.
I agree with your last paragraph. If a woman takes that route and is successful, there should be no problem wit her taking charge of a men's team in future. |
The women's game is rightly ridiculed (perhaps ridicule is unfair- but certainly criticised and not nearly so engaging for many of us) by men as a spectator sport. Its is significantly slower and less physical and the goalkeeping has for many years been appalling and funny to watch. The latter has certainly improved a good deal but still seems to be a thing. Of course there would be resistance based on inertia, tradition and prejudice- though I think its important to note that some prejudice can be rational and reasonable.
The key issue here (but not the only one) is that Ms Hayes clearly doesnt have any of the knowledge or experience one ought to have to get a shot at this type of job, and her not getting such a job is down to that in the first instance, rather than anything else. [Post edited 20 Feb 2019 10:25]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:23 - Feb 20 with 3707 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 17:19 - Feb 19 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Lots of people can talk a good game on the radio/TV but actually managing is a different story altogether. Mick Mills and Gary Neville are prime examples. |
She's a manager with 18 years experience. Not at the level of Chelsea mens team, obviously. But she's far from someone who just talks a good game on the radio/TV. | |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:29 - Feb 20 with 3696 views | Townly |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 16:57 - Feb 19 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Would be difficult to see how she would be the best candidate.
Would be an interesting experiment though. |
I was in full admiration of Cheri Lungi ..... not sure though as it was because of her managerial ability or other factors. |  | | |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:35 - Feb 20 with 3688 views | BerlinBlue |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:22 - Feb 20 by sparks |
The women's game is rightly ridiculed (perhaps ridicule is unfair- but certainly criticised and not nearly so engaging for many of us) by men as a spectator sport. Its is significantly slower and less physical and the goalkeeping has for many years been appalling and funny to watch. The latter has certainly improved a good deal but still seems to be a thing. Of course there would be resistance based on inertia, tradition and prejudice- though I think its important to note that some prejudice can be rational and reasonable.
The key issue here (but not the only one) is that Ms Hayes clearly doesnt have any of the knowledge or experience one ought to have to get a shot at this type of job, and her not getting such a job is down to that in the first instance, rather than anything else. [Post edited 20 Feb 2019 10:25]
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Glad you added that edit as ridicule really is unfair. If your daughter or wife was playing in a game, would you laugh at them?
Many people enjoy watching women's football. While I don't say it has the same qualities as the men, it is getting better and better. The last couple of tournaments have been pretty high quality.
Emma Hayes may not be the right candidate right now for the Chelsea job. One day she may be. And if she is, I'd applaud the decision to appoint her. | | | |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:47 - Feb 20 with 3672 views | sparks |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:35 - Feb 20 by BerlinBlue |
Glad you added that edit as ridicule really is unfair. If your daughter or wife was playing in a game, would you laugh at them?
Many people enjoy watching women's football. While I don't say it has the same qualities as the men, it is getting better and better. The last couple of tournaments have been pretty high quality.
Emma Hayes may not be the right candidate right now for the Chelsea job. One day she may be. And if she is, I'd applaud the decision to appoint her. |
I believe in meritocracy. They are different games and different jobs.
I am aware that many people watch women's football- though the numbers are tiny compared to the men's game. We are being nagged at to accept a narrative that this is due to bias, and that to not like women's football is somehow evidence of prejudice. That feels like an underlying message in a lot of what the BBC put out and elsewhere. I reject that. It is lunacy that we are starting to get the calls for equal pay and equal prize money.
As for ridicule- the word was picked up from the previous post. Ridicule is not the right word- I agree. It is the case that it IS ridiculed by some, and the goalkeeping in particular... But I think it is reasonably seen as a lesser game, by some distance, and that people who enjoy the men's game are quite reasonable in taking that stance. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:52 - Feb 20 with 3664 views | pickles110564 |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 17:16 - Feb 19 by Lord_Lucan |
I take it you mean catering manager? |
You made me spit my drink out, nice to have a smile and a chuckle, thank you. |  | | |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:59 - Feb 20 with 3656 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:52 - Feb 20 by pickles110564 |
You made me spit my drink out, nice to have a smile and a chuckle, thank you. |
No problem, it's just a pity a few people are humourless and take everything so seriously.
How depressingly boring. |  |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 11:02 - Feb 20 with 3654 views | clive_baker |
It's only a matter of time before a female gets a managerial job in professional mens football, and good on whoever that is. I can't see it being at that level though, I would wager it'll be 4th or 5th tier and those in denial will claim it's all for 'PR'. |  |
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| on 11:03 - Feb 20 with 3639 views | _ |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 11:02 - Feb 20 by clive_baker |
It's only a matter of time before a female gets a managerial job in professional mens football, and good on whoever that is. I can't see it being at that level though, I would wager it'll be 4th or 5th tier and those in denial will claim it's all for 'PR'. |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 11:03 - Feb 20 with 3653 views | JammyDodgerrr |
One of the smartest people in football for sure, and it would be great to see, but i doubt it would be offered, and i'm not sure if she would even want it. |  |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 11:11 - Feb 20 with 3640 views | CoachRob |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:47 - Feb 20 by sparks |
I believe in meritocracy. They are different games and different jobs.
I am aware that many people watch women's football- though the numbers are tiny compared to the men's game. We are being nagged at to accept a narrative that this is due to bias, and that to not like women's football is somehow evidence of prejudice. That feels like an underlying message in a lot of what the BBC put out and elsewhere. I reject that. It is lunacy that we are starting to get the calls for equal pay and equal prize money.
As for ridicule- the word was picked up from the previous post. Ridicule is not the right word- I agree. It is the case that it IS ridiculed by some, and the goalkeeping in particular... But I think it is reasonably seen as a lesser game, by some distance, and that people who enjoy the men's game are quite reasonable in taking that stance. |
So the UEFA A Licence is different for men and women? Could you tell me the last time you attended an FA CPD event (UEFA B to Pro-Licence) whether there were any women in attendance? This smacks of total ignorance of coach education and the coaching pathway.
This issue is about coaching not playing and your statement about meritocracy is absurd. If two coaches hold the same qualification and have similar experience by your right wing theory of meritocracy they should earn the same marginal product - their gender should be irrelevant. |  | | |
| on 11:13 - Feb 20 with 3625 views | _ |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 11:11 - Feb 20 by CoachRob |
So the UEFA A Licence is different for men and women? Could you tell me the last time you attended an FA CPD event (UEFA B to Pro-Licence) whether there were any women in attendance? This smacks of total ignorance of coach education and the coaching pathway.
This issue is about coaching not playing and your statement about meritocracy is absurd. If two coaches hold the same qualification and have similar experience by your right wing theory of meritocracy they should earn the same marginal product - their gender should be irrelevant. |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:18 - Feb 20 with 3609 views | sparks |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 11:11 - Feb 20 by CoachRob |
So the UEFA A Licence is different for men and women? Could you tell me the last time you attended an FA CPD event (UEFA B to Pro-Licence) whether there were any women in attendance? This smacks of total ignorance of coach education and the coaching pathway.
This issue is about coaching not playing and your statement about meritocracy is absurd. If two coaches hold the same qualification and have similar experience by your right wing theory of meritocracy they should earn the same marginal product - their gender should be irrelevant. |
As a qualified coach I can say I have seen very few women at such events. As a general rule, it seems far fewer women, as a proportion of the population, are strongly interested. That may change- who knows?
I have no clue what point you think youa re making though. You can get a coaching qualification without having genuine experience of the top end of men's professional football. Which is the whole point.
Quite what believing in things being done on merit has to do with "right wing" I have no idea.
Similarly I have no idea where you think that I might have suggested that two coaches with similar qualifications and experience (presumably you would also include success / effectiveness...) should be differentiated on gender. I havent. [Post edited 20 Feb 2019 13:50]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:24 - Feb 20 with 3602 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 11:11 - Feb 20 by CoachRob |
So the UEFA A Licence is different for men and women? Could you tell me the last time you attended an FA CPD event (UEFA B to Pro-Licence) whether there were any women in attendance? This smacks of total ignorance of coach education and the coaching pathway.
This issue is about coaching not playing and your statement about meritocracy is absurd. If two coaches hold the same qualification and have similar experience by your right wing theory of meritocracy they should earn the same marginal product - their gender should be irrelevant. |
Quite. And that's before we get on to the broader issue of the character traits required for managerial positions, such as leadership, emotional intelligence , etc. As far as Im aware gender doesn't come into those either.
The biggest barrier would be acceptance (as so well demonstrated by this thread). | |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:41 - Feb 20 with 3587 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 19:19 - Feb 19 by BerlinBlue |
You're right, football is backward. I think your use of "tolerate" in the last sentence is spot on. Ridiculous really. But for it to change, the men's game needs a female manager. The women's game is getting stronger and more prominent very rapidly, and with it their managers (although there are a number of male managers too). Some of these will get a chance in men's teams, and even if that happening is still a way off, when it does it will be a good thing. |
Have you watched women's football in England? It's a poor standard. |  |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:42 - Feb 20 with 3588 views | sparks |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:24 - Feb 20 by Swansea_Blue |
Quite. And that's before we get on to the broader issue of the character traits required for managerial positions, such as leadership, emotional intelligence , etc. As far as Im aware gender doesn't come into those either.
The biggest barrier would be acceptance (as so well demonstrated by this thread). |
Absolute nonsense. Can you point to something in this thread that actually demonstrates that, rather than making an unreasoned inference? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:45 - Feb 20 with 3586 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:22 - Feb 20 by sparks |
The women's game is rightly ridiculed (perhaps ridicule is unfair- but certainly criticised and not nearly so engaging for many of us) by men as a spectator sport. Its is significantly slower and less physical and the goalkeeping has for many years been appalling and funny to watch. The latter has certainly improved a good deal but still seems to be a thing. Of course there would be resistance based on inertia, tradition and prejudice- though I think its important to note that some prejudice can be rational and reasonable.
The key issue here (but not the only one) is that Ms Hayes clearly doesnt have any of the knowledge or experience one ought to have to get a shot at this type of job, and her not getting such a job is down to that in the first instance, rather than anything else. [Post edited 20 Feb 2019 10:25]
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I often watch the highlights on the BBC and let me tell you, the standard of goalkeeping has not improved. Every game it seems there is at least one example of appalling goalkeeping. | |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:46 - Feb 20 with 3582 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:45 - Feb 20 by The_Last_Baron |
I often watch the highlights on the BBC and let me tell you, the standard of goalkeeping has not improved. Every game it seems there is at least one example of appalling goalkeeping. |
The Women's World Cup isn't bad, teams lime USA, Brazil, Japan, Norway, Germany, the England team are ok. Below that it's hard work . | |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:52 - Feb 20 with 3574 views | Ryorry |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:45 - Feb 20 by The_Last_Baron |
I often watch the highlights on the BBC and let me tell you, the standard of goalkeeping has not improved. Every game it seems there is at least one example of appalling goalkeeping. |
You've forgotten Bart last Sat already?!
Not to mention all the others in the Championship & Prem on a regular basis. |  |
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:59 - Feb 20 with 3565 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 10:29 - Feb 20 by Townly |
I was in full admiration of Cheri Lungi ..... not sure though as it was because of her managerial ability or other factors. |
Cheri Lungi...an amazing woman. | |
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| on 14:49 - Feb 20 with 3548 views | _ |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:18 - Feb 20 by sparks |
As a qualified coach I can say I have seen very few women at such events. As a general rule, it seems far fewer women, as a proportion of the population, are strongly interested. That may change- who knows?
I have no clue what point you think youa re making though. You can get a coaching qualification without having genuine experience of the top end of men's professional football. Which is the whole point.
Quite what believing in things being done on merit has to do with "right wing" I have no idea.
Similarly I have no idea where you think that I might have suggested that two coaches with similar qualifications and experience (presumably you would also include success / effectiveness...) should be differentiated on gender. I havent. [Post edited 20 Feb 2019 13:50]
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| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 15:13 - Feb 20 with 3528 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Emma Hayes - Chelsea on 13:42 - Feb 20 by sparks |
Absolute nonsense. Can you point to something in this thread that actually demonstrates that, rather than making an unreasoned inference? |
And yourself: "The key issue here (but not the only one) is that Ms Hayes clearly doesnt have any of the knowledge or experience one ought to have to get a shot at this type of job,"
"doesnt have any of the knowledge or experience" - 18 years football management experience. How many did Keane have, Magilton, etc., etc? Sound like lame excuses to me. And what's "but not the only one" meant to mean? | |
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