| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests 09:22 - Apr 29 with 4052 views | StokieBlue |
So it seems that whilst supporting the extinction rebellion goals when asked in the street more and more of the UK population are doing the exact opposite:
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/thomas-cook-holiday-flights
I'm no better of course (probably far worse) but it does seem to show that people acknowledge that something needs to be done whilst not actually doing anything about it.
One good thing is that Boeing and Airbus are now seriously attempting to develop large electric aircraft. It's going to need companies like that to invest in order to make a difference because I'm not sure that as a public we will manage it.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:25 - Apr 29 with 2790 views | Herbivore |
Go vegan, that's one of the biggest changes an individual can make to reduce their impact on the environment. |  |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:31 - Apr 29 with 2771 views | BrixtonBlue |
Not having a go, but where does it say it was people asked in the street? As far as I can tell the report was taken from their customer base - i.e. people who go on holiday a lot. A survey covering everyone in the UK might reveal overall that less are flying.
Also, there are many aims of Extinction Rebellion, and many ways people can reduce their carbon footprint. I don't think it's therefore quite right to assert that "the UK population are doing the exact opposite." |  |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:32 - Apr 29 with 2765 views | StokieBlue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:25 - Apr 29 by Herbivore |
Go vegan, that's one of the biggest changes an individual can make to reduce their impact on the environment. |
That wasn't one of their stated goals though was it, in fact I thought they refused to promote it as a solution? Zero air travel by 2025 was a core goal and repeated all the time.
I think a lot of people (myself included) don't want to go vegan or veggie but are decreasing their meat intake a lot. Not perfect and not what many people would want but it's a start.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:36 - Apr 29 with 2757 views | StokieBlue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:31 - Apr 29 by BrixtonBlue |
Not having a go, but where does it say it was people asked in the street? As far as I can tell the report was taken from their customer base - i.e. people who go on holiday a lot. A survey covering everyone in the UK might reveal overall that less are flying.
Also, there are many aims of Extinction Rebellion, and many ways people can reduce their carbon footprint. I don't think it's therefore quite right to assert that "the UK population are doing the exact opposite." |
A core goal was a ban on non-emergency air travel by 2025.
You've made a fair point on the sample size but surely it's the customer base that needs to be reached and changed? The fact they are increased short duration, long haul holidays is the opposite of what the protesters wanted. UK population should probably have read UK holidaymakers.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:40 - Apr 29 with 2743 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:25 - Apr 29 by Herbivore |
Go vegan, that's one of the biggest changes an individual can make to reduce their impact on the environment. |
interestingly, a return flight from London to LA is 5 tonnes of co2 emissions, being vegan for a year saves 1 tonne co2 relative to an average US diet. so don't take a long flight and you can eat meat for 5 years. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:41 - Apr 29 with 2732 views | Herbivore |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:40 - Apr 29 by lowhouseblue |
interestingly, a return flight from London to LA is 5 tonnes of co2 emissions, being vegan for a year saves 1 tonne co2 relative to an average US diet. so don't take a long flight and you can eat meat for 5 years. |
Is that 5 tons of CO2 per passenger or for the entire flight? | |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:44 - Apr 29 with 2725 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:41 - Apr 29 by Herbivore |
Is that 5 tons of CO2 per passenger or for the entire flight? |
yep, including the effect of the emissions being at high altitude (according to the online calculator that I stuck the destination into.
average us diet = 2.5 tonnes, vegan = 1.5 tonnes. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:47 - Apr 29 with 2716 views | Lord_Lucan |
Slightly on a tangent. I wonder how many people select the premium cleaner fuel option at 10p plus per litre when filling their car up? |  |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:48 - Apr 29 with 2702 views | Herbivore |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:44 - Apr 29 by lowhouseblue |
yep, including the effect of the emissions being at high altitude (according to the online calculator that I stuck the destination into.
average us diet = 2.5 tonnes, vegan = 1.5 tonnes. |
5 tons per passenger sounds high. Still, you could not fit to LA and go vegan. | |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:53 - Apr 29 with 2683 views | BrixtonBlue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:36 - Apr 29 by StokieBlue |
A core goal was a ban on non-emergency air travel by 2025.
You've made a fair point on the sample size but surely it's the customer base that needs to be reached and changed? The fact they are increased short duration, long haul holidays is the opposite of what the protesters wanted. UK population should probably have read UK holidaymakers.
SB |
As others have said, that goal is clearly unrealistic. And I don't really think Thomas Cook's customer base is going to change its ways whatever anyone else says.
If the population as a whole start doing things (as you have said you yourself have) then that's a step in the right direction. I think Extinction Rebellion have done a fantastic job in making this the hot talking point at the moment. Hopefully the knock on effect will be more big businesses launching ways to reduce their carbon footprint because they see how popular it is. | |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:04 - Apr 29 with 2649 views | StokieBlue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:48 - Apr 29 by Herbivore |
5 tons per passenger sounds high. Still, you could not fit to LA and go vegan. |
It is too much but perhaps not by as much as one would think (it's plane dependent, the below is for a 747 which data I could find in a quick Google):
Distance to LA = 8750km.
CO2 per passsenger per km = 101g
Tonnes CO2 per passenger = 0.88 tonnes
Tonnes per passenger with radiating force = 0.88 * 1.891 = 1.66 tonnes each way = 3.32 tonnes return.
This online calculator says it's 2.86 tonnes which is still quite a lot:
https://calculator.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx?lang=en-GB&tab=3
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:06 - Apr 29 with 2636 views | J2BLUE |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 09:44 - Apr 29 by lowhouseblue |
yep, including the effect of the emissions being at high altitude (according to the online calculator that I stuck the destination into.
average us diet = 2.5 tonnes, vegan = 1.5 tonnes. |
Some issues there for me:
1) Their breakdown of the standard US diet includes just 5% of calories (130 calories) per day from red meat. This seems extremely low for the US. How did they work out the standard? Total meat divided by the population? If so they haven't accounted for vegans, vegetarians or babies and the numbers will be higher.
2) Have they converted methane production to CO2 for the benefits of this? I think methane is something like 21 times more potent than CO2 so this could be misleading unless they have converted it to an equivalent value.
3) This study does not show the vast differences in water use and land use for meat and fruit/veg. If we ate more plants we could, in theory, take big chunks of that land which was used for animal products and plant millions of trees like the CO2 hungry alder tree. |  |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:08 - Apr 29 with 2634 views | lowhouseblue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:04 - Apr 29 by StokieBlue |
It is too much but perhaps not by as much as one would think (it's plane dependent, the below is for a 747 which data I could find in a quick Google):
Distance to LA = 8750km.
CO2 per passsenger per km = 101g
Tonnes CO2 per passenger = 0.88 tonnes
Tonnes per passenger with radiating force = 0.88 * 1.891 = 1.66 tonnes each way = 3.32 tonnes return.
This online calculator says it's 2.86 tonnes which is still quite a lot:
https://calculator.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx?lang=en-GB&tab=3
SB |
this is the one i used:
https://carbonfund.org/calculate-your-footprint/ | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:08 - Apr 29 with 2637 views | Swansea_Blue |
More than just emissions, but these are some of the things we've done over the last year:
1. Massively cut down on meat and dairy
2. Conscious effort to avoid plastic packaging and bottles
3. Take coffee & lunch to work rather than buy packaged stuff (use refillable mugs for coffee)
4. Switch to local farm shop for all fruit and veg and try to buy local more often (unbelievable how much plastic waste this reduces, and it's cheaper than supermarkets)
5. Installed solar (early days but our usage from the grid has fallen significantly)
6. Decided to interrail for our main summer holiday this year and stay local (UK) for all short breaks
7. Started using the bus for work more
8. Bought a family rail pass and going to start using the train more for weekend travel
9. Stopped washing the cars as often
It's been remarkably simple, and it's amazing how much we've cut waste. We can easily go for just 1 bin bag a month now (and it weighs practically nothing as it's mostly just plastic film). Plastic recycling has pretty much dried up (had nothing to put out last week).
No idea on our emission savings and no doubt we're peeing in the wind compared to the big picture, but if everyone did it I wonder where that would take us... |  |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:09 - Apr 29 with 2623 views | Herbivore |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:04 - Apr 29 by StokieBlue |
It is too much but perhaps not by as much as one would think (it's plane dependent, the below is for a 747 which data I could find in a quick Google):
Distance to LA = 8750km.
CO2 per passsenger per km = 101g
Tonnes CO2 per passenger = 0.88 tonnes
Tonnes per passenger with radiating force = 0.88 * 1.891 = 1.66 tonnes each way = 3.32 tonnes return.
This online calculator says it's 2.86 tonnes which is still quite a lot:
https://calculator.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx?lang=en-GB&tab=3
SB |
I looked at one that had it at around 1.8 so I guess it's not that easy to calculate.
I'd also throw in there that the meat and dairy industries also use eye watering amounts of water and produce significant quantities of methane emissions too so going vegan doesn't only reduce one's carbon footprint.
I'm not planning on flying to LA anytime soon either. | |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:15 - Apr 29 with 2593 views | J2BLUE |
Forgive my ignorance but i'm sure someone will know better than me. Am I being utterly stupid or is it really £6 to offset an entire ton of CO2?
https://www.carbonfootprint.com/offset.aspx?o=1
Am I missing something because that seems ridiculous? | |
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| Good effort... well done on 10:21 - Apr 29 with 2573 views | unstableblue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:08 - Apr 29 by Swansea_Blue |
More than just emissions, but these are some of the things we've done over the last year:
1. Massively cut down on meat and dairy
2. Conscious effort to avoid plastic packaging and bottles
3. Take coffee & lunch to work rather than buy packaged stuff (use refillable mugs for coffee)
4. Switch to local farm shop for all fruit and veg and try to buy local more often (unbelievable how much plastic waste this reduces, and it's cheaper than supermarkets)
5. Installed solar (early days but our usage from the grid has fallen significantly)
6. Decided to interrail for our main summer holiday this year and stay local (UK) for all short breaks
7. Started using the bus for work more
8. Bought a family rail pass and going to start using the train more for weekend travel
9. Stopped washing the cars as often
It's been remarkably simple, and it's amazing how much we've cut waste. We can easily go for just 1 bin bag a month now (and it weighs practically nothing as it's mostly just plastic film). Plastic recycling has pretty much dried up (had nothing to put out last week).
No idea on our emission savings and no doubt we're peeing in the wind compared to the big picture, but if everyone did it I wonder where that would take us... |
If everyone made half the effort you’re making it would be a huge impact on the environment.
It amazes me the apathy that is still out there... in our London office there’s probably only me and one other guy using reusable coffee mugs every day.... Pret actually give you a big discount, it stays warmer... and yet people in the main just keep using the single use mugs and lids.
Seems crazy.
Supermarket packaging does my head in... some of it so unnecessary. So much plastic. |  |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:40 - Apr 29 with 2531 views | caught-in-limbo |
"it does seem to show that people acknowledge that something needs to be done"
I'm not sure people do acknowledge that something needs to be done, certainly not with regards to CO2 emissions anyway.
My position on how much the burning of hydrocarbons is leading to a doomsday scenario 12 years from now is NOT fixed at all. It all smacks of scaremongering to me even to a very environmentally conscious person like me.
My brother was at the XR protests a couple of weeks ago. He doesn't understand my position. I don't really understand his position or other climate change protesters' almost apocalyptic desire for the end of the world to prove they were right about global warming.
Here is some CO2 positive science:
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/the-benefits-of-carbon-dioxide/ |  |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 11:09 - Apr 29 with 2489 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:40 - Apr 29 by caught-in-limbo |
"it does seem to show that people acknowledge that something needs to be done"
I'm not sure people do acknowledge that something needs to be done, certainly not with regards to CO2 emissions anyway.
My position on how much the burning of hydrocarbons is leading to a doomsday scenario 12 years from now is NOT fixed at all. It all smacks of scaremongering to me even to a very environmentally conscious person like me.
My brother was at the XR protests a couple of weeks ago. He doesn't understand my position. I don't really understand his position or other climate change protesters' almost apocalyptic desire for the end of the world to prove they were right about global warming.
Here is some CO2 positive science:
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/the-benefits-of-carbon-dioxide/ |
It doesn't take a lot of looking to see that "science" could well be a very generous description of this well-known climate skeptic's approach.
He seems to have spent a lot of 2015 on the airwaves and in the media making these claims. There's quite a strong challenge to the transcript of one of his Radio 4 interviews here - https://www.carbonbrief.org/scientists-respond-to-matt-ridleys-climate-change-cl
I'd take with a pinch (bucket) of salt. | |
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| Good effort... well done on 11:10 - Apr 29 with 2486 views | StokieBlue |
| Good effort... well done on 10:21 - Apr 29 by unstableblue |
If everyone made half the effort you’re making it would be a huge impact on the environment.
It amazes me the apathy that is still out there... in our London office there’s probably only me and one other guy using reusable coffee mugs every day.... Pret actually give you a big discount, it stays warmer... and yet people in the main just keep using the single use mugs and lids.
Seems crazy.
Supermarket packaging does my head in... some of it so unnecessary. So much plastic. |
I've saved a fortune in Pret with my reusable cup.
It's not just them though, virtually everywhere will give you a discount now if you're using a reusable cup.
SB [Post edited 29 Apr 2019 11:15]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 11:15 - Apr 29 with 2472 views | StokieBlue |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 10:40 - Apr 29 by caught-in-limbo |
"it does seem to show that people acknowledge that something needs to be done"
I'm not sure people do acknowledge that something needs to be done, certainly not with regards to CO2 emissions anyway.
My position on how much the burning of hydrocarbons is leading to a doomsday scenario 12 years from now is NOT fixed at all. It all smacks of scaremongering to me even to a very environmentally conscious person like me.
My brother was at the XR protests a couple of weeks ago. He doesn't understand my position. I don't really understand his position or other climate change protesters' almost apocalyptic desire for the end of the world to prove they were right about global warming.
Here is some CO2 positive science:
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/the-benefits-of-carbon-dioxide/ |
The 12 year doomsday scenario isn't right and neither is the insistence that the human race will become extinct (we are pesky).
From a quick glance I'm not too sure about that website. For instance, number 6:
6. Increasing carbon dioxide concentrations have also increased the productivity of many marine ecosystems.
Increased CO2 and thus warmer temperatures have had a horrible effect on coral reefs which are one of the major marine ecosystems.
I'll try and have a better look at that article later.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 11:15 - Apr 29 with 2469 views | bluelagos |
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jan/06/happiness-index-wellbeing-survey-u
Posted this before. Well worth reading the book. One thing that jumps out is a different approach to life, one of "just enough*.
Our consumerism and obsession with the latest whatever is hugely wasteful. Time for a new way of looking at how we live imho. |  |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 11:29 - Apr 29 with 2419 views | chicoazul |
Weird how a lot of people had a go at me for pointing out something similar last week. |  |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 11:34 - Apr 29 with 2407 views | caught-in-limbo |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 11:09 - Apr 29 by Swansea_Blue |
It doesn't take a lot of looking to see that "science" could well be a very generous description of this well-known climate skeptic's approach.
He seems to have spent a lot of 2015 on the airwaves and in the media making these claims. There's quite a strong challenge to the transcript of one of his Radio 4 interviews here - https://www.carbonbrief.org/scientists-respond-to-matt-ridleys-climate-change-cl
I'd take with a pinch (bucket) of salt. |
Cheers, I'll check it out. | |
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| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 11:39 - Apr 29 with 2388 views | bluelagos |
| This is interesting given the recent extinction rebellion protests on 11:29 - Apr 29 by chicoazul |
Weird how a lot of people had a go at me for pointing out something similar last week. |
If we are doing a "you were right all along theme" I'd suggest Callis is owed a board apology over his stance on veganism. The vitriol he received was consistent and from many quarters on here... | |
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