| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares 17:33 - Nov 9 with 38388 views | BlueJudge |
Yes, we support the incessant singing, possibly even the drummer. But if you want to win hearts and minds, leave the flares at home. Distance yourself from those that would taint what you are achieving. |  | | |  |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:17 - Nov 11 with 2035 views | Blue_Order |
For the record, there were two smoke bombs set off of in Section 5 on Saturday, and neither of them were by BA members.
We were all too busy carrying on the conversations we were having during the minutes silence to think about using any pyro. |  | | |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:21 - Nov 11 with 2021 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:14 - Nov 11 by Ely_Blue |
And this is the problem, if the club/authorities banned only 1 person then surely it would put an end to the nonsense once and for all? A zero tolerance policy would surely work? |
Or they're encouraging the use? |  |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:23 - Nov 11 with 2014 views | SouperJim |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:14 - Nov 11 by Ely_Blue |
And this is the problem, if the club/authorities banned only 1 person then surely it would put an end to the nonsense once and for all? A zero tolerance policy would surely work? |
Take it up with the club then, rather than getting all keyboard warrior on here? At the moment, it appears the club are happy that the fans are enjoying themselves, rather than panicking that letting a bit of smoke off at the football is crime of the century and scores of folk are going to collapse/be horribly burned as a result. |  |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:24 - Nov 11 with 2011 views | Ely_Blue |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:21 - Nov 11 by Reuser_is_God |
Or they're encouraging the use? |
That could be a dangerous strategy given that it’s not the club who make the laws of the land but could not really be seen to be turning a blind eye if it would lead to sanctions against the club which has been suggested in the past as an action against clubs who don’t clamp down |  |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:26 - Nov 11 with 1999 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:24 - Nov 11 by Ely_Blue |
That could be a dangerous strategy given that it’s not the club who make the laws of the land but could not really be seen to be turning a blind eye if it would lead to sanctions against the club which has been suggested in the past as an action against clubs who don’t clamp down |
Or people can stop wetting themselves about a bit of smoke? | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:28 - Nov 11 with 1994 views | SouperJim |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:24 - Nov 11 by Ely_Blue |
That could be a dangerous strategy given that it’s not the club who make the laws of the land but could not really be seen to be turning a blind eye if it would lead to sanctions against the club which has been suggested in the past as an action against clubs who don’t clamp down |
What, like how they clamp down on clubs who don't combat persistent standing in all seater stadia? I presume you sit all game in the north stand, oh paragon of virtue? | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:32 - Nov 11 with 1984 views | Blue_Moses |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 11:52 - Nov 11 by Reuser_is_God |
I very much doubt that all the smoke bombs let of in the SBRL have resulted in a ban. |
Don't recall people getting upset about them being let off at away games over the past few years? | | | |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:48 - Nov 11 with 1953 views | Ryorry |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:26 - Nov 11 by Reuser_is_God |
Or people can stop wetting themselves about a bit of smoke? |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35402735
Flares are used for marine distress
They are designed not to be extinguished easily or quickly.
They contain chemicals
And can burn at temperatures of 1600°C - the melting point of steel.
Smoke bombs are mainly used recreationally in paintballing and war games
They also burn at high temperatures
They are designed to be used in wide open spaces.
And they are dangerous for those who suffer from asthma
"Somebody is going to get hurt. We've had a couple of real near misses, but it is potentially really quite life threatening." Assistant Chief Constable Bernard Higgins.
https://www.peppermintbars.co.uk/flares-and-smoke-bombs-into-football-matches/
"A worrying 28% thought flares and smoke bombs were less dangerous than fireworks. Flares burn at the melting point of steel and contain toxic chemicals. Designed for marine distress, they are deliberately difficult to extinguish. Smoke bombs also burn at high temperatures and are not designed for use in confined spaces. They can cause panic in a tightly packed crowd and trigger asthma attacks."
"Alan Weir, Head of Medical Services at St John Ambulance, said: “We know that St John Ambulance volunteers have treated people for burns and smoke inhalation caused by flares at several football grounds. These cases could have led to disfigurement or other serious injuries.”
"The majority of fans support more action against this growing problem, with parents, an increasing proportion of Premier League spectators, particularly concerned. Two thirds of parents said the increased use of pyrotechnics is putting them off bringing their children to matches and 81% wanted more done to tackle the issue." |  |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:51 - Nov 11 with 1941 views | SouperJim |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:48 - Nov 11 by Ryorry |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-35402735
Flares are used for marine distress
They are designed not to be extinguished easily or quickly.
They contain chemicals
And can burn at temperatures of 1600°C - the melting point of steel.
Smoke bombs are mainly used recreationally in paintballing and war games
They also burn at high temperatures
They are designed to be used in wide open spaces.
And they are dangerous for those who suffer from asthma
"Somebody is going to get hurt. We've had a couple of real near misses, but it is potentially really quite life threatening." Assistant Chief Constable Bernard Higgins.
https://www.peppermintbars.co.uk/flares-and-smoke-bombs-into-football-matches/
"A worrying 28% thought flares and smoke bombs were less dangerous than fireworks. Flares burn at the melting point of steel and contain toxic chemicals. Designed for marine distress, they are deliberately difficult to extinguish. Smoke bombs also burn at high temperatures and are not designed for use in confined spaces. They can cause panic in a tightly packed crowd and trigger asthma attacks."
"Alan Weir, Head of Medical Services at St John Ambulance, said: “We know that St John Ambulance volunteers have treated people for burns and smoke inhalation caused by flares at several football grounds. These cases could have led to disfigurement or other serious injuries.”
"The majority of fans support more action against this growing problem, with parents, an increasing proportion of Premier League spectators, particularly concerned. Two thirds of parents said the increased use of pyrotechnics is putting them off bringing their children to matches and 81% wanted more done to tackle the issue." |
I've never ever seen a flare let off at an Ipswich game and I would agree that those are dangerous. People see a smoke bomb and say "flare", as they don't know the difference. There is a lot of difference. | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:54 - Nov 11 with 1933 views | Ely_Blue |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:51 - Nov 11 by SouperJim |
I've never ever seen a flare let off at an Ipswich game and I would agree that those are dangerous. People see a smoke bomb and say "flare", as they don't know the difference. There is a lot of difference. |
In the eyes of the law to carry either in public with the intent to take them into a football ground, let alone let one off is an offence. | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:55 - Nov 11 with 1931 views | Ryorry |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:51 - Nov 11 by SouperJim |
I've never ever seen a flare let off at an Ipswich game and I would agree that those are dangerous. People see a smoke bomb and say "flare", as they don't know the difference. There is a lot of difference. |
"Smoke bombs also burn at high temperatures and are not designed for use in confined spaces. They can cause panic in a tightly packed crowd and trigger asthma attacks." | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:57 - Nov 11 with 1921 views | SouperJim |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:54 - Nov 11 by Ely_Blue |
In the eyes of the law to carry either in public with the intent to take them into a football ground, let alone let one off is an offence. |
So is standing throughout the game in a seated area, care to answer my previous question? | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:07 - Nov 11 with 1896 views | SouperJim |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:55 - Nov 11 by Ryorry |
"Smoke bombs also burn at high temperatures and are not designed for use in confined spaces. They can cause panic in a tightly packed crowd and trigger asthma attacks." |
Yes I believe they do get hot at the business end, but so does a cup of tea. It's highly debatable whether the north stand could be considered a confined space and I've never seen anyone appear panicked by their use. We have a few anecdotal accounts, including my own, that we have asthma sufferers in the stand who are not adversely affected.
Are they significantly dangerous? I honestly don't think so. I do understand the argument, but I also think there is a strong element of people just getting upset by the kickback against a decade of portman road having become library-esque. | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:09 - Nov 11 with 1889 views | Ely_Blue |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 12:57 - Nov 11 by SouperJim |
So is standing throughout the game in a seated area, care to answer my previous question? |
One is a civil matter (standing at all seater football stadiums) and the other is a criminal matter (punishable by law).
http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/standing/the-legalities-of-standing
If the club chooses not to eject people for standing then that is there prerogative and anyone who goes into the SBRL would know before the game that this happens in that location, unlike if I had been next to the guys who set the smoke bombs off on Saturday as I would assume they would obey the law!
Try again sunshine | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:10 - Nov 11 with 1885 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:09 - Nov 11 by Ely_Blue |
One is a civil matter (standing at all seater football stadiums) and the other is a criminal matter (punishable by law).
http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/standing/the-legalities-of-standing
If the club chooses not to eject people for standing then that is there prerogative and anyone who goes into the SBRL would know before the game that this happens in that location, unlike if I had been next to the guys who set the smoke bombs off on Saturday as I would assume they would obey the law!
Try again sunshine |
Thanks for that Judge Judy | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:15 - Nov 11 with 1859 views | SouperJim |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:09 - Nov 11 by Ely_Blue |
One is a civil matter (standing at all seater football stadiums) and the other is a criminal matter (punishable by law).
http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/standing/the-legalities-of-standing
If the club chooses not to eject people for standing then that is there prerogative and anyone who goes into the SBRL would know before the game that this happens in that location, unlike if I had been next to the guys who set the smoke bombs off on Saturday as I would assume they would obey the law!
Try again sunshine |
So you're happy to flout ground regulations, just not ones backed up by law? You're happy for the club to pick and choose what they enforce when it suits you, but complain when it doesn't?
If the club chooses not to ban people for letting off a smoke bomb then that is their prerogative and anyone who goes into the SBRL would know before the game that this happens in that location.
Simple, isn't it. | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:15 - Nov 11 with 1861 views | Ryorry |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:07 - Nov 11 by SouperJim |
Yes I believe they do get hot at the business end, but so does a cup of tea. It's highly debatable whether the north stand could be considered a confined space and I've never seen anyone appear panicked by their use. We have a few anecdotal accounts, including my own, that we have asthma sufferers in the stand who are not adversely affected.
Are they significantly dangerous? I honestly don't think so. I do understand the argument, but I also think there is a strong element of people just getting upset by the kickback against a decade of portman road having become library-esque. |
"I also think there is a strong element of people just getting upset by the kickback against a decade of portman road having become library-esque"
That may be true for some, I wouldn't know, but for the record, it isn't for me - I appreciate as much noise, singing, drumbanging etc as anyone, & will always participate in those when I'm able to go (which sadly isn't a lot these days :( ). I'm just one of those with allergies to chemicals & have asthma; and don't want to see anyone injured, banned, or the club penalised because there's been an "incident"
Appreciate your reasoned answer anyway! [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 13:16]
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:17 - Nov 11 with 1851 views | SouperJim |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:15 - Nov 11 by Ryorry |
"I also think there is a strong element of people just getting upset by the kickback against a decade of portman road having become library-esque"
That may be true for some, I wouldn't know, but for the record, it isn't for me - I appreciate as much noise, singing, drumbanging etc as anyone, & will always participate in those when I'm able to go (which sadly isn't a lot these days :( ). I'm just one of those with allergies to chemicals & have asthma; and don't want to see anyone injured, banned, or the club penalised because there's been an "incident"
Appreciate your reasoned answer anyway! [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 13:16]
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Fair enough, I respect your viewpoint. | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:18 - Nov 11 with 1848 views | Ely_Blue |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:15 - Nov 11 by SouperJim |
So you're happy to flout ground regulations, just not ones backed up by law? You're happy for the club to pick and choose what they enforce when it suits you, but complain when it doesn't?
If the club chooses not to ban people for letting off a smoke bomb then that is their prerogative and anyone who goes into the SBRL would know before the game that this happens in that location.
Simple, isn't it. |
It’s not up to the club if someone gets prosecuted for letting off a smoke bomb or any other pyrotechnic, it’s the LAW, if it is picked up by the police in the control box they can prosecute, you cannot be prosecuted for a civil offence that the club allows to happen, the club can be taken to task for fans “persistent standing”
Do keep up | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:20 - Nov 11 with 1843 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 21:37 - Nov 10 by Ryorry |
Some people obviously can't even be a*d to spend a couple of minutes glancing at the links I posted, because if they did and had a shred of intelligence or care for other people, they'd immediately change their mind about wanting flares/smoke bombs at football grounds upon seeing the horrific, life-changing injuries and/or damage to health that can be caused. Including their own. Not surprised therefore that they think such things as "legality is bullsh1t". |
It’s a wonder we haven’t had scores of people keeling over at football games up and down the country in recent years, given the increasing regularity of smoke bombs and how life threatening they are |  |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:28 - Nov 11 with 1824 views | SouperJim |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:18 - Nov 11 by Ely_Blue |
It’s not up to the club if someone gets prosecuted for letting off a smoke bomb or any other pyrotechnic, it’s the LAW, if it is picked up by the police in the control box they can prosecute, you cannot be prosecuted for a civil offence that the club allows to happen, the club can be taken to task for fans “persistent standing”
Do keep up |
So it's specifically the legalities of it you're concerned with? You must have kittens every game, what with all the section 5 public order offences going on all around you. | |
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:48 - Nov 11 with 1794 views | itfcdarren |
I am an asthma sufferer myself, and have never had an issue with these (or fireworks for that matter).
It's pretty clear that people on here have their own agenda against smoke bombs/flares and are just using asthma as an excuse to push their own position.
Any genuine sufferers will be well aware that the types of pyro mentioned have no effect on them whatsoever. | | | |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:51 - Nov 11 with 1788 views | Stu_Magoo |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 21:48 - Nov 10 by Melford |
Norwood has to do this after one of his goals. I do like a good Ric Flair WOOOO! |
Sadly I DM'd him on Twitter whilst drunk in the Spread Eagle one afternoon (suggested the strut and accompanying Wooo) and it never arrived.
Bad Times. [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 13:54]
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:58 - Nov 11 with 1762 views | Ryorry |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:48 - Nov 11 by itfcdarren |
I am an asthma sufferer myself, and have never had an issue with these (or fireworks for that matter).
It's pretty clear that people on here have their own agenda against smoke bombs/flares and are just using asthma as an excuse to push their own position.
Any genuine sufferers will be well aware that the types of pyro mentioned have no effect on them whatsoever. |
Most genuine sufferers would be very well aware that there as many different ways of asthma affecting people as there are asthma sufferers themselves tbh - suggest you have a general read of the asthma section of this site incl. the asthma forum -
https://healthunlocked.com/ [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 14:03]
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| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 14:02 - Nov 11 with 1750 views | itfcdarren |
| Blue Action, take action against those that carry flares on 13:58 - Nov 11 by Ryorry |
Most genuine sufferers would be very well aware that there as many different ways of asthma affecting people as there are asthma sufferers themselves tbh - suggest you have a general read of the asthma section of this site incl. the asthma forum -
https://healthunlocked.com/ [Post edited 11 Nov 2019 14:03]
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If I was genuinely affected and worried about it, I would consider that I am in the very small minority. Other than sitting in a family enclosure, I would me more inclined to just stay at home as opposed to ruining fun for everybody else?
But then again, I'm not a selfish prick. | | | |
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