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free broadband for all 22:08 - Nov 14 with 6376 viewslowhouseblue

nationalising bt and we all get free broad band. cool.
come on labour, add sky to the list so that we get free sky sports as well - what's the point of having the free broadband otherwise.
yeah free stuff.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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free broadband for all on 22:12 - Nov 14 with 2596 viewsDubtractor

I posted this the other day, feel like it should be reposted.

"And whilst I am a Labour voter, prob my biggest frustration with the current lot is that they are trying to offer literally everything possible from a left wing utopia perspective. It makes it too easy for people to criticise them for reckless spending.

There are lots of things that need sorting, and need sorting really quickly. Re nationalising utilities or rail for example are not in that category for me, much as I feel that they should never have been privatised to enable foreign companies to run all our utilities and railways!"

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free broadband for all on 22:13 - Nov 14 with 2592 viewsJ2BLUE

Starting to cringe every time they announce something like this. If remain was project fear this is project bribe.

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free broadband for all on 22:14 - Nov 14 with 2582 viewslowhouseblue

free broadband for all on 22:12 - Nov 14 by Dubtractor

I posted this the other day, feel like it should be reposted.

"And whilst I am a Labour voter, prob my biggest frustration with the current lot is that they are trying to offer literally everything possible from a left wing utopia perspective. It makes it too easy for people to criticise them for reckless spending.

There are lots of things that need sorting, and need sorting really quickly. Re nationalising utilities or rail for example are not in that category for me, much as I feel that they should never have been privatised to enable foreign companies to run all our utilities and railways!"


spoil sport. it's going to be FREE. FREE, i say, FREE.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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free broadband for all on 22:15 - Nov 14 with 2581 viewsClapham_Junction

Given that internet access now nearly as basic a requirement for most people as having a road outside their house, I don't think it's that silly an idea for it to be turned into a public service and funded from taxation. Also, given how much public money has been funnelled to BT to try and get them to improve the network in recent years, it's not as if we haven't contributed much to it already.

With ever-increasing services being dependent on broadband, still having sh1t access is going to be a big problem going forwards.
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free broadband for all on 22:19 - Nov 14 with 2544 viewslowhouseblue

free broadband for all on 22:15 - Nov 14 by Clapham_Junction

Given that internet access now nearly as basic a requirement for most people as having a road outside their house, I don't think it's that silly an idea for it to be turned into a public service and funded from taxation. Also, given how much public money has been funnelled to BT to try and get them to improve the network in recent years, it's not as if we haven't contributed much to it already.

With ever-increasing services being dependent on broadband, still having sh1t access is going to be a big problem going forwards.


and smart phones are now nearly as basic a requirement for most people as having a road outside their house - so free mobiles too. (when i say free, obviously i mean tax someone else).

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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free broadband for all on 22:22 - Nov 14 with 2531 viewstabletopjoe

Why don’t Labour just cut to the chase and announce free money for everyone? Then they will finally have the total control and power that they crave. It would make it much clearer for everyone what they are actually about. Instead of slowly drip feeding these measures and hiding their true intentions.

'Let the ignorant argue with themselves' -- CL

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free broadband for all on 22:22 - Nov 14 with 2535 viewsStokieBlue

"A Labour government would compensate shareholders by issuing government bonds."

"As with other planned Labour nationalisations, he said MPs would set the value of the company at the time of it being taken into public ownership."


I notice that many of the promises they are making are for 3 governmental terms in the future - they are saying this will be by 2030. I wonder how clearly that will be communicated.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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free broadband for all on 22:24 - Nov 14 with 2524 viewsClapham_Junction

free broadband for all on 22:19 - Nov 14 by lowhouseblue

and smart phones are now nearly as basic a requirement for most people as having a road outside their house - so free mobiles too. (when i say free, obviously i mean tax someone else).


Infrastructure and utilities are clearly different to goods.

It's not unusual for utilities to be paid for from taxation (water is still included in rates in NI). I'd say of all the utilities, broadband is the one that makes the most sense to be centrally funded, as with others (energy/water) charging based on usage is seen as desirable (by some) as it discourages wasteful use. However, most people have effectively unlimited broadband, so there is less need to discourage use in this way.
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free broadband for all on 22:24 - Nov 14 with 2515 viewsBluefish

At the moment everyone pays for their own, it will still need paying for but presumably some will now pay for others. It that isn't the case it is pointless, if it is it is possible unfair

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free broadband for all on 22:27 - Nov 14 with 2506 viewsStokieBlue

free broadband for all on 22:15 - Nov 14 by Clapham_Junction

Given that internet access now nearly as basic a requirement for most people as having a road outside their house, I don't think it's that silly an idea for it to be turned into a public service and funded from taxation. Also, given how much public money has been funnelled to BT to try and get them to improve the network in recent years, it's not as if we haven't contributed much to it already.

With ever-increasing services being dependent on broadband, still having sh1t access is going to be a big problem going forwards.


Surely this would fall foul of some EU rules?

Virgin have spent loads laying their own infrastructure and to have that suddenly usurped by a free service for all (essentially this would bankrupt them) must carry some issues.

I am still against McDonnell deciding the price for these purchases and then funding them in government bonds. I know you don't think that will have repercussions for external investment in the UK but if your investment can be suddenly seized and you are compensated in assets rather than cash I think it could put a lot of companies off.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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free broadband for all on 22:27 - Nov 14 with 2507 viewslowhouseblue

free broadband for all on 22:22 - Nov 14 by StokieBlue

"A Labour government would compensate shareholders by issuing government bonds."

"As with other planned Labour nationalisations, he said MPs would set the value of the company at the time of it being taken into public ownership."


I notice that many of the promises they are making are for 3 governmental terms in the future - they are saying this will be by 2030. I wonder how clearly that will be communicated.

SB


my serious response to this is that it's very odd. it has a feeling of panic. it's an odd time to issue something big - just too late for the 10pm news. it's mcdonnell not corbyn. it comes after a number of days when the leader's office seems to have been wrong sided multiple times and has had to re-issue a whole series of positions. it feels like they're trying to get back control of the agenda - with mcdonnell's office trying to take the initiative form corbyn's. everything about this one seems odd to me.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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free broadband for all on 22:29 - Nov 14 with 2492 viewslowhouseblue

free broadband for all on 22:24 - Nov 14 by Clapham_Junction

Infrastructure and utilities are clearly different to goods.

It's not unusual for utilities to be paid for from taxation (water is still included in rates in NI). I'd say of all the utilities, broadband is the one that makes the most sense to be centrally funded, as with others (energy/water) charging based on usage is seen as desirable (by some) as it discourages wasteful use. However, most people have effectively unlimited broadband, so there is less need to discourage use in this way.


but what will it displace from the government budget? or how high will taxes go?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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free broadband for all on 22:30 - Nov 14 with 2482 viewsjeera

free broadband for all on 22:19 - Nov 14 by lowhouseblue

and smart phones are now nearly as basic a requirement for most people as having a road outside their house - so free mobiles too. (when i say free, obviously i mean tax someone else).


That doesn't make sense. That could only be likened to free PCs or other devices.

That's not the same as having the infrastructure available at cheapest cost possible..

If everyone pays a nominal fee and the service is state owned, where's the issue?

Most of the providers are virtual anyway and have to rely on the network owners to make repairs and maintain the service.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 22:31]

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
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free broadband for all on 22:32 - Nov 14 with 2469 viewslowhouseblue

free broadband for all on 22:30 - Nov 14 by jeera

That doesn't make sense. That could only be likened to free PCs or other devices.

That's not the same as having the infrastructure available at cheapest cost possible..

If everyone pays a nominal fee and the service is state owned, where's the issue?

Most of the providers are virtual anyway and have to rely on the network owners to make repairs and maintain the service.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 22:31]


ok so you buy your own handset and the service / network is then free. cool.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 22:33]

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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free broadband for all on 22:34 - Nov 14 with 2451 viewsClapham_Junction

free broadband for all on 22:29 - Nov 14 by lowhouseblue

but what will it displace from the government budget? or how high will taxes go?


Presumably every time a service has been taken on by the state it has required greater tax take. However, there would also be a saving to households on no longer having a broadband bill.

The main questions to consider (IMO) would be (a) whether government can deliver it more cheaply than the market (this should be possible as there will be savings on no longer having billing systems and replacing multiple companies with their own structures with a single organisation), and (b) whether government should provide the service to ensure it is available to all citizens and at roughly the same level of quality.
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free broadband for all on 22:39 - Nov 14 with 2426 viewsClapham_Junction

free broadband for all on 22:27 - Nov 14 by StokieBlue

Surely this would fall foul of some EU rules?

Virgin have spent loads laying their own infrastructure and to have that suddenly usurped by a free service for all (essentially this would bankrupt them) must carry some issues.

I am still against McDonnell deciding the price for these purchases and then funding them in government bonds. I know you don't think that will have repercussions for external investment in the UK but if your investment can be suddenly seized and you are compensated in assets rather than cash I think it could put a lot of companies off.

SB


Given that some utilities are funded through taxation within some EU countries, I'm not sure.

The sensible solution would be to take on the Virgin network as well. In the long run, it's incredibly inefficient to have two parallel systems - imagine having each electricity firm having their own set of cables.
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free broadband for all on 22:42 - Nov 14 with 2412 viewsStokieBlue

free broadband for all on 22:39 - Nov 14 by Clapham_Junction

Given that some utilities are funded through taxation within some EU countries, I'm not sure.

The sensible solution would be to take on the Virgin network as well. In the long run, it's incredibly inefficient to have two parallel systems - imagine having each electricity firm having their own set of cables.


That's not renationalisation though, that's literally seizing assets from a privately owned company at whatever price the government deems fit.

The issue isn't about funding - it's the fact that Virgin will literally be bankrupted by the government - why would anyone pay if you can get it for free?

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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free broadband for all on 22:48 - Nov 14 with 2391 viewsClapham_Junction

free broadband for all on 22:42 - Nov 14 by StokieBlue

That's not renationalisation though, that's literally seizing assets from a privately owned company at whatever price the government deems fit.

The issue isn't about funding - it's the fact that Virgin will literally be bankrupted by the government - why would anyone pay if you can get it for free?

SB


I didn't say that Virgin (or BT) shouldn't be compensated.
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free broadband for all on 22:50 - Nov 14 with 2380 viewsjeera

free broadband for all on 22:32 - Nov 14 by lowhouseblue

ok so you buy your own handset and the service / network is then free. cool.
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 22:33]


Nothing is literally free and you seem incapable of having a chat without some attitude nowadays.

I said nominal fee.

As for Virgin, it's hard to feel anything resembling pity towards them frankly.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
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free broadband for all on 22:50 - Nov 14 with 2380 viewslowhouseblue

free broadband for all on 22:34 - Nov 14 by Clapham_Junction

Presumably every time a service has been taken on by the state it has required greater tax take. However, there would also be a saving to households on no longer having a broadband bill.

The main questions to consider (IMO) would be (a) whether government can deliver it more cheaply than the market (this should be possible as there will be savings on no longer having billing systems and replacing multiple companies with their own structures with a single organisation), and (b) whether government should provide the service to ensure it is available to all citizens and at roughly the same level of quality.


governments don't have a great record on delivering stuff cheaply. what's the budget for hs2 now? you just end up with a state monopoly - which isn't something that is usually associated with good consumer value. particularly if the costs are met from the bottomless pit of taxation.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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free broadband for all on 22:51 - Nov 14 with 2375 viewsStokieBlue

free broadband for all on 22:48 - Nov 14 by Clapham_Junction

I didn't say that Virgin (or BT) shouldn't be compensated.


That's not really the point though is it? Perhaps they don't want their infrastructure taken from them without recourse, especially as McDonnell has said compensation to shareholders in all these purchases won't be at market rate.

I just think this is more complex than nationalisation of utilities or trains because there is still privately owned competition rather than monopolies. It's just a bit of a slippery slope in my opinion - it could literally lead anywhere - privatisation of Sainsbury's then undercutting of the prices of other supermarkets using tax revenue driving them out of business.

A silly example but illustrates the point.

SB
[Post edited 14 Nov 2019 22:53]

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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free broadband for all on 22:53 - Nov 14 with 2362 viewsBackToRussia

free broadband for all on 22:50 - Nov 14 by jeera

Nothing is literally free and you seem incapable of having a chat without some attitude nowadays.

I said nominal fee.

As for Virgin, it's hard to feel anything resembling pity towards them frankly.


He doesn't like it when profits go down.

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free broadband for all on 22:53 - Nov 14 with 2352 viewslowhouseblue

free broadband for all on 22:50 - Nov 14 by jeera

Nothing is literally free and you seem incapable of having a chat without some attitude nowadays.

I said nominal fee.

As for Virgin, it's hard to feel anything resembling pity towards them frankly.


what's a nominal fee? is it more or less than the 'free' which mcdonnell has just promised?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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free broadband for all on 22:59 - Nov 14 with 2316 viewsRyorry

free broadband for all on 22:27 - Nov 14 by lowhouseblue

my serious response to this is that it's very odd. it has a feeling of panic. it's an odd time to issue something big - just too late for the 10pm news. it's mcdonnell not corbyn. it comes after a number of days when the leader's office seems to have been wrong sided multiple times and has had to re-issue a whole series of positions. it feels like they're trying to get back control of the agenda - with mcdonnell's office trying to take the initiative form corbyn's. everything about this one seems odd to me.


It did make BBC1 10pm news.

I just don't get it tho, seems very odd & actually minor in terms of what people want, which is putting most of what's available into the NHS/social care for vulnerable people in the community (children, elderly, disabled) + other essential sevices such as police, fire etc.

BT doesn't reach rural communities like ours yet, but no-one really objects to paying £20 monthly (or £25 for a higher speed) for a LAN broadband network operated by an excellent independent. What they do object to is not being able to get an appointment with their GP for 5 (five ) weeks unless it's so urgent that they have to ring up at 7.59am to try and beat the queue for a same-day real crisis type health issue.

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free broadband for all on 23:00 - Nov 14 with 2309 viewsBackToRussia

free broadband for all on 22:59 - Nov 14 by Ryorry

It did make BBC1 10pm news.

I just don't get it tho, seems very odd & actually minor in terms of what people want, which is putting most of what's available into the NHS/social care for vulnerable people in the community (children, elderly, disabled) + other essential sevices such as police, fire etc.

BT doesn't reach rural communities like ours yet, but no-one really objects to paying £20 monthly (or £25 for a higher speed) for a LAN broadband network operated by an excellent independent. What they do object to is not being able to get an appointment with their GP for 5 (five ) weeks unless it's so urgent that they have to ring up at 7.59am to try and beat the queue for a same-day real crisis type health issue.


They're announcing multiple things per day, including about the NHS...

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Poll: Neil Young or Lynyrd Skynyrd - there is no middle ground.

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