| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 12:59 - Feb 11 with 1539 views | Herbivore |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 12:56 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
No idea. One of the guys interviewed yesterday (historical drug offense about 10 year ago for which he served his time) said he expects to get targeted because he's been deported. But I've no idea if that's true. He will be leaving behind his English wife and English young kid though. Tory policies have been splitting families for a while though, so not a huge surprise there). |
Surely that is in breach of the right to a family life? |  |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 13:01 - Feb 11 with 1551 views | noggin |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 12:57 - Feb 11 by itfcjoe |
There's something like 40 kids that will be left without Father's now in this country - I'm sure that won't come back to bite at any point |
How often are Irish criminals, who have lived here since childhood, deported? |  |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 13:02 - Feb 11 with 1545 views | noggin |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 10:26 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
Marxists. If you're not with them, then you are axiomatically against them. that's how they think. |
Who are these marxists? | |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 13:18 - Feb 11 with 1495 views | Darth_Koont |
Well, it pushes the "right" buttons of more than a few of their core members and voters.
That's more important than humanity or intelligence as the government proves time after time.
It's full on Trumpian politics. |  |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 13:22 - Feb 11 with 1461 views | Herbivore |
It's just totally callous. It serves no purpose other than to play to a narrow, bigoted crowd. | |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:27 - Feb 11 with 1446 views | chicoazul |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 12:03 - Feb 11 by gordon |
Sounds like we're getting somewhere. It would depend on the age when people arrived, but deporting people who arrived age 5 is OK. Where would be your cut-off then - 18 months? |
"deporting people who arrived age 5 is OK"
Pardon? When did I say that? |  |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:38 - Feb 11 with 1434 views | HARRY10 |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 10:22 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
No, it's very clear what i'm saying, I am explaining why this isnt Windrush nor is it "ethnic cleansing". As to your second question here is my answer; I think it depends on the offence and the length of time a criminal in question has been in this country. If for e.g. they are convicted of multiple counts of burglary and have been in the UK for 4 years that's one thing. |
But you have posted elsewhere that the law is the law ie fixed
Yet here you are now suggesting there is some conditionality to the law.
Do let us all know which one you think is correct. |  | | |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:47 - Feb 11 with 1417 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 12:59 - Feb 11 by Herbivore |
Surely that is in breach of the right to a family life? |
I assume that can only be determined through the courts, which is a bit difficult if the person in question is put on a plane without access to legal counsel. |  |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:47 - Feb 11 with 1416 views | brazil1982 |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 22:40 - Feb 10 by tractordownsouth |
If you’re in favour of these deportations then I assume you’re in favour of Shamima Begum being deported back to the UK? |
She should face questioning in the UK, yes. British citizens are also deported from countries around the world post-sentence. |  | | |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:48 - Feb 11 with 1414 views | chicoazul |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:38 - Feb 11 by HARRY10 |
But you have posted elsewhere that the law is the law ie fixed
Yet here you are now suggesting there is some conditionality to the law.
Do let us all know which one you think is correct. |
Do you know how the criminal justice system works Harold? You know we have judges, courts of appeal, lawyers, that sort of thing? Of course the law is the law. It is also subject to testing and is a moving target.
Although I don't think I have "suggested" that have I? I have given my answer to the question "chico what do you think". You're doing that thing again where you read what you think is written instead of what is. | |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:55 - Feb 11 with 1386 views | Radlett_blue |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:47 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
I assume that can only be determined through the courts, which is a bit difficult if the person in question is put on a plane without access to legal counsel. |
Because one mobile phone mast wasn't working for 5 minutes or so? Don't you love nit-picking human rights lawyers, presumably on taxpayer-funded legal aid. |  |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:00 - Feb 11 with 1367 views | HARRY10 |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:48 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
Do you know how the criminal justice system works Harold? You know we have judges, courts of appeal, lawyers, that sort of thing? Of course the law is the law. It is also subject to testing and is a moving target.
Although I don't think I have "suggested" that have I? I have given my answer to the question "chico what do you think". You're doing that thing again where you read what you think is written instead of what is. |
Does deportation fall under the criminal justice system ?
Do tell
And the thing I am actually doing is pointing out the contradiction in what you post
"The law is that people who are not UK or EU nationals, when they are convicted and sentenced to IEO 12 months, are deported to their country of origin."
or
"it would depend on being weighed against many factors including the age they arrived, the gravity of the offence, the situation in the country of origin etc."
I don't think there is any suggestion that I am misrepresenting your words. Either the law on that point is absolute, or is conditional as you then claim
Which is it (and I do understand what case law means) ? | | | |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:05 - Feb 11 with 1347 views | chicoazul |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:00 - Feb 11 by HARRY10 |
Does deportation fall under the criminal justice system ?
Do tell
And the thing I am actually doing is pointing out the contradiction in what you post
"The law is that people who are not UK or EU nationals, when they are convicted and sentenced to IEO 12 months, are deported to their country of origin."
or
"it would depend on being weighed against many factors including the age they arrived, the gravity of the offence, the situation in the country of origin etc."
I don't think there is any suggestion that I am misrepresenting your words. Either the law on that point is absolute, or is conditional as you then claim
Which is it (and I do understand what case law means) ? |
Oh you silly goose Harold. My latter comment there is what I THINK SHOULD BE THE CASE, as I put to OP earlier, not WHAT IS THE CASE which is what you put in my first comment. When I am God Emperor of England that's the sort of system I will implement. So sadly for you, you certainly are misrepresenting my words, although as I said earlier I dont think you have done this deliberately, you're just not very good at reading. | |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:17 - Feb 11 with 1322 views | brazil1982 |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:55 - Feb 11 by Radlett_blue |
Because one mobile phone mast wasn't working for 5 minutes or so? Don't you love nit-picking human rights lawyers, presumably on taxpayer-funded legal aid. |
Unfortunately it is smaller details that often delay processes. Details that should have been noticed and dealt with. | | | |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:35 - Feb 11 with 1300 views | gordon |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 14:27 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
"deporting people who arrived age 5 is OK"
Pardon? When did I say that? |
Chr*st. You didn't even read the story before wading in, did you?
"Over the phone last Thursday I spoke to Tayjay, a 24-year-old man being held in Colnbrook detention centre. Tayjay has lived in the UK since he was five, as was obvious when I heard his strong London accent. His life is deeply entwined with his family, all of whom live in the UK. Most days, he takes his younger brother to school.
Tayjay told me he was the victim of county lines grooming and compelled to carry drugs. This resulted in a single drugs-related offence and a 15-month conviction, for which he served seven months in 2015, when he was 19. Since he was released five years ago, despite never reoffending, Tayjay has been terrified of being deported. He has only visited Jamaica once before and said even then he found it “too hot” and “wanted to come home”.
Like Tayjay, many of those scheduled to be deported on tomorrow’s charter flight to Jamaica are more British than they are Jamaican." |  | | |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:39 - Feb 11 with 1293 views | chicoazul |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:35 - Feb 11 by gordon |
Chr*st. You didn't even read the story before wading in, did you?
"Over the phone last Thursday I spoke to Tayjay, a 24-year-old man being held in Colnbrook detention centre. Tayjay has lived in the UK since he was five, as was obvious when I heard his strong London accent. His life is deeply entwined with his family, all of whom live in the UK. Most days, he takes his younger brother to school.
Tayjay told me he was the victim of county lines grooming and compelled to carry drugs. This resulted in a single drugs-related offence and a 15-month conviction, for which he served seven months in 2015, when he was 19. Since he was released five years ago, despite never reoffending, Tayjay has been terrified of being deported. He has only visited Jamaica once before and said even then he found it “too hot” and “wanted to come home”.
Like Tayjay, many of those scheduled to be deported on tomorrow’s charter flight to Jamaica are more British than they are Jamaican." |
Friend, here it is again for the last time. I explained the legal situation as it stood, but DIDN'T make any comment on what I think about it UNTIL you asked me, when I gave you my response to your question. Why are you finding this so tough to grasp? You and I are in agreement in large part. | |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:44 - Feb 11 with 1274 views | Herbivore |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:39 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
Friend, here it is again for the last time. I explained the legal situation as it stood, but DIDN'T make any comment on what I think about it UNTIL you asked me, when I gave you my response to your question. Why are you finding this so tough to grasp? You and I are in agreement in large part. |
Your very first post on this thread kicked off by saying you don't by into the handwringing on this one. That suggests you don't have an issue with the specific cases involved since it's the nature of those cases rather than the general principle of the law that people are taking issue with. | |
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| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 18:51 - Feb 11 with 1209 views | HARRY10 |
| Disgusting that we're still doing this: on 15:05 - Feb 11 by chicoazul |
Oh you silly goose Harold. My latter comment there is what I THINK SHOULD BE THE CASE, as I put to OP earlier, not WHAT IS THE CASE which is what you put in my first comment. When I am God Emperor of England that's the sort of system I will implement. So sadly for you, you certainly are misrepresenting my words, although as I said earlier I dont think you have done this deliberately, you're just not very good at reading. |
Whereas what you have claimed is the law is not actually the law, as through case law it has changed and it is condotional.
There is an appeals process under Section 8 of the ECHR ehich is governed by partt 5A Nationality Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 (as amended). Where we have Exception 1
In order to fit within this exception, the foreign criminal must:
have been lawfully resident in the UK for most of his life,
be socially and culturally integrated in the UK; and
show that there would be very significant obstacles to his or her integration into the country to which they would be deported
Which as it stands would entitle many of those removed from the flight to have an appeal to be heard. The law in this instance has been pushed towards a government being allowed to chuck out anyone they deem as undesirable.
Fine if you regularly have a bang or two on the daily Mail but not so fine if that were to be a power that some naughty lefty like Corbyn could have. As much as I despise brexiteers they should never be faced with this type of action. Nor is it suitable for any government to use executive power to over rule the judiciary.
The above are my thoughts with only the bits in italics as quotes from elsewhere. And no. I have NO sympathy with those who have committed serious crime - but I do have every concern where law is being misused for political ends. This is not about protecting the criminal, but protecting UK law from abuse. | | | |
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