| free broadband for all 22:08 - Nov 14 with 12743 views | lowhouseblue |
nationalising bt and we all get free broad band. cool.
come on labour, add sky to the list so that we get free sky sports as well - what's the point of having the free broadband otherwise.
yeah free stuff. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| free broadband for all on 08:19 - Nov 15 with 1976 views | StokieBlue |
| free broadband for all on 08:11 - Nov 15 by BackToRussia |
I dunno about you, but our broadband bill is about 80 quid. Would be a saving of a grand a year.
I'm not sure I quite get the argument that good things can dilute other things.
The broadband thing is scheduled for 2030 isn't it? |
If a Tory were to cite saving money as a reason for supporting a policy it would get shot down in flames on here.
I do think he has a point which I have made before. Labour won't put everything in the manifesto but if you say enough things then some people will assume they are in there and it can be very misleading. Unfortunately the vast majority of voters won't read the manifesto - they will just remember that McDonnell said X or Y regardless of if it's in there or not.
Yes it's scheduled for 2030 - another strange thing as they are making a lot of promises which run far past their term in implementation but that will be lost on many as well.
You are well informed so it's not an issue for you - plenty of people aren't though and soundbites from the TV will form their understanding of policy.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| free broadband for all on 08:23 - Nov 15 with 1958 views | GlasgowBlue |
| free broadband for all on 08:19 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
If a Tory were to cite saving money as a reason for supporting a policy it would get shot down in flames on here.
I do think he has a point which I have made before. Labour won't put everything in the manifesto but if you say enough things then some people will assume they are in there and it can be very misleading. Unfortunately the vast majority of voters won't read the manifesto - they will just remember that McDonnell said X or Y regardless of if it's in there or not.
Yes it's scheduled for 2030 - another strange thing as they are making a lot of promises which run far past their term in implementation but that will be lost on many as well.
You are well informed so it's not an issue for you - plenty of people aren't though and soundbites from the TV will form their understanding of policy.
SB |
This is scrap tuition in fees and write off the debt all over again.
In five years time the usual suspects on here who are posting in support of this will be arguing that it was never in the manifesto and demand a link to a quote from Corbyn where he said we’d get free internet. |  |
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| free broadband for all on 08:25 - Nov 15 with 1952 views | lowhouseblue |
| free broadband for all on 08:19 - Nov 15 by BackToRussia |
I'll take both thank you.
I presume you're looking at a spreadsheet of the government spending and tax takes and working it all out and know better than me that we can't afford both, or maybe you're just presenting an ideological false dilemma. |
i'm capable of basic maths - and you don't need more than that in this case. but you think that only being able to spend tax revenue once is an ideological false dilemma? wow.
if people thought the tory estimate of £1.2 trillion of extra spending was dodgy initially, I suspect they won't being doing so now. [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 8:26]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| free broadband for all on 08:26 - Nov 15 with 1943 views | BackToRussia |
| free broadband for all on 08:25 - Nov 15 by lowhouseblue |
i'm capable of basic maths - and you don't need more than that in this case. but you think that only being able to spend tax revenue once is an ideological false dilemma? wow.
if people thought the tory estimate of £1.2 trillion of extra spending was dodgy initially, I suspect they won't being doing so now. [Post edited 15 Nov 2019 8:26]
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Show your working then. |  |
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| free broadband for all on 08:33 - Nov 15 with 1933 views | Clapham_Junction |
| free broadband for all on 07:55 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
I don't think I've put words into your mouth and apologies if you feel that way but you seem to be dismissing my concerns as "tough luck".
You have suggested a couple of times that Virgin should have it's assets seized as well given they are a pointless entity after this. I have issues with this given my previous answers. I don't like the idea of seizing assets from companies or people who haven't done anything wrong.
You've previously given backing for McDonnells approach to asset purchases (ie. below market rate and in debt) and thus it seems unlikely any purchase of Virgin would be different - that is his model.
SB |
You're doing it again though. I simply suggested it would make sense for the Virgin network to be incorporated into any national broadband network. I gave no views on how it should be acquired.
I think you're confusing me with someone else re McDonnell. |  | | |
| free broadband for all on 08:40 - Nov 15 with 1920 views | Superfrans |
| free broadband for all on 22:12 - Nov 14 by Dubtractor |
I posted this the other day, feel like it should be reposted.
"And whilst I am a Labour voter, prob my biggest frustration with the current lot is that they are trying to offer literally everything possible from a left wing utopia perspective. It makes it too easy for people to criticise them for reckless spending.
There are lots of things that need sorting, and need sorting really quickly. Re nationalising utilities or rail for example are not in that category for me, much as I feel that they should never have been privatised to enable foreign companies to run all our utilities and railways!" |
The challenge for Labour (and their weakness, it seems to me) is that the current leadership is looking to introduce everything they have been looking to implement for two decades or more in one go. Personally, I don't have a problem with 95% of it. But it is a lot for people who not in support of renationalisation etc to take on in one go. |  |
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| free broadband for all on 08:45 - Nov 15 with 1917 views | StokieBlue |
| free broadband for all on 08:33 - Nov 15 by Clapham_Junction |
You're doing it again though. I simply suggested it would make sense for the Virgin network to be incorporated into any national broadband network. I gave no views on how it should be acquired.
I think you're confusing me with someone else re McDonnell. |
I still don't think I am but OK.
Is any private company fair game for nationalisation even if they haven't had financial issues and haven't been nationalised previously? Is it right to drive private companies out of business by totalling undermining their business model if they are nationalised?
Perhaps I am confusing you and apologies if that is the case. I was sure that in a previous debate (more than 6 months ago) you said that McDonnell plans for nationalisation of water and other utilities at his price and in debt could be justified be because they were bought at a low price originally, had government investment and the shareholders had already done well out of them. Once again, apologies if I confused you with someone else.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| free broadband for all on 08:51 - Nov 15 with 1902 views | Clapham_Junction |
| free broadband for all on 08:45 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
I still don't think I am but OK.
Is any private company fair game for nationalisation even if they haven't had financial issues and haven't been nationalised previously? Is it right to drive private companies out of business by totalling undermining their business model if they are nationalised?
Perhaps I am confusing you and apologies if that is the case. I was sure that in a previous debate (more than 6 months ago) you said that McDonnell plans for nationalisation of water and other utilities at his price and in debt could be justified be because they were bought at a low price originally, had government investment and the shareholders had already done well out of them. Once again, apologies if I confused you with someone else.
SB |
I think it needs to be considered in a wider sense. Is this an area that would work better as a unified taxpayer funded service than market-led. It also doesn't mean that it can't be acquired in amicable fashion. And I think the Virgin network would have to be acquired if this plan were to go ahead, as like you say, it would ruin their business.
I am in favour of having nationalised utilities and public transport but I don't have the answers for how this should be done. | | | |
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| free broadband for all on 08:57 - Nov 15 with 1889 views | StokieBlue |
| free broadband for all on 08:51 - Nov 15 by Clapham_Junction |
I think it needs to be considered in a wider sense. Is this an area that would work better as a unified taxpayer funded service than market-led. It also doesn't mean that it can't be acquired in amicable fashion. And I think the Virgin network would have to be acquired if this plan were to go ahead, as like you say, it would ruin their business.
I am in favour of having nationalised utilities and public transport but I don't have the answers for how this should be done. |
Fair enough - I don't disagree with any of that.
I guess we will have to wait and see what is in the manifesto - it should certainly be interested.
Anyone know when Labour are planning to release theirs?
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| free broadband for all on 09:17 - Nov 15 with 1869 views | ElephantintheRoom |
You are probably writing this as someone who worships their smartphone and is fooled innto 'upgrades' and takes most things for granted. You should try looking at broadband costs from the point of view of kids with no internet access at home because it is unaffordable in 21st century Tory Britain.... even today this is everyday reality at every state school - even in allegedly wealthy areas with blue blood politicians. Given the ever-increasong importance of the internet in education, work - and life, I see nothing untoward in aspiring to make the internet accessible to all - not just a privileged elite. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed if you were denied it.... after all you couldn't post on here. And remember - IF Labour put this in their manifesto they will have costed it. |  |
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| free broadband for all on 09:27 - Nov 15 with 1852 views | WD19 |
| free broadband for all on 09:17 - Nov 15 by ElephantintheRoom |
You are probably writing this as someone who worships their smartphone and is fooled innto 'upgrades' and takes most things for granted. You should try looking at broadband costs from the point of view of kids with no internet access at home because it is unaffordable in 21st century Tory Britain.... even today this is everyday reality at every state school - even in allegedly wealthy areas with blue blood politicians. Given the ever-increasong importance of the internet in education, work - and life, I see nothing untoward in aspiring to make the internet accessible to all - not just a privileged elite. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed if you were denied it.... after all you couldn't post on here. And remember - IF Labour put this in their manifesto they will have costed it. |
The cheapest broadband is about £120-130 per year. How much do you think it should cost? |  | | |
| free broadband for all on 09:28 - Nov 15 with 1850 views | StokieBlue |
| free broadband for all on 09:17 - Nov 15 by ElephantintheRoom |
You are probably writing this as someone who worships their smartphone and is fooled innto 'upgrades' and takes most things for granted. You should try looking at broadband costs from the point of view of kids with no internet access at home because it is unaffordable in 21st century Tory Britain.... even today this is everyday reality at every state school - even in allegedly wealthy areas with blue blood politicians. Given the ever-increasong importance of the internet in education, work - and life, I see nothing untoward in aspiring to make the internet accessible to all - not just a privileged elite. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed if you were denied it.... after all you couldn't post on here. And remember - IF Labour put this in their manifesto they will have costed it. |
"IF Labour put this in their manifesto they will have costed it."
Their costings weren't brilliant last time (better than the Tories non-existent ones of course):
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-the-labour-manifesto
I think we will need to wait and see but just assuming because it's "costed" that is correct isn't the way to analyse it.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| free broadband for all on 09:30 - Nov 15 with 1849 views | BryanPlug |
[content removed at owner's request] |  |
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| free broadband for all on 09:39 - Nov 15 with 1837 views | lowhouseblue |
| free broadband for all on 09:17 - Nov 15 by ElephantintheRoom |
You are probably writing this as someone who worships their smartphone and is fooled innto 'upgrades' and takes most things for granted. You should try looking at broadband costs from the point of view of kids with no internet access at home because it is unaffordable in 21st century Tory Britain.... even today this is everyday reality at every state school - even in allegedly wealthy areas with blue blood politicians. Given the ever-increasong importance of the internet in education, work - and life, I see nothing untoward in aspiring to make the internet accessible to all - not just a privileged elite. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed if you were denied it.... after all you couldn't post on here. And remember - IF Labour put this in their manifesto they will have costed it. |
"IF Labour put this in their manifesto they will have costed it."
IF?? you think labour is making policy announcements in the middle of a general election campaign and those things may not then be included in their manifesto. jeez. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| free broadband for all on 09:51 - Nov 15 with 1830 views | StokieBlue |
| free broadband for all on 09:17 - Nov 15 by ElephantintheRoom |
You are probably writing this as someone who worships their smartphone and is fooled innto 'upgrades' and takes most things for granted. You should try looking at broadband costs from the point of view of kids with no internet access at home because it is unaffordable in 21st century Tory Britain.... even today this is everyday reality at every state school - even in allegedly wealthy areas with blue blood politicians. Given the ever-increasong importance of the internet in education, work - and life, I see nothing untoward in aspiring to make the internet accessible to all - not just a privileged elite. I suspect you'd be a bit miffed if you were denied it.... after all you couldn't post on here. And remember - IF Labour put this in their manifesto they will have costed it. |
BT are already disputing the costings and put them at more like 100bn to do what Labour are promising - the boss of BT's take:
"It needs funding, it is very big numbers, so we are talking 30 to 40 billion pounds.. and if you are giving it away over an eight year time frame it is a another 30 or 40 billion pounds. You are not short of 100 billion pounds."
He might be totally wrong but given the huge difference we need to see some proper numbers and analysis.
Talk Talk were due to sell their fibre infrastructure but that's now been canned until after the election by the buyers.
Interestingly the state owned Deutsche Telecom is the biggest shareholder in BT. I wonder what the Germans think about the idea of getting UK debt for their investment.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| free broadband for all on 09:54 - Nov 15 with 1824 views | Basuco |
Why invest in old technology? Expanding the 4G network would be much more helpful and also reduce the number of areas that cannot get a mobile signal. |  | | |
| free broadband for all on 09:58 - Nov 15 with 1817 views | artsbossbeard |
| free broadband for all on 09:51 - Nov 15 by StokieBlue |
BT are already disputing the costings and put them at more like 100bn to do what Labour are promising - the boss of BT's take:
"It needs funding, it is very big numbers, so we are talking 30 to 40 billion pounds.. and if you are giving it away over an eight year time frame it is a another 30 or 40 billion pounds. You are not short of 100 billion pounds."
He might be totally wrong but given the huge difference we need to see some proper numbers and analysis.
Talk Talk were due to sell their fibre infrastructure but that's now been canned until after the election by the buyers.
Interestingly the state owned Deutsche Telecom is the biggest shareholder in BT. I wonder what the Germans think about the idea of getting UK debt for their investment.
SB |
I think it would have been more palatable and less guffawed at if the offer was a "free broadband for all" with a government subsidy to anyone looking to go full fibre speeds.
When we've got rural communities struggling with little to no broadband, the fibre to all houses does seem rather pie in the sky. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| free broadband for all on 10:04 - Nov 15 with 1803 views | StokieBlue |
| free broadband for all on 09:58 - Nov 15 by artsbossbeard |
I think it would have been more palatable and less guffawed at if the offer was a "free broadband for all" with a government subsidy to anyone looking to go full fibre speeds.
When we've got rural communities struggling with little to no broadband, the fibre to all houses does seem rather pie in the sky. |
That's not a bad idea actually.
Ensures everyone has a baseline but that companies like Virgin etc can charge a premium above that baseline if people want 300mb per second or whatever.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| free broadband for all on 10:11 - Nov 15 with 1791 views | longtimefan |
| free broadband for all on 08:11 - Nov 15 by BackToRussia |
I dunno about you, but our broadband bill is about 80 quid. Would be a saving of a grand a year.
I'm not sure I quite get the argument that good things can dilute other things.
The broadband thing is scheduled for 2030 isn't it? |
Can I ask why you pay £80/month? I get fiber to the curb with around 50Mbit/s for less than £30/month through BT. | | | |
| free broadband for all on 10:32 - Nov 15 with 1755 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| free broadband for all on 10:11 - Nov 15 by longtimefan |
Can I ask why you pay £80/month? I get fiber to the curb with around 50Mbit/s for less than £30/month through BT. |
KInd of depends where you live doesn't it? I get fibre to a green box in the village high street - then a cable from that to my house that goes 800 yards down one road and 400 yeards back down another IF the engineer hasn't rewired it or pulled the plug out when doing seemingly endless daily tinkering on said green box. The resulting 'fibreoptic broadband' varies between just about workable to non-existant presumably based on other users in the intervening half mile. Aspiring to having a joined up broadband supply for all seems an OK idea in principle.... much better than a slightly faster train to the grim north anyway. | |
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| free broadband for all on 10:40 - Nov 15 with 1737 views | Ryorry |
| free broadband for all on 07:28 - Nov 15 by BackToRussia |
Yeah, there will be a bit more in the manifesto than a blank page with "free Internet" on it. Why are you wilfully ignoring other policies they have announced? |
I'm not - but this was a thread specifically about their free broadband promise. Why are you wilfully ignoring my point? |  |
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| free broadband for all on 10:56 - Nov 15 with 1716 views | Ryorry |
| free broadband for all on 09:39 - Nov 15 by lowhouseblue |
"IF Labour put this in their manifesto they will have costed it."
IF?? you think labour is making policy announcements in the middle of a general election campaign and those things may not then be included in their manifesto. jeez. |
I was given the same answer about JM's proposal to sell private landlords' properties to tenants for less than the properties' market value a few days ago - "check the manifesto because it probably won't be in there"! | |
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| free broadband for all on 10:59 - Nov 15 with 1709 views | vilanovablue |
| free broadband for all on 22:12 - Nov 14 by Dubtractor |
I posted this the other day, feel like it should be reposted.
"And whilst I am a Labour voter, prob my biggest frustration with the current lot is that they are trying to offer literally everything possible from a left wing utopia perspective. It makes it too easy for people to criticise them for reckless spending.
There are lots of things that need sorting, and need sorting really quickly. Re nationalising utilities or rail for example are not in that category for me, much as I feel that they should never have been privatised to enable foreign companies to run all our utilities and railways!" |
I would say that the only way an infrastructure project (which is desperately required) will get done is if the government intervenes.
Quite why they then say broadband is going to be free seems a little short-sighted why not just offer it at semi-subsidised rate. |  | | |
| free broadband for all on 11:14 - Nov 15 with 1691 views | lowhouseblue |
| free broadband for all on 10:56 - Nov 15 by Ryorry |
I was given the same answer about JM's proposal to sell private landlords' properties to tenants for less than the properties' market value a few days ago - "check the manifesto because it probably won't be in there"! |
it is a planned tactic. make loads of promises al over the place, and get your online troops to push them as 'policy commitments' and then when you're challenged about how much it will all cost say 'well it's not all in the manifesto'. people don't read every word of the manifesto, but they do see the online clips of mcdonnell promising free this and free that and the moon on a stick. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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