| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal 16:25 - Jan 27 with 5822 views | noggin |
He was telling me how he will be celebrating on Friday. When I asked if he was concerned about slowly losing his workers rights, he answered, "I don't care, I'll be living in Spain by then."
Slightly embarrassed to have served in the forces with him. |  |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 10:32 - Jan 28 with 1258 views | solemio |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 09:40 - Jan 28 by HARRY10 |
However I think that was the perception brexiteers had when voting. And pne people like Johnson were not too keen to correct.
The treality is work is being taken up by a highly flexible immigrant labour force.Youngsters from Spain, PPortugal will happily share a small flat and work hard as the alternative is fairly bleak where they comr from.
Instead of focussing on why housing is not available for those stuck 'oop north' to allow them to move to where the work is they have in complete stupidity voted for those who have been the beneficiaries of this labour force. They have been backed by those who have benifited from that artificial shortage of housing,
A situation that will doubtlessly strike future hsitorians as bizarre as the ducking stool appears now to us. |
"pne people like Johnson" - Are you saying Johnson is a Preston North End person, or that Preston supporters like Johnson?
I bet Tom Finney wouldn't have had any truck with Johnson. |  | | |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 11:03 - Jan 28 with 1226 views | Oldsmoker |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 10:24 - Jan 28 by bracknell_blue |
Which shows it was all about immigration (and, hence, to some extent, racism) all along. |
The first saturday night in the pub after the referendum a bloke who voted leave was really happy 'cos immigration would now stop.
When it was pointed out to him that it was white christians from Europe that would be affected, and not non-white non-christians from commonwealth and former commonwealth countries, his faced drop as the realisation sunk in that even more foreigners of the type he didn't like were coming.
For some, Brexit was definitely about racism. |  |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 11:05 - Jan 28 with 1215 views | HARRY10 |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 10:32 - Jan 28 by solemio |
"pne people like Johnson" - Are you saying Johnson is a Preston North End person, or that Preston supporters like Johnson?
I bet Tom Finney wouldn't have had any truck with Johnson. |
the clumsey bit is my fingers - I haven't get used to this new keyboard
I shall have to get one of those Hermione Grainger things
..... a spell checker | | | |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 11:06 - Jan 28 with 1216 views | footers |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 11:03 - Jan 28 by Oldsmoker |
The first saturday night in the pub after the referendum a bloke who voted leave was really happy 'cos immigration would now stop.
When it was pointed out to him that it was white christians from Europe that would be affected, and not non-white non-christians from commonwealth and former commonwealth countries, his faced drop as the realisation sunk in that even more foreigners of the type he didn't like were coming.
For some, Brexit was definitely about racism. |
Much like the lovely chap who, on the morning after of the referendum, was loudly telling people in Whitechapel market to go back to where they came from.
When he sobered up, I wonder if he found out that Bangladesh is not in the EU. |  |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 11:12 - Jan 28 with 1208 views | No9 |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 21:57 - Jan 27 by jeera |
Britain's fishing companies have been selling their quota, as legally entitled to do*.
That is why there have 'foreign' trawlers spotted closer to our shores.
I wish people would try to understand that 'we' = Britain, don't own rights as such. Fishing is not a nationalised enterprise - it is privately owned by several large companies who do as they please.
*This is not related of course to the small fishing local firms who fish closer to shore. |
British fishermen sell circa 75% of what they catch ( mainly the exotic stuff?) to the EU & Scottish trawlers sell a lot off the boat in Danish ports.
New rules about sellign fish & seafood into the EU come into force on quality certification etc. when the UK leaves.
June Mummery the Lowestoft Fish rep in the brexit party is now awoken to the fact, & is concerend that, there will be no Brtish voice in the EU on fishing-
I wonder if she & her ilk would expect the EU to build a new fish market in Lowestoft? | | | |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 12:33 - Jan 28 with 1152 views | Ryorry |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 05:44 - Jan 28 by TractorWood |
I think it's satire. Quite excellent satire. |
Ah, yes - soz - it was 5.35 am & I'd only had 3 hours kip, so had only skim read the piece!  |  |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 12:51 - Jan 28 with 1126 views | flimflam |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 09:05 - Jan 28 by Enigma_Blue |
That Brexiter that you know must be really ill informed, as nothing like that was promised. The UK would have tighter controls on immigration, not that immigration would be stopped. |
Immigration is a good thing but just needs a little more control which what I hope will happen. Anyone who thought for one minute there would be no more immigration is obviously deluded and a bit thick.
We need it but it needs to be a level playing field from wherever in the world you are coming from. |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 13:10 - Jan 28 with 1107 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 12:51 - Jan 28 by flimflam |
Immigration is a good thing but just needs a little more control which what I hope will happen. Anyone who thought for one minute there would be no more immigration is obviously deluded and a bit thick.
We need it but it needs to be a level playing field from wherever in the world you are coming from. |
Does it? The UK has cynically manipulated the EU for 45 years, allowing those foireign chappies to pay for the training of doctors, nurse, vets and anything else that requires rather tiresome investment ... as global warming has become trendier by the year it makes even more sense to top up your workforce from closer to home - let alone buy and sell stuff with minimum eco-warrior cost.
Immigration is largely economic in this country... we have been staggeringly cruel and indifferent to the low number of displaced people we have taken in. Hence simply by devaluing our currency and self-harming the economy we have massively reduced EU workers who simply move to countries where they can earn more (and might feel more welcome).
Non-EU migration, the bit we can in theory control has always been uncontrollable - and always will be despite the waffle...which is why it is still merrily increasing despite the hostile environment, 10s of thousands posturing etc. etc | |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 13:17 - Jan 28 with 1089 views | Darth_Koont |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 12:51 - Jan 28 by flimflam |
Immigration is a good thing but just needs a little more control which what I hope will happen. Anyone who thought for one minute there would be no more immigration is obviously deluded and a bit thick.
We need it but it needs to be a level playing field from wherever in the world you are coming from. |
In that respect, it's annoying that our own government that's been dogwhistling about immigration didn't put in the controls over EU immigration that it could. And certainly didn't address non-EU immigration which is entirely within its control.
In a supposedly civilised 21st century country with a strong economy, I don't have much of a problem with immigration from the EU or outside.
But then again, I wasn't talking about a hostile environment and playing on xenophobic nationalist tendencies. I wasn't underinvesting in housing and services to serve the existing population let alone support a modest increase. And I wasn't pretending the answer was a very sketchy Brexit and shuttering ourselves off from trade and political alliances that are key to our future success.
If I did think the situation warranted those responses then I think I'd have put tighter controls on immigration when I had the chance ten years ago and certainly at some point since then.
But maybe they wanted to keep these problems as an electoral tool. Or they're just utterly incompetent. I suspect the answer is both. |  |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 13:19 - Jan 28 with 1073 views | sotd78 |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 05:35 - Jan 28 by Ryorry |
"Mr Johnson, who said earlier that the fishing industry was vital to the UK economy making up almost 42% of GDP ..."
42% of GDP?? Seriously??!! Where did that figure come from? I'm no economist but strikes me as pure fiction. |
It will be 42% after Brexit....the rest is made up of Turkeys. |  |
| Blue shirts/white shorts - sotd78 |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 13:24 - Jan 28 with 1056 views | itfcjoe |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 13:10 - Jan 28 by ElephantintheRoom |
Does it? The UK has cynically manipulated the EU for 45 years, allowing those foireign chappies to pay for the training of doctors, nurse, vets and anything else that requires rather tiresome investment ... as global warming has become trendier by the year it makes even more sense to top up your workforce from closer to home - let alone buy and sell stuff with minimum eco-warrior cost.
Immigration is largely economic in this country... we have been staggeringly cruel and indifferent to the low number of displaced people we have taken in. Hence simply by devaluing our currency and self-harming the economy we have massively reduced EU workers who simply move to countries where they can earn more (and might feel more welcome).
Non-EU migration, the bit we can in theory control has always been uncontrollable - and always will be despite the waffle...which is why it is still merrily increasing despite the hostile environment, 10s of thousands posturing etc. etc |
If we want the economy to grow, you have two choices and they are to (a) import a work force, or (b) grow and train a workforce.
Currently for (a) we are now making to more difficult to do by Brexit, and for (b) the same by limiting child tax credits to 2 children, cutting early years education etc.
If you split people up simply to 3 phases of life:
1 - Birth until end of studies - at this age you are a cost to the system and take out way more than you put in tax wise
2 - End of studies until retirement - this is the age you are contributing to the pot with your taxes and less likely to use the NHS etc
3 - Retirement until End of life - at this stage you are taking out more than you are putting in, even those with large private pensions are now only paying tax that was avoided in Phase 2. And you are going to use the NHS, bus passes, TV licences, etc
Nearly all immigrants do (1) in their home country, and in a lot of cases retire back there for (3) - so are only here for the phase of their life when they are paying in. It makes great economic sense to have immigrants, although I do appreciate the cultural issues that come with it.
But back to the first point, there needed to be a long programme of investment into our own citizens before effectively shutting the door on others, or heavily implying that that is what is going to be done.
An Australian based system may work in time, but the reality is immigration needs to increase for the the next 10-20 years to fund the training of our own workforce which won't be popular with the rabid Brexiteers |  |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 13:43 - Jan 28 with 1016 views | HARRY10 |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 13:19 - Jan 28 by sotd78 |
It will be 42% after Brexit....the rest is made up of Turkeys. |
As said previously this brexit nonsense continues to fall apart by the day - as today we have
"An Australian-style points system to reduce overall immigration was one of six "guarantees" on the first page of the Conservative manifesto for last month's general election, with Mr Johnson presenting it as a key part of reducing arrivals of workers with lower skills "
"A review of government plans for new immigration rules after Brexit has rejected Boris Johnson’s proposal for an Australian-style points-based system for the bulk of migrants.
Chairman Alan Manning described the prime minister's promises of an Australian-style system as a "soundbite" and urged him not to repeat the "mistakes" of earlier attempts to impose a points system more widely."
That so much of the election and brexit promises should fall apart within a few weeks should be of some concern to those who rather naively swallowed the hype that it was all going to so simple to deal with.
As it now appears that all that is simple is those who swallowed these lies and false promises so easily. | | | |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 14:29 - Jan 28 with 989 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 13:24 - Jan 28 by itfcjoe |
If we want the economy to grow, you have two choices and they are to (a) import a work force, or (b) grow and train a workforce.
Currently for (a) we are now making to more difficult to do by Brexit, and for (b) the same by limiting child tax credits to 2 children, cutting early years education etc.
If you split people up simply to 3 phases of life:
1 - Birth until end of studies - at this age you are a cost to the system and take out way more than you put in tax wise
2 - End of studies until retirement - this is the age you are contributing to the pot with your taxes and less likely to use the NHS etc
3 - Retirement until End of life - at this stage you are taking out more than you are putting in, even those with large private pensions are now only paying tax that was avoided in Phase 2. And you are going to use the NHS, bus passes, TV licences, etc
Nearly all immigrants do (1) in their home country, and in a lot of cases retire back there for (3) - so are only here for the phase of their life when they are paying in. It makes great economic sense to have immigrants, although I do appreciate the cultural issues that come with it.
But back to the first point, there needed to be a long programme of investment into our own citizens before effectively shutting the door on others, or heavily implying that that is what is going to be done.
An Australian based system may work in time, but the reality is immigration needs to increase for the the next 10-20 years to fund the training of our own workforce which won't be popular with the rabid Brexiteers |
Hmmm - having produced three children and funded them to stage two I am not entirely convinced that they took out way more than they put in.... even if most of it came from me and Mrs E.
The 'australian points based system' is just made up claptrap... Australia has a very high immigration rate, where it is actually applied - and it sounds good.... it doesnt really address this country's need for an extremely high low skilled immigrant work force, IF we are being sniffy about turkey plucking, slaughterhouse work, white van man, onion picking etc etc.. - let alone grey(ish) areas such as construction, factory work, healthcare, care, hospitality and every other facet of life in this country that immigration oils the cogs.
The point that a doctor, bin man or turkey plucker can come from Australia, the sinking Maldives or indeed Europe on a level playing field is utterly fatuous - and probably has sinister eyes on working practices in say singapore to boost profit levels as we self harm the economy. | |
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| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 14:43 - Jan 28 with 977 views | No9 |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 12:51 - Jan 28 by flimflam |
Immigration is a good thing but just needs a little more control which what I hope will happen. Anyone who thought for one minute there would be no more immigration is obviously deluded and a bit thick.
We need it but it needs to be a level playing field from wherever in the world you are coming from. |
Of course the idiocy of the whole thing is the argument today is to put pressure on government to lower the wage limit so that British firms can afford to employ the immigrants. | | | |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 14:54 - Jan 28 with 957 views | No9 |
| Just had a brexit debate with an old pal on 13:24 - Jan 28 by itfcjoe |
If we want the economy to grow, you have two choices and they are to (a) import a work force, or (b) grow and train a workforce.
Currently for (a) we are now making to more difficult to do by Brexit, and for (b) the same by limiting child tax credits to 2 children, cutting early years education etc.
If you split people up simply to 3 phases of life:
1 - Birth until end of studies - at this age you are a cost to the system and take out way more than you put in tax wise
2 - End of studies until retirement - this is the age you are contributing to the pot with your taxes and less likely to use the NHS etc
3 - Retirement until End of life - at this stage you are taking out more than you are putting in, even those with large private pensions are now only paying tax that was avoided in Phase 2. And you are going to use the NHS, bus passes, TV licences, etc
Nearly all immigrants do (1) in their home country, and in a lot of cases retire back there for (3) - so are only here for the phase of their life when they are paying in. It makes great economic sense to have immigrants, although I do appreciate the cultural issues that come with it.
But back to the first point, there needed to be a long programme of investment into our own citizens before effectively shutting the door on others, or heavily implying that that is what is going to be done.
An Australian based system may work in time, but the reality is immigration needs to increase for the the next 10-20 years to fund the training of our own workforce which won't be popular with the rabid Brexiteers |
"But back to the first point, there needed to be a long programme of investment into our own citizens before effectively shutting the door on others, or heavily implying that that is what is going to be done."
Indeed we do need considerable investment in our own citizens but don't forget the ideology of he 80's was to de-skill personnel and de-indistrailise the UK.
Apart from not having the skills the UK does not have the industrial capability to stand up in a global world.
As an example, Electricity generation be it renewables or nuclear relys on EU companies and skill sets and many other industries feed off the EU because of the lack of capability in a country that was becoming more & more reliant on financial services.
Unless the UK turns to A.N. other = China / America it will be lost simply because here is NOt the time or money to catch up | | | |
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