| Life through JC's eyes..... 12:05 - Jun 15 with 25768 views | hampstead_blue |
Even when caught on camera JC wants to support his mates.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48645280 |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:44 - Jun 15 with 2312 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 12:48 - Jun 15 by SpruceMoose |
More importantly who care what Hunt thinks. That waste of oxygen should be run out of politics alongside Fox. Zero credibility. If he says something I'm automatically inclined to disbelieve it. |
And even he isn't certain! |  |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:48 - Jun 15 with 2304 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 12:50 - Jun 15 by hampstead_blue |
When I was serving, we used to have booklets of kit the oppo's used so we could identify it.
I can't recall how many smoke bomb tubes a Russian BDM had but it was possibly 6.
I've still got a few somewhere.
My point is that the video shows enough for the int people to say pretty much nailed on who it was.
JC is trying to blow smoke across what is on video. |
Why has Hunt said "almost certainly"?
You're merely trying to smear Corbyn rather than look at it objectively. Even Bully (Sparks) in this thread, who is very anti Corbyn, is saying his approach is the correct way to be.
It may well be the Iranians, all Corbyn is asking for is definitive proof before we go in all guns blazing. The correct and proper thing to do. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:50 - Jun 15 with 2300 views | J2BLUE |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:07 - Jun 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Well if it was a toss up between believing the Japanese owner of the vessel and the crew, versus serial liar Trump, I know where my money would be.
Corbyn’s right in principle - yes, any condemnation should be made off the back of credible evidence. It’s just a bit hard to take given his views on these things. Can’t help but feel there’s more to his position than simply wanting to get to the bottom of what happened (maybe that’s unfair, I don’t know). |
I think his main priority is preventing war. War with Iran might just be our last war in the unlikely event Russia choose to step in. |  |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:51 - Jun 15 with 2294 views | Swansea_Blue |
Yeah, this is where my thinking was going on this without saying it explicitly. Is this another case of him taking another anti-Israel angle out of principle? I haven't been following this case closely at all, but I wouldn't take Corbyn at face value precisely because of his padt record. |  |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:55 - Jun 15 with 2286 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 12:52 - Jun 15 by ElderGrizzly |
Before we go in to anything resembling a war, we should of course get proof.
The UAE have shared evidence with us and the USA from these attacks and there is evidence linking to 4 previous attacks in May proven to be Iran.
I’m all for not taking the word of the USA for it, because Trump and Netanyahu will be in this together and it suits their political agenda in both countries.
I would trust our intelligence services though and the FCO assessment. We don’t get many things wrong |
Indeed. But even Jeremy Hunt has only said "almost certainly."
Further, "a strange discrepancy has emerged with the owner of the Japanese tanker disputing the ship was hit with a limpet mine. Instead, he says, the crew reported "flying objects"."
When the possible outcome is war, Corbyn's careful approach asking for solid evidence is 100% correct. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:57 - Jun 15 with 2281 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 12:58 - Jun 15 by hampstead_blue |
I did. I was in the Intelligence Corps of the Army.
It's a simple point because it is a simple point.
Caught on camera is pretty much it.
and to answer you other comment, in my trade we were trained to have our own minds. It was the inference that we gave which was reported to the higher-ups.
If the video shows the Iranians, it shows the Iranians. How can I or any Int analyst call it a Morris Minor?
All JC needs to do is go here; https://www.janes.com/ and he will find schematics of whatever he wants. [Post edited 15 Jun 2019 13:03]
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We don't know the video shows Iranians. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:57 - Jun 15 with 2280 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 12:59 - Jun 15 by Bluesquid |
The UAE are bombing women and children in Yemen, do you trust the UAE?
"I would trust our intelligence services though and the FCO assessment. We don’t get many things wrong"
"The Chilcot report identifies a series of major blunders by the British intelligence services that produced “flawed” information about Saddam’s alleged weapons of mass destruction, the basis for going to war."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/06/iraq-inquiry-key-points-from-the |
Boom! | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:57 - Jun 15 with 2280 views | hampstead_blue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:48 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
Why has Hunt said "almost certainly"?
You're merely trying to smear Corbyn rather than look at it objectively. Even Bully (Sparks) in this thread, who is very anti Corbyn, is saying his approach is the correct way to be.
It may well be the Iranians, all Corbyn is asking for is definitive proof before we go in all guns blazing. The correct and proper thing to do. |
How am I smearing JC?
I'm saying that Int analysts have called it. There is a video showing them at play.
I would say that if Hunt say's it's 'almost certain' he has had our analysts and the SIS all over it.
If JC got to be PM what would happen then? He'd deny everything the Russians and their group did until is was proven 100% and the problem with the Intelligence world is that unless you open the cupboard for all to see, you can't give-up everything.
You have to say we are sure......but JC seems to want more than that. He will ignore every briefing he will get.
Intelligence is rarely cut and dried. It's about probability. Judgement, knowledge, and experience. Our Int people are IMHO the world's best. They make mistakes, we all do.
If they say it, I'll believe it.
Oh, the WMD stuff written about Saddam was inputted by politicians. Def info. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:59 - Jun 15 with 2279 views | BrixtonBlue |
Whatabouterry. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:01 - Jun 15 with 2276 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:33 - Jun 15 by BobbyDazzler |
Yep very dangerous |
Yeah but just going along with Trump isn't! | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:02 - Jun 15 with 2272 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:44 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
And even he isn't certain! |
Downarrow from pickles... when I've literally quoted Hunt as not being certain! | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:08 - Jun 15 with 2257 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:50 - Jun 15 by J2BLUE |
I think his main priority is preventing war. War with Iran might just be our last war in the unlikely event Russia choose to step in. |
Maybe, although we also know what his views are about the Middle East. I honestly don't know and don't feel I can argue for one position or another. As I said originally, his approach here is commendable on the face of it but I'm still a bit cynical. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:08 - Jun 15 with 2257 views | hampstead_blue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:59 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
Whatabouterry. |
You would be great on 'Defend the in-defensible'.......
How do we get you onto Fighting Talk? :-) | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:09 - Jun 15 with 2258 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:57 - Jun 15 by hampstead_blue |
How am I smearing JC?
I'm saying that Int analysts have called it. There is a video showing them at play.
I would say that if Hunt say's it's 'almost certain' he has had our analysts and the SIS all over it.
If JC got to be PM what would happen then? He'd deny everything the Russians and their group did until is was proven 100% and the problem with the Intelligence world is that unless you open the cupboard for all to see, you can't give-up everything.
You have to say we are sure......but JC seems to want more than that. He will ignore every briefing he will get.
Intelligence is rarely cut and dried. It's about probability. Judgement, knowledge, and experience. Our Int people are IMHO the world's best. They make mistakes, we all do.
If they say it, I'll believe it.
Oh, the WMD stuff written about Saddam was inputted by politicians. Def info. |
You're smearing JC because your anti-Corbyn bias is all over this. Anyone objectively looking at it would be cautious of following what Trump says.
"If they say it, I'll believe it" - and yet they haven't said it. Hunt has said ALMOST certain.
I agree you can't know everything 100%. And if that was all there was to it I'd be inclined to agree it's the Iranians.
But then there's the awkward discrepancy, which you've failed to address.
"Yet a strange discrepancy has emerged with the owner of the Japanese tanker disputing the ship was hit with a limpet mine. Instead, he says, the crew reported "flying objects"."
What do you make of that?
And bearing that in mind, wouldn't you say Corbyn's caution is wise?! | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:11 - Jun 15 with 2252 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:08 - Jun 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Maybe, although we also know what his views are about the Middle East. I honestly don't know and don't feel I can argue for one position or another. As I said originally, his approach here is commendable on the face of it but I'm still a bit cynical. |
More or less cynical that Trump has ulterior motives? | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:13 - Jun 15 with 2248 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:08 - Jun 15 by hampstead_blue |
You would be great on 'Defend the in-defensible'.......
How do we get you onto Fighting Talk? :-) |
It's true though, Glassers constantly moans about whatabouterry... and yet here he is posting his own.
Now back to the debate.
"Yet a strange discrepancy has emerged with the owner of the Japanese tanker disputing the ship was hit with a limpet mine. Instead, he says, the crew reported "flying objects"."
You're still 100% sure Corbyn's caution at this stage is wrong?! | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:18 - Jun 15 with 2239 views | hampstead_blue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:13 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
It's true though, Glassers constantly moans about whatabouterry... and yet here he is posting his own.
Now back to the debate.
"Yet a strange discrepancy has emerged with the owner of the Japanese tanker disputing the ship was hit with a limpet mine. Instead, he says, the crew reported "flying objects"."
You're still 100% sure Corbyn's caution at this stage is wrong?! |
I agree the Japanese Capt did change his mind. However, I'm looking at the hard evidence.
I'm no SBS operator or Clearance diver so can't tell you what a mine strike looks like, but I do trust our analysts.
The pictures and video are what I am discussing.
The problem is that to ask for independent verification of intelligence would cripple our int services. JC simply has to accept that our analysts know their onions from leeks.
I'm very concerned that any time you question JC's mates when they carry out murder and attacks like the oil taker is that he will ignore it which simply empowers them more. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:18 - Jun 15 with 2239 views | BobbyDazzler |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:01 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
Yeah but just going along with Trump isn't! |
Support trump |  | | |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:22 - Jun 15 with 2232 views | Darth_Koont |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 12:41 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
Jeremy Hunt said responsibility for Thursday's attacks "almost certainly" lies with the Iranian regime. Corbyn has simply asked for credible evidence - because going in accusing people without it can lead to war.
It's the correct, and sensible approach.
And what are you on about "caught on camera"? Has anyone proven it's Iranians in the footage? |
Indeed. It's like nobody's learnt anything after Iraq.
And no, I don't trust the US or Israel when it comes to the Middle East - there's just too much ideology, islamophobia and money at play. Nor the UK government that dutifully tags along behind, for that matter. |  |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:23 - Jun 15 with 2230 views | eireblue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:08 - Jun 15 by Swansea_Blue |
Maybe, although we also know what his views are about the Middle East. I honestly don't know and don't feel I can argue for one position or another. As I said originally, his approach here is commendable on the face of it but I'm still a bit cynical. |
What is obvious, is that tankers were attacked.
There are drones in the area.
The priority should be to protect the ships, not start a war.
An opposition leader, could and probably should make such an argument. |  | | |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:27 - Jun 15 with 2214 views | StokieBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:55 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
Indeed. But even Jeremy Hunt has only said "almost certainly."
Further, "a strange discrepancy has emerged with the owner of the Japanese tanker disputing the ship was hit with a limpet mine. Instead, he says, the crew reported "flying objects"."
When the possible outcome is war, Corbyn's careful approach asking for solid evidence is 100% correct. |
In the interest of balance nobody has been able to verify that statement. It's been made by the owner and nobody else as far as I'm aware. Not even any quotes from the crew and human memory is very poor in these things.
The general public simply don't know at the moment, there isn't enough information. That's not saying governments don't know though.
SB [Post edited 15 Jun 2019 14:28]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:33 - Jun 15 with 2197 views | StokieBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:57 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
Boom! |
It's not boom.
Bluesquid plays this card every single time. You cannot base everything on historical events. By that rationale the UK intelligence forces can never be trusted ever again even though it's likely a lot of those people have moved on.
It's an annoying tactic deployed endlessly on here to take pops at the West.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:41 - Jun 15 with 2175 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:18 - Jun 15 by hampstead_blue |
I agree the Japanese Capt did change his mind. However, I'm looking at the hard evidence.
I'm no SBS operator or Clearance diver so can't tell you what a mine strike looks like, but I do trust our analysts.
The pictures and video are what I am discussing.
The problem is that to ask for independent verification of intelligence would cripple our int services. JC simply has to accept that our analysts know their onions from leeks.
I'm very concerned that any time you question JC's mates when they carry out murder and attacks like the oil taker is that he will ignore it which simply empowers them more. |
You can't just brush what the Japanese captain has said under the carpet. That he's thrown doubt on it is enough to urge caution. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:41 - Jun 15 with 2172 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:18 - Jun 15 by BobbyDazzler |
Support trump |
Why? | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:42 - Jun 15 with 2169 views | Bluesquid |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:33 - Jun 15 by StokieBlue |
It's not boom.
Bluesquid plays this card every single time. You cannot base everything on historical events. By that rationale the UK intelligence forces can never be trusted ever again even though it's likely a lot of those people have moved on.
It's an annoying tactic deployed endlessly on here to take pops at the West.
SB |
Elder Grizzly stated that our intelligence services don’t get many things wrong.
What i posted rather shows this not to be the case, my post was about his statement which is just plain wrong. |  | | |
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