| So these Labour delegates just: 17:52 - Sep 23 with 6713 views | SpruceMoose |
1) Voted down 'back remain now' motion.
2) Backed NEC statement calling for Labour to postpone decision on how to campaign in referendum.
Any Remainers out there still have a strong faith that voting Labour will get you what you want? |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 18:58 - Sep 23 with 2396 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 18:34 - Sep 23 by SpruceMoose |
Sure, let me know when you ask one |
In what way does forcing through a remain option via fpp represent a democratic choice? |  |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 18:58 - Sep 23 with 2395 views | Darth_Koont |
Ultimately it will be Remain but perhaps without the vitriol of the LibDem position.
Leavers have been ultimately cheated by an incompetent, self-serving Tory government that didn't try to negotiate the best deal for the country but for themselves. May and now Johnson were/are pushing solutions nobody wants
We're basically back where we were 3 years ago where the referendum could have been used as a mandate for a minimally damaging Norway-style deal. What other mandate does a narrow Leave vote give? Or allows for the GFA? And then faced with that option the likelihood that many people would just see Remaining as the best possible deal.
Struggling to see why that isn't the sensible option to backtrack from the divisions that this whole exercise has created. |  |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 18:59 - Sep 23 with 2393 views | SpruceMoose |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 18:58 - Sep 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
In what way does forcing through a remain option via fpp represent a democratic choice? |
Well, see, that's a very biased and loaded question isn't it? Have another crack at a more intellectually honest one. Last attempt mind you, got to run, UN is in town this week. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:03 - Sep 23 with 2385 views | JakeITFC |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 18:51 - Sep 23 by m14_blue |
What do you think are the chances of Labour opting to support leave?
They should tell us what they think is the best thing for the country and for the people they represent. |
I’m an ardent remainer so I’d obviously like that to be the outcome either way - I just don’t think it solves the underlying problems that caused the original result.
My hope is that the labour policy ties in with that - some people will see at as a power grab from Corbyn instead of addressing the issue and that’s likely to be the overwhelming public reaction to this news unfortunately.
All roads seem to be leading to turmoil. |  | | |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:04 - Sep 23 with 2379 views | factual_blue |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 18:53 - Sep 23 by SpruceMoose |
Very resilient too. |
Indeed. In fact, when I knocked them down, they just got back up again. |  |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:18 - Sep 23 with 2378 views | GlasgowBlue |
Just seen it on the news. What a stitch up. A show of hands clearly showed that the remain motion had won. The chair called it as won but the Gen Sec Jennie Formby overruled her and said it had lost. Quite incredible to watch if you get the chance. [Post edited 23 Sep 2019 19:19]
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:19 - Sep 23 with 2363 views | m14_blue |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:03 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC |
I’m an ardent remainer so I’d obviously like that to be the outcome either way - I just don’t think it solves the underlying problems that caused the original result.
My hope is that the labour policy ties in with that - some people will see at as a power grab from Corbyn instead of addressing the issue and that’s likely to be the overwhelming public reaction to this news unfortunately.
All roads seem to be leading to turmoil. |
I just think that this adds to the turmoil even more.
Like you, I was/am a remainer but I would respect Labour's position, and maybe even vote for them, if they said the best way to respect the referendum result is a soft Brexit.
However, this trying to be all things to all people is disingenuous, sooner or late they will need to commit to what they believe in. I really, really think that should be before they ask people to vote for them in the most important election for generations.
The really laughable thing is that it's also desperately bad politics. In trying to please everyone they are pleasing no one and I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see them utterly decimated in the election.
And hearing the delegates sing 'Oh Jeremy Corbyn' when the result came out makes me want to curl up in a ball and sob. This is the future of our country at stake, my daughter's future FFS. |  | | |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:19 - Sep 23 with 2366 views | SpruceMoose |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:18 - Sep 23 by GlasgowBlue |
Just seen it on the news. What a stitch up. A show of hands clearly showed that the remain motion had won. The chair called it as won but the Gen Sec Jennie Formby overruled her and said it had lost. Quite incredible to watch if you get the chance. [Post edited 23 Sep 2019 19:19]
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Jezza's mates:
 [Post edited 23 Sep 2019 19:19]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:24 - Sep 23 with 2348 views | m14_blue |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 18:56 - Sep 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
How can they possibly know before the outcome of negotiations? |
Then how can they possibly expect people to vote for them?
What odds will you give me on Labour campaigning to remain? | | | |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:28 - Sep 23 with 2350 views | sparks |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:18 - Sep 23 by GlasgowBlue |
Just seen it on the news. What a stitch up. A show of hands clearly showed that the remain motion had won. The chair called it as won but the Gen Sec Jennie Formby overruled her and said it had lost. Quite incredible to watch if you get the chance. [Post edited 23 Sep 2019 19:19]
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That is quite extraordinary footage.
Staggering.
And thats before the baffling triumphalism at winning a close vote against fellow party members who just happen to have a different view.
Its like an ideological cult. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:29 - Sep 23 with 2336 views | BlueBadger |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:21 - Sep 23 by GlasgowBlue |
Len Mccluskey has just called Beth Rigby a liar and that she should be ashamed of herself for saying that Jon Lansman isn't happy, even though Lansman actually tweeted his displeasure earlier.
I dread to think how this lot would behave if in government. |
Exactly like the current government? |  |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:29 - Sep 23 with 2341 views | JakeITFC |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:19 - Sep 23 by m14_blue |
I just think that this adds to the turmoil even more.
Like you, I was/am a remainer but I would respect Labour's position, and maybe even vote for them, if they said the best way to respect the referendum result is a soft Brexit.
However, this trying to be all things to all people is disingenuous, sooner or late they will need to commit to what they believe in. I really, really think that should be before they ask people to vote for them in the most important election for generations.
The really laughable thing is that it's also desperately bad politics. In trying to please everyone they are pleasing no one and I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see them utterly decimated in the election.
And hearing the delegates sing 'Oh Jeremy Corbyn' when the result came out makes me want to curl up in a ball and sob. This is the future of our country at stake, my daughter's future FFS. |
The awful politics bit is the most pertinent thing really, but I think they are a bit damned if they do and damned if they don’t now. Everything is so polarised that they’d just be seen as chasing after votes if they pick a side at this point.
In the cold light of day they’ve been quite reasonable on brexit from a democratic standpoint - respecting the result of the referendum, not just voting for the first deal that came along if it wasn’t the best possible one, doing their utmost to stop a no deal and effectively championing the closest thing to breaking the brexit impasse in the commons (Ken Clarke’s customs union).
Unfortunately this has been seen as non-committal (and I realise there is a very liberal touch of Rose-tinting to my review there), but it still seems to be that the most sensible thing to do (for the country going forward) is the Labour plan. | | | |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:32 - Sep 23 with 2327 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 18:59 - Sep 23 by SpruceMoose |
Well, see, that's a very biased and loaded question isn't it? Have another crack at a more intellectually honest one. Last attempt mind you, got to run, UN is in town this week. |
You are welcome to your hole.....keep digging....it isn't hard to see why you usually default to insults. | |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:36 - Sep 23 with 2315 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:24 - Sep 23 by m14_blue |
Then how can they possibly expect people to vote for them?
What odds will you give me on Labour campaigning to remain? |
What odds will you offer that we will have left before an election? | |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:38 - Sep 23 with 2306 views | Darth_Koont |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:03 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC |
I’m an ardent remainer so I’d obviously like that to be the outcome either way - I just don’t think it solves the underlying problems that caused the original result.
My hope is that the labour policy ties in with that - some people will see at as a power grab from Corbyn instead of addressing the issue and that’s likely to be the overwhelming public reaction to this news unfortunately.
All roads seem to be leading to turmoil. |
Well said.
We've had people take simplistic positions for 4 years on Brexit and it's led us to the worst ever government and a constitutional crisis.
Now, as a solution, there's a clamour for everybody to align themselves with new simplistic positions. That's the definition of madness right there. | |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:39 - Sep 23 with 2309 views | m14_blue |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:36 - Sep 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What odds will you offer that we will have left before an election? |
I've no idea frankly.
That's not what we're talking about though. | | | |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:40 - Sep 23 with 2307 views | SpruceMoose |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:32 - Sep 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You are welcome to your hole.....keep digging....it isn't hard to see why you usually default to insults. |
Excuse me sir, but you and your Sprucey hard on came into this thread asking these weird questions. Your questions are based on assumptions about what I think that just aren't true so why would I waste my time answering them? Clearly you have some kind of agenda here.
Come back tomorrow with more relevant questions and maybe we can try again. Quite honestly, your arrogance is staggering! | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:42 - Sep 23 with 2297 views | m14_blue |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:29 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC |
The awful politics bit is the most pertinent thing really, but I think they are a bit damned if they do and damned if they don’t now. Everything is so polarised that they’d just be seen as chasing after votes if they pick a side at this point.
In the cold light of day they’ve been quite reasonable on brexit from a democratic standpoint - respecting the result of the referendum, not just voting for the first deal that came along if it wasn’t the best possible one, doing their utmost to stop a no deal and effectively championing the closest thing to breaking the brexit impasse in the commons (Ken Clarke’s customs union).
Unfortunately this has been seen as non-committal (and I realise there is a very liberal touch of Rose-tinting to my review there), but it still seems to be that the most sensible thing to do (for the country going forward) is the Labour plan. |
Good post.
As I've explained, I disagree completely with your conclusions but appreciate the argument. I think you give far too much credit to Corbyn and suspect that the overwhelming majority of the electorate may agree with me. | | | |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:50 - Sep 23 with 2270 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:39 - Sep 23 by m14_blue |
I've no idea frankly.
That's not what we're talking about though. |
If we leave before an election do you expect parties to offer to take us back in based on a G.E? | |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:51 - Sep 23 with 2273 views | m14_blue |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:50 - Sep 23 by BanksterDebtSlave |
If we leave before an election do you expect parties to offer to take us back in based on a G.E? |
No | | | |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 20:48 - Sep 23 with 2241 views | BloomBlue |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:29 - Sep 23 by JakeITFC |
The awful politics bit is the most pertinent thing really, but I think they are a bit damned if they do and damned if they don’t now. Everything is so polarised that they’d just be seen as chasing after votes if they pick a side at this point.
In the cold light of day they’ve been quite reasonable on brexit from a democratic standpoint - respecting the result of the referendum, not just voting for the first deal that came along if it wasn’t the best possible one, doing their utmost to stop a no deal and effectively championing the closest thing to breaking the brexit impasse in the commons (Ken Clarke’s customs union).
Unfortunately this has been seen as non-committal (and I realise there is a very liberal touch of Rose-tinting to my review there), but it still seems to be that the most sensible thing to do (for the country going forward) is the Labour plan. |
But the public won't see it like that, it plays into the inability to make a decision.
Also Starmer is saying the second referendum will have to occur within 6 months max, what if they cannot get any deal in that time are they going to public with the option of leave with no deal or remain after they've said they would never accept a no deal. Or if they cannot get a deal within 6 months extend again?
Remainers will only see more potential delays whereas with LibDems they will know 100% Brexit will be revoked.
Brexiters won't vote Labour because again they'll see more potential delays in leaving.
That's the problem when you appear to be sitting on a fence and everyone else us is making decisive decisions
Ultimately the trouble for Labour is Corbyn doesnt want to be in the EU he's one of the most passionate Brexiteers ever.
If Labour want to win the next GE they need to kick out Corbyn now. |  | | |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 20:50 - Sep 23 with 2239 views | sparks |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 20:48 - Sep 23 by BloomBlue |
But the public won't see it like that, it plays into the inability to make a decision.
Also Starmer is saying the second referendum will have to occur within 6 months max, what if they cannot get any deal in that time are they going to public with the option of leave with no deal or remain after they've said they would never accept a no deal. Or if they cannot get a deal within 6 months extend again?
Remainers will only see more potential delays whereas with LibDems they will know 100% Brexit will be revoked.
Brexiters won't vote Labour because again they'll see more potential delays in leaving.
That's the problem when you appear to be sitting on a fence and everyone else us is making decisive decisions
Ultimately the trouble for Labour is Corbyn doesnt want to be in the EU he's one of the most passionate Brexiteers ever.
If Labour want to win the next GE they need to kick out Corbyn now. |
It also means that you have no idea what you are voting for. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 20:54 - Sep 23 with 2234 views | Trequartista |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 17:58 - Sep 23 by m14_blue |
They’ve just signed their own electoral death warrant.
How can they not see it?
They’ll hold a special one day conference AFTER the election to decide their position. FFS, it’s just pathetic and also so badly misjudged. |
To be fair, the alternative (referendum and campaign for remain) will see them telling the electorate they will negotiate a deal and campaign against that deal. Either way is electoral suicide. |  |
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| So these Labour delegates just: on 21:12 - Sep 23 with 2211 views | TractorWood |
| So these Labour delegates just: on 19:18 - Sep 23 by GlasgowBlue |
Just seen it on the news. What a stitch up. A show of hands clearly showed that the remain motion had won. The chair called it as won but the Gen Sec Jennie Formby overruled her and said it had lost. Quite incredible to watch if you get the chance. [Post edited 23 Sep 2019 19:19]
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So they've inconclusively agreed to continue to not take a position on an issue stemming from a referendum 3 years ago. Vintage. |  |
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