| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:31 - Apr 4 with 2299 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:11 - Apr 4 by StokieBlue |
Starting from such a position, clearly entrenched and looking to shoot at anything coming the other way isn't going to get you anywhere with your aim of persuading people.
You've not provided any evidence that the government are proven liars or that the mainstream media have some kind of agenda to push harmful vaccines onto people. Citing mainstream media is just a lazy argument made by everyone who wants to push a viewpoint.
As Spruce said, do you have examples?
SB [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 15:12]
|
Who said I'm trying to persuade people? I am merely countering OP which wrongly claims vaccines don't cause harm. This is quite clearly not the case as people have and will continue to be injured by vaccines.
Do you really need me to provide evidence that governments tell lies, I thought you had been following brexit? |  | |  |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:40 - Apr 4 with 2281 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Dunno, I had a couple of jabs a few weeks ago before holiday and felt somewhat ropey for a whole 3 or so hours later that night. Plus my arm ached for days
Starting to think those anti-vaxxers have a point |  |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:40 - Apr 4 with 2279 views | SpruceMoose |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:40 - Apr 4 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Dunno, I had a couple of jabs a few weeks ago before holiday and felt somewhat ropey for a whole 3 or so hours later that night. Plus my arm ached for days
Starting to think those anti-vaxxers have a point |
Jabs are ok from the nurse. It's the uppercut and haymaker you need to watch out for. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:54 - Apr 4 with 2265 views | StokieBlue |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:31 - Apr 4 by Harry_Palmer |
Who said I'm trying to persuade people? I am merely countering OP which wrongly claims vaccines don't cause harm. This is quite clearly not the case as people have and will continue to be injured by vaccines.
Do you really need me to provide evidence that governments tell lies, I thought you had been following brexit? |
"Do you really need me to provide evidence that governments tell lies, I thought you had been following brexit?"
That's a logical fallacy, just because you feel they lied about Brexit doesn't mean they lie about a totally uncorrelated subject. You'll need better evidence than that, specifically them lying about vaccinations.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:56 - Apr 4 with 2260 views | SpruceMoose |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:54 - Apr 4 by StokieBlue |
"Do you really need me to provide evidence that governments tell lies, I thought you had been following brexit?"
That's a logical fallacy, just because you feel they lied about Brexit doesn't mean they lie about a totally uncorrelated subject. You'll need better evidence than that, specifically them lying about vaccinations.
SB |
Not just the UK government either. But every single Government in the world would have to be in on the lie, going back through history. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 16:32 - Apr 4 with 2244 views | chicoazul |
I have a question, maybe one of you guys can answer. Is there an example of a test or two that has been done on vaccinated and non-vaccinated children to see the difference in the prevalence of things like measels? |  |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:07 - Apr 4 with 2231 views | Mullet |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 16:32 - Apr 4 by chicoazul |
I have a question, maybe one of you guys can answer. Is there an example of a test or two that has been done on vaccinated and non-vaccinated children to see the difference in the prevalence of things like measels? |
The amount of kids that get sick and/or die during a measles outbreak vs the ones that don't because they've been vaccinated? |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:08 - Apr 4 with 2229 views | chicoazul |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:07 - Apr 4 by Mullet |
The amount of kids that get sick and/or die during a measles outbreak vs the ones that don't because they've been vaccinated? |
I mean a proper test, a study. | |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:13 - Apr 4 with 2223 views | Mullet |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:08 - Apr 4 by chicoazul |
I mean a proper test, a study. |
What would be more proper than counting toe tags in this instance? | |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 18:23 - Apr 4 with 2196 views | chicoazul |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:13 - Apr 4 by Mullet |
What would be more proper than counting toe tags in this instance? |
Surely there could be all sorts of reasons why it might happen? I have no dog in this fight btw, I think both of mine are vaccinated and neither of their heads have dropped off or anything. I would just like to know if there is a study, a proper study.
EDIT; in hindsight I have explained myself very badly here, even worse than usual. I don't mean a study about who gets measels and who doesnt but rather, a study about the things the Anti Vax people say vaccinated kids get for e.g. autism and asthma. Is there such a thing? [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 18:56]
| |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 21:18 - Apr 4 with 2159 views | Mullet |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 18:23 - Apr 4 by chicoazul |
Surely there could be all sorts of reasons why it might happen? I have no dog in this fight btw, I think both of mine are vaccinated and neither of their heads have dropped off or anything. I would just like to know if there is a study, a proper study.
EDIT; in hindsight I have explained myself very badly here, even worse than usual. I don't mean a study about who gets measels and who doesnt but rather, a study about the things the Anti Vax people say vaccinated kids get for e.g. autism and asthma. Is there such a thing? [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 18:56]
|
There's been more than one proof that the autism thing was utterly made up bad science nonsense as far as I'm aware. Which is why child abusers who don't vaccinate their kids and put everyone at risk latch onto him so fervently I guess.
I assume the asthma stuff likewise. | |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 21:25 - Apr 4 with 2150 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 21:18 - Apr 4 by Mullet |
There's been more than one proof that the autism thing was utterly made up bad science nonsense as far as I'm aware. Which is why child abusers who don't vaccinate their kids and put everyone at risk latch onto him so fervently I guess.
I assume the asthma stuff likewise. |
Although 'experts' do get things wrong and change their minds over time on medical 'facts.'......this just today..
https://news.sky.com/story/primodos-drug-linked-to-birth-defects-not-assessed-pr |  |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 21:32 - Apr 4 with 2148 views | Mullet |
Show me the one that is a relevant point to my post, and you'd have one. | |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 09:12 - Apr 5 with 2069 views | StokieBlue |
It was removed from use in 1977 when concerns were raised so I'm not really sure it supports your point.
If anything it shows that science is able to change it's mind, something dogma or conspiracy isn't able to do.
Correct me if this is wrong but you are essentially saying every possible thing should be known about a drug or treatment before it is used - this is clearly impossible and making points using hindsight isn't really relevant.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:50 - Apr 5 with 2024 views | Mullet |
Surely the fact that there is a massive rise in infection due to a regressive idiotic selfishness that sees less children inoculated proves just that?
Vaccines massively reduce risk, no one is saying they a magic potion. Medicine has never worked like that and probably never will.
I'm not sure you're in a position to implore anyone to fact check anything judging by your output on the subject frankly. [Post edited 5 Apr 2019 16:08]
| |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 16:14 - Apr 5 with 2009 views | StokieBlue |
If you don't believe in herd immunity then there isn't really much point discussing any of this stuff. It's well known and an article from a holistic therapist who has Goop on her website isn't a great source to be citing.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 16:24 - Apr 5 with 1998 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 15:50 - Apr 5 by Mullet |
Surely the fact that there is a massive rise in infection due to a regressive idiotic selfishness that sees less children inoculated proves just that?
Vaccines massively reduce risk, no one is saying they a magic potion. Medicine has never worked like that and probably never will.
I'm not sure you're in a position to implore anyone to fact check anything judging by your output on the subject frankly. [Post edited 5 Apr 2019 16:08]
|
Nicely swerved. Your first sentence doesn't even make sense and you have nothing but repeating the what you have heard on the news to back up what you say.
If people that are vaccinated still get measles in an outbreak please explain how it is a) the fault of the unvaccinated and b) how everybody getting vaccinated will solve the problem? | | | |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 16:43 - Apr 5 with 1988 views | StokieBlue |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 16:24 - Apr 5 by Harry_Palmer |
Nicely swerved. Your first sentence doesn't even make sense and you have nothing but repeating the what you have heard on the news to back up what you say.
If people that are vaccinated still get measles in an outbreak please explain how it is a) the fault of the unvaccinated and b) how everybody getting vaccinated will solve the problem? |
a). Not everyone's immune system will respond to the vaccination so even some people who are immunised might still get it. it's not the fault of the unvaccinated, they do however increase the chance that the disease will find a vaccinated person who is susceptible. This is why herd immunity is important and real even if you don't like it.
b). There will be less of the disease around as most people will have immunity and the susceptible people are unlikely to come across it.
You seem to look at everything from the edge case (which might be understandable in your situation) rather than considering the massive middle section of the graph. It's percentages and always picking outliers is a poor argument.
For instance, using your way of looking at things we should ban cars. Most journeys end in the person getting to their destination but the outliers end with someone dying. That is essentially what you are doing with your analysis but I bet it seems silly when applied to cars?
SB [Post edited 5 Apr 2019 16:46]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:06 - Apr 5 with 1971 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 16:43 - Apr 5 by StokieBlue |
a). Not everyone's immune system will respond to the vaccination so even some people who are immunised might still get it. it's not the fault of the unvaccinated, they do however increase the chance that the disease will find a vaccinated person who is susceptible. This is why herd immunity is important and real even if you don't like it.
b). There will be less of the disease around as most people will have immunity and the susceptible people are unlikely to come across it.
You seem to look at everything from the edge case (which might be understandable in your situation) rather than considering the massive middle section of the graph. It's percentages and always picking outliers is a poor argument.
For instance, using your way of looking at things we should ban cars. Most journeys end in the person getting to their destination but the outliers end with someone dying. That is essentially what you are doing with your analysis but I bet it seems silly when applied to cars?
SB [Post edited 5 Apr 2019 16:46]
|
Mullet claimed that vaccinated children don't get sick during an outbreak, I clearly demonstrated that not to be the case. You have also backed up my point by the way so thanks.
Herd immunity is a theory and is not proven in real world populations.
The car analogy while very nice, really has nothing to do with the points I was making. | | | |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:22 - Apr 5 with 1966 views | StokieBlue |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:06 - Apr 5 by Harry_Palmer |
Mullet claimed that vaccinated children don't get sick during an outbreak, I clearly demonstrated that not to be the case. You have also backed up my point by the way so thanks.
Herd immunity is a theory and is not proven in real world populations.
The car analogy while very nice, really has nothing to do with the points I was making. |
Mullet didn't say that and my reply was to your (a) and (b) questions.
Herd immunity does work regardless of which outlier sources with no qualifications you decide to cite.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:33 - Apr 5 with 1958 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 18:23 - Apr 4 by chicoazul |
Surely there could be all sorts of reasons why it might happen? I have no dog in this fight btw, I think both of mine are vaccinated and neither of their heads have dropped off or anything. I would just like to know if there is a study, a proper study.
EDIT; in hindsight I have explained myself very badly here, even worse than usual. I don't mean a study about who gets measels and who doesnt but rather, a study about the things the Anti Vax people say vaccinated kids get for e.g. autism and asthma. Is there such a thing? [Post edited 4 Apr 2019 18:56]
|
Like this one you mean? which found that the unvaccinated had better overall health outcomes than vaccinated.
Vaccinated significantly more likely to be diagnosed with -
Otitis Media ( ear infection ) - 19.% vs 5.8%
Pneumonia - 6.4% vs 1.2%
Allergies - 22.2% vs 6.9%
Eczema/ Dermatitis - 9.5% vs 3.6%
ADHD - 4.7% to 1%
Any neurodevelopment disorder - 10.5% vs 3.1%
Any Chronic illness - 44% vs 25%
Vaccinated children were less likely to get Chicken pox and whooping cough but no significant differences were seen on, measles, mumps, or influenza.
https://www.oatext.com/Pilot-comparative-study-on-the-health-of-vaccinated-and-u
Significantly, this study has been requested of the CDC and other authorities for years but they have always refused to do it, I wonder why.
Stokie or somebody will be along soon to claim that this study is flawed and was retracted. It isn't perfect but there is certainly enough there to warrant further investigation. In actual fact it was originally set to be published after a 2 month peer reviewed process but was then then strangely 'unpublished' by Frontiers at a later date. It would seem that certain folks ( ie. the pharmaceutical industry ) didn't like what the study revealed and flexed their muscles accordingly.
“Mawsons pilot study needs to be expanded and conducted by the highly respected international independent organisation the Cochrane Collaboration” said Kevin Barry, president of the non-profit health organisation, First Freedoms. “The CDC cannot be trusted to conduct a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study honestly” | | | |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 18:05 - Apr 5 with 1936 views | StokieBlue |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:33 - Apr 5 by Harry_Palmer |
Like this one you mean? which found that the unvaccinated had better overall health outcomes than vaccinated.
Vaccinated significantly more likely to be diagnosed with -
Otitis Media ( ear infection ) - 19.% vs 5.8%
Pneumonia - 6.4% vs 1.2%
Allergies - 22.2% vs 6.9%
Eczema/ Dermatitis - 9.5% vs 3.6%
ADHD - 4.7% to 1%
Any neurodevelopment disorder - 10.5% vs 3.1%
Any Chronic illness - 44% vs 25%
Vaccinated children were less likely to get Chicken pox and whooping cough but no significant differences were seen on, measles, mumps, or influenza.
https://www.oatext.com/Pilot-comparative-study-on-the-health-of-vaccinated-and-u
Significantly, this study has been requested of the CDC and other authorities for years but they have always refused to do it, I wonder why.
Stokie or somebody will be along soon to claim that this study is flawed and was retracted. It isn't perfect but there is certainly enough there to warrant further investigation. In actual fact it was originally set to be published after a 2 month peer reviewed process but was then then strangely 'unpublished' by Frontiers at a later date. It would seem that certain folks ( ie. the pharmaceutical industry ) didn't like what the study revealed and flexed their muscles accordingly.
“Mawsons pilot study needs to be expanded and conducted by the highly respected international independent organisation the Cochrane Collaboration” said Kevin Barry, president of the non-profit health organisation, First Freedoms. “The CDC cannot be trusted to conduct a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study honestly” |
Well it is flawed, because it was retracted.
Even in their own conclusion states:
"Nevertheless, the study findings should be interpreted with caution."
Can you find another 20 studies supporting your conclusions because I am pretty sure you could find 20 supporting the commonly held conclusion.
You have no evidence that it was suppressed, it's conspiracy theory stuff. It's actually irresponsible to push such angles unless you can support them.
SB [Post edited 5 Apr 2019 18:07]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 18:15 - Apr 5 with 1922 views | eireblue |
| Breaking news: Vaccines still don't cause significant harm on 17:33 - Apr 5 by Harry_Palmer |
Like this one you mean? which found that the unvaccinated had better overall health outcomes than vaccinated.
Vaccinated significantly more likely to be diagnosed with -
Otitis Media ( ear infection ) - 19.% vs 5.8%
Pneumonia - 6.4% vs 1.2%
Allergies - 22.2% vs 6.9%
Eczema/ Dermatitis - 9.5% vs 3.6%
ADHD - 4.7% to 1%
Any neurodevelopment disorder - 10.5% vs 3.1%
Any Chronic illness - 44% vs 25%
Vaccinated children were less likely to get Chicken pox and whooping cough but no significant differences were seen on, measles, mumps, or influenza.
https://www.oatext.com/Pilot-comparative-study-on-the-health-of-vaccinated-and-u
Significantly, this study has been requested of the CDC and other authorities for years but they have always refused to do it, I wonder why.
Stokie or somebody will be along soon to claim that this study is flawed and was retracted. It isn't perfect but there is certainly enough there to warrant further investigation. In actual fact it was originally set to be published after a 2 month peer reviewed process but was then then strangely 'unpublished' by Frontiers at a later date. It would seem that certain folks ( ie. the pharmaceutical industry ) didn't like what the study revealed and flexed their muscles accordingly.
“Mawsons pilot study needs to be expanded and conducted by the highly respected international independent organisation the Cochrane Collaboration” said Kevin Barry, president of the non-profit health organisation, First Freedoms. “The CDC cannot be trusted to conduct a vaccinated vs unvaccinated study honestly” |
What if it is flawed?
What criteria are using to decide it is flawed or not flawed? |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
