| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... 08:36 - Mar 30 with 3579 views | hampstead_blue |
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/church-goers-around-the-world-igno
Beggars belief. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 12:10 - Mar 30 with 1269 views | hampstead_blue |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 11:49 - Mar 30 by Mullet |
For a very vocally proud military man, you should probably tone down the rhetoric. It's not as if various atrocities and abuses haven't happened routinely in that arena either.
It's a bit like criticising the BBC still putting news reporters and presenters on the box because of the institutional failings of the past.
This sort of devout moralising from the armchair atheists just makes you all look daft and gloriously lacking in self-awareness. |
I hear you and maybe you have a point. My tone on certain things is prickly.
However, I do have a real hate for religion which can break through sometimes. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
| |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 12:35 - Mar 30 with 1236 views | sparks |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 11:54 - Mar 30 by Guthrum |
It's the priests and the church networks. Part of the glue holding small, rural villages together when (often corrupt) local and national government doesn't effectively reach that far.
Think of it in Medieval terms, where the church was the only common source of education*, healthcare and social services.
* Which is why literacy rates in England went down after the Dissolution of the Monasteries. |
I can imagine it being the church folk. I am doubtful that Father X routinely changes bedpans.
But I may be wrong. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 12:43 - Mar 30 with 1215 views | Guthrum |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 12:35 - Mar 30 by sparks |
I can imagine it being the church folk. I am doubtful that Father X routinely changes bedpans.
But I may be wrong. |
Bear in mind the village priest is often a local man, with deep connections to the place. Why would he stand aloof? He's not just there to perform religious ceremonies, but to minister to the people. It's part of the brief.
That's why the Catholic Church, at a grass roots level, became associated with Liberation Theology in South and Central America. Why its bishops were murdered for resisting totalitarian governments. |  |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 12:49 - Mar 30 with 1204 views | TheBoyBlue |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 08:48 - Mar 30 by sparks |
This is precisely what I was talking about the other day when I argued that religious beliefs affect day to day decisions which can do harm even amongst the 'I'm not pushing it on anyone else ' mindset. |
I don't think this stupid attitude of ignoring the current rules and guidelines is something that is caused by religion. It's just that there is lots of this stupidity and the ones highlighted here happen to be highlighting their stupidity by still going to worship, despite the vast majority of religious institutions shutting down across the globe. |  |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 12:51 - Mar 30 with 1204 views | itfc_bucks |
Interesting that a good number of the usual suspects are quite comfortable flinging around scurrilous and broad accusations about the whole church.
The vast majority, overwhelming majority of churches in the UK are closed right now. Prove me wrong by going and visiting one open this Sunday. Take a picture, of course, for proof.
Given the good work that the clergy does in the community and the harm that would be caused if you removed that contact, you may find that you do more harm than good by preventing all pastoral work.
Finally, yes, I think most of the subcontinent will be in a world of trouble when it breaks out into the general populace. | | | |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 12:58 - Mar 30 with 1193 views | sparks |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 12:51 - Mar 30 by itfc_bucks |
Interesting that a good number of the usual suspects are quite comfortable flinging around scurrilous and broad accusations about the whole church.
The vast majority, overwhelming majority of churches in the UK are closed right now. Prove me wrong by going and visiting one open this Sunday. Take a picture, of course, for proof.
Given the good work that the clergy does in the community and the harm that would be caused if you removed that contact, you may find that you do more harm than good by preventing all pastoral work.
Finally, yes, I think most of the subcontinent will be in a world of trouble when it breaks out into the general populace. |
Para 1- who has done this please?
para 2- Strawman.
Para 3- I think there are significant arguments to be had in both directions
para 4- Yup. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:04 - Mar 30 with 1183 views | giant_stow |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 12:43 - Mar 30 by Guthrum |
Bear in mind the village priest is often a local man, with deep connections to the place. Why would he stand aloof? He's not just there to perform religious ceremonies, but to minister to the people. It's part of the brief.
That's why the Catholic Church, at a grass roots level, became associated with Liberation Theology in South and Central America. Why its bishops were murdered for resisting totalitarian governments. |
Don't mention liberation theology mr - some heads might explode at the thought of the Church doing anything good. |  |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:10 - Mar 30 with 1165 views | sparks |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:04 - Mar 30 by giant_stow |
Don't mention liberation theology mr - some heads might explode at the thought of the Church doing anything good. |
Another strawman.
I don't think anyone has ever suggested what you appear to be arguing against. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:17 - Mar 30 with 1144 views | giant_stow |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:10 - Mar 30 by sparks |
Another strawman.
I don't think anyone has ever suggested what you appear to be arguing against. |
I'm arguing against comments like these:
"Religion causes death shocker."
"religious beliefs affect day to day decisions which can do harm even amongst the 'I'm not pushing it on anyone else ' mindset. "
"Worth noting that the Pope initially said his priests should still be going out and doing pastoral work. "
"They have a large flock of young children to abuse. Can't stop God's work. "
" I do have a real hate for religion which can break through sometimes. "
My comment was strawman free | |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:19 - Mar 30 with 1140 views | sparks |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:17 - Mar 30 by giant_stow |
I'm arguing against comments like these:
"Religion causes death shocker."
"religious beliefs affect day to day decisions which can do harm even amongst the 'I'm not pushing it on anyone else ' mindset. "
"Worth noting that the Pope initially said his priests should still be going out and doing pastoral work. "
"They have a large flock of young children to abuse. Can't stop God's work. "
" I do have a real hate for religion which can break through sometimes. "
My comment was strawman free |
Noone suggested that religion never does anythign good- which is what you argued.
Religion does cause deaths. The Pope's rules on contraception in Africa are responsible for an enormous number of AIDS deaths, for a start.
Religion does affect day to day decision making- even amongst those who take the "minding my own business" approach to it. It can persuade them (as in the story in the OP) to behave in a manner harmful to others and to themselves. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:22 - Mar 30 with 1134 views | hampstead_blue |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:17 - Mar 30 by giant_stow |
I'm arguing against comments like these:
"Religion causes death shocker."
"religious beliefs affect day to day decisions which can do harm even amongst the 'I'm not pushing it on anyone else ' mindset. "
"Worth noting that the Pope initially said his priests should still be going out and doing pastoral work. "
"They have a large flock of young children to abuse. Can't stop God's work. "
" I do have a real hate for religion which can break through sometimes. "
My comment was strawman free |
May I refer you to the incredible works of Christopher Hitchens.
God is not Great is the text I'd go to first and then work through his vast collection of debates against the church. All on youtube.
He uses the same tone as I do but in an infinitely more intellectual manner. I am but a prawn to his lobster. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:26 - Mar 30 with 1130 views | Ryorry |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 09:43 - Mar 30 by Guthrum |
Mind you, quoting a handful of examples from across the globe - many of whom are defying their own leadership by meeting - is like using the odd barbecue/party to suggest most Britons are ignoring the lockdown. The vast majority of churches, including the CofE, have gone online.
Bolsonaro, like Trump, does not believe in an objective reality outside of his own mindset. And is therefore insane. |
Even so, when you see someone entering a temple in India saying that it wasn't possible to catch the virus there because it's a holy place ... and that person is a medical doctor by profession ... (on BBC or ITV news recently). |  |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:29 - Mar 30 with 1122 views | Durovigutum |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:19 - Mar 30 by sparks |
Noone suggested that religion never does anythign good- which is what you argued.
Religion does cause deaths. The Pope's rules on contraception in Africa are responsible for an enormous number of AIDS deaths, for a start.
Religion does affect day to day decision making- even amongst those who take the "minding my own business" approach to it. It can persuade them (as in the story in the OP) to behave in a manner harmful to others and to themselves. |
Religion does affect day to day decision making- even amongst those who take the "minding my own business" approach to it. It can persuade them (as in the story in the OP) to behave in a manner harmful to others and to themselves.
As well as the opposite.
Thing is, for every objection that is brought to this argument a counter is available. The dance will continue until the death, at which point one will be correct. |  | | |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:29 - Mar 30 with 1122 views | giant_stow |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:19 - Mar 30 by sparks |
Noone suggested that religion never does anythign good- which is what you argued.
Religion does cause deaths. The Pope's rules on contraception in Africa are responsible for an enormous number of AIDS deaths, for a start.
Religion does affect day to day decision making- even amongst those who take the "minding my own business" approach to it. It can persuade them (as in the story in the OP) to behave in a manner harmful to others and to themselves. |
The charges put forward by you guys are pretty serious and made without any qualification - no strawman. | |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:31 - Mar 30 with 1114 views | StokieBlue |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 09:41 - Mar 30 by Lord_Lucan |
It is chaos in India with workers in big cities trying to get back to their towns and villages, it makes the US evacuation of Saigon look like a picnic. |
This sounds truly awful and a disaster waiting to explode :(.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/mar/30/divided-delhi-under-l
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:43 - Mar 30 with 1092 views | sparks |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:29 - Mar 30 by Durovigutum |
Religion does affect day to day decision making- even amongst those who take the "minding my own business" approach to it. It can persuade them (as in the story in the OP) to behave in a manner harmful to others and to themselves.
As well as the opposite.
Thing is, for every objection that is brought to this argument a counter is available. The dance will continue until the death, at which point one will be correct. |
Thats not a counter. Its just a vague allusion to Pascal's Wager. [Post edited 30 Mar 2020 13:43]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:43 - Mar 30 with 1089 views | sparks |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:29 - Mar 30 by giant_stow |
The charges put forward by you guys are pretty serious and made without any qualification - no strawman. |
Which one? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
| |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:52 - Mar 30 with 1076 views | Ryorry |
Re how temperature affects Covid_19, I read an article couple of days ago (in Live Science I think) which suggested that humidity played a bigger part than temperature in the virus' ability to spread. Basically it said that both very dry & very humid atmospheres enabled it to spread faster (hence high number of cases in Iran, eg), whereas just moderate humidity tended to check the spread - 50% was given as ideal for slowing it down.
Temperature does play a part in that with, iirc, temps above 25C helping as long as the humidity remains mid-range. I can't find article atm, will look later, but this touches on same thing, tho I haven't had time to read it right through yet.
https://www.indiaspend.com/early-studies-claim-heat-humidity-will-slow-down-covi | |
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| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:55 - Mar 30 with 1069 views | eireblue |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 08:48 - Mar 30 by sparks |
This is precisely what I was talking about the other day when I argued that religious beliefs affect day to day decisions which can do harm even amongst the 'I'm not pushing it on anyone else ' mindset. |
Hmmm, yes you make a good point.
I guess the guiding principle that should be adopted by religious types, in a democracy such as ours, you still follow the rule of law and that has supremacy. |  | | |
| It's Ok God will save me, and me, and me, he'll save us all... on 13:57 - Mar 30 with 1065 views | hampstead_blue |
there could very well be contagion of a different kind.
That of civil disorder. That is properly scary. A couple of our guys, ex-SF said "when do we start shooting?"...... | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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