Forum | Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. by Terry_Nutkins

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. 12:54 - Apr 26 with 11001 views

Speaks for itself. Even if you couldn't see it clearly yourself, you would have to be a special kind of self important, pig headed and unreasonable sort not to take that information and admit ok, He's probably a lot better than i realised.Pretty much all the players and managers he has worked with rate him as prem quality....and yet....we even had someone a couple of days ago put him in there worst 11 of Evans era. Stupid and disrespectful.

Hopefully when he does hang up his boots he'll get a good send off.

Poll:

Genuine answers please on what you would choose next season!

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 07:22 - Apr 27 with 1493 views

Chrisd

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 22:42 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe
So in 15 games against top 8 sides, we’ve managed to score twice in just one of those games but yet the defence needs to be doing more?

So being able to defend leads isn’t important either? In 4/5 of those games, we’ve taken the lead.

[Post edited 27 Apr 2020 7:29]

Poll:

Where are we going to finish?

-1

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 07:54 - Apr 27 with 1472 views

itfcjoe

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 07:22 - Apr 27 by Chrisd
So being able to defend leads isn’t important either? In 4/5 of those games, we’ve taken the lead. [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 7:29]

Of course defending is important, but you won’t a find a single metric which shows we don’t have a good defence for this league - everywhere puts it 4th or 5th in the league.

We are 10th. The reason for that isn’t our defence. We’ve lost our last 3 home games 0-1.

Our defence isn’t an issue, look at the other end of the pitch.

Poll:	Club vs country? What would you choose
Blog:	What is Going on With the Academy at Ipswich Town?

HANG ON on 08:54 - Apr 27 with 1445 views

itfcjoe

HANG ON on 22:28 - Apr 26 by unstableblue

I like Skuse, and he’s a pretty decent player.

But I’m afraid he has held the pivotal role in a team in real decline.

You’re referencing players he’d played with in this deteriorating team as a proof point of his quality.

Again I like Skuse and on his day he can put in a good performance. BUT, when I listen to the interviews with Holland and Magilton and their massive motivation to dominate games and pass AGGRESSIVELY... you realise Skuse is miles away from the player we needed and need.

He has scored really no goals, but more importantly he just grabbed maybe only 1 or 2 games out of 10 by the balls. Just not good enough.

Also a young Flynn Downes in his first full season has showed more guts in a game than perhaps Skuse has show in several recent seasons.

Sorry but your argument is really flawed.

I've never been the biggest fan of Skuse, but when every player who has played with him, and every manager who has managed him will praise him to what seem very high levels then it's time to accept that their opinions are more valid.

Jay Tabb was waxing lyrical about him when he did co-comms on a game earlier this season, Paul Lambert who was a top European CM says how he good he is and should be able to judge.

Magilton was part of a side that finished 5th in the PL and then still a key part in a side that ended up finishing 15th in the Championsip in 2005/06.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take Jim 100 times out of 100 over Skuse, but to lay the blame for the decline at his door seems silly - the issue is we got rid of good players. At one point our striking options were Murphy, McGoldrick, Sears and Pitman (+ Fraser) - when we sold Murphy we replaced him with Leon Best, and then Keiffer Moore (+ Lawrence).

Mick was given a bit of money to replace them and we ended up with Waghorn, Garner, Sears and McGoldrick (+ Celina) - but then they were replaced by Jackson, Harrison and Sears.

I think the biggest issue is just lack of quality up front - goals are the hardest thing to do - scoring them, or knowing you have the capability to score them, makes defending much easier. Defending when you know if you concede a goal you aren't going to win keeps the pressure on all game, it's not sustainable.

Poll:	Club vs country? What would you choose
Blog:	What is Going on With the Academy at Ipswich Town?

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 09:02 - Apr 27 with 1433 views

longtimefan

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 21:15 - Apr 26 by Chrisd

For all those clean sheets, it's still only 3 against our promotion rivals. In fact, looking more closely and this is why for me the defending is so important and can have a huge impact on our season:

We've played the top 8, 15 times until now, winning 1 against Fleetwood (away), drawing 6 and losing 8. 4 of those draws were score draws - 1-1 Sunderland (home), 2-2 Peterborough (away), 1-1 Coventry (away) and 1-1 Wycombe (away) and 6 of those defeats were 1-0 losses - Portsmouth, Rotherham, Oxford, Fleetwood, Coventry and Sunderland. All ifs and buts I know, but if we had defended better in those games those 4 draws could now be wins and those 6 losses could've been draws, those additional points now added on to our current total. Even if it was only 3 of those games it affected, it would put us right in the promotion shake up.

Although, I do fully understand the point you have been making about our lack of goals throughout this thread, the defence plays a pivotal role too. Keeping clean sheets against Bolton or Southend is a minimum requirement, it's those important games against fellow promotion chasers that is going to define our season and that's where we have come up short defensively.

In most of those draws you mention we would have had three points if our striker could have converted even half the good chances created. Against Sunderland and Coventry we should have had the game wrapped up by half-time, especially Coventry where 3-0 at the half-way stage wouldn't have been unreasonable. Against Peterborough we even managed to miss a penalty!

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 09:13 - Apr 27 with 1428 views

Chrisd

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 07:54 - Apr 27 by itfcjoe
Of course defending is important, but you won’t a find a single metric which shows we don’t have a good defence for this league - everywhere puts it 4th or 5th in the league. We are 10th. The reason for that isn’t our defence. We’ve lost our last 3 home games 0-1. Our defence isn’t an issue, look at the other end of the pitch.

The fact we are 10th is partly down to our defence (42% of the goals we've conceded has come against our promotion rivals in those 15 games) as we can't keep teams out and end up losing or drawing games those important matches. Interestingly, Ipswich's % of shots on target this season is 34.9% from 152 attempts which is the 4th highest percentage in L1.

Clearly, I think differently to you and probably would be a far more defensively minded coach.

Poll:

Where are we going to finish?

-2

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 09:26 - Apr 27 with 1422 views

itfcjoe

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 09:13 - Apr 27 by Chrisd

Conceding goals is inevitable - the best teams will generally concede about 40 goals over a league season - we are well within that range.

Edit - also our 15 games is 40.5% of our season - so we've conceded 42% of our goals across 40.5% of our games.......can you let me know how the rest of the top 8 compare?

[Post edited 27 Apr 2020 9:28]

Poll:	Club vs country? What would you choose
Blog:	What is Going on With the Academy at Ipswich Town?

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 09:36 - Apr 27 with 1417 views

Chrisd

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 09:26 - Apr 27 by itfcjoe
Conceding goals is inevitable - the best teams will generally concede about 40 goals over a league season - we are well within that range. Edit - also our 15 games is 40.5% of our season - so we've conceded 42% of our goals across 40.5% of our games.......can you let me know how the rest of the top 8 compare? [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 9:28]

I’d need time on that, it would be an interesting comparison. Also, 15 goals, which we’ve conceded in those games against the top 8, divided by the 36 goals we’ve conceded in total equates to 41.6%, therefore 42%.

[Post edited 27 Apr 2020 9:55]

Poll:

Where are we going to finish?

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 10:27 - Apr 27 with 1398 views

NotSure

I think this is down to selfish reasons though.

Skuse does the unglamorous work that other Midfielder don't want to do.
And you don't have to be quite as organised in defence with a decent defensive midfielder in front of you.

If I was a pro footballer I'd love to have Skuse in the team.
"Go and get the ball for me please, thanks".

HANG ON on 11:29 - Apr 27 with 1383 views

unstableblue

HANG ON on 08:54 - Apr 27 by itfcjoe

Joe - I really don't think I am "lay[ing] the blame for the decline at his door seems silly"

I seemingly rate Skuse more than you.

My criticism is as much about the state of our central midfield through our decline, which has been at the heart of our decline, perhaps one of the biggest factors.

You're referencing striker quality but we had Waghorn in the hapless 17-18 season, when we finished 12th, and our ability to dominate midfield, pass effectively, and critically pass forward aggressively was reaching a new low.

Perhaps Skuse has always lacked the right player beside him during his time here, to be truly effective, Hyam, Tabb, Douglas... terribly unsuited central partnerships. MAJOR factor in our decline and our ever widening gap from the 'Ipswich Way'.

I still contest that Skuse (even without an effective partner, did no grab enough games by the scruff of the neck, when he did, he looked imperious, and warranted the praise his peers are giving him). I saw Downes do that a lot this season.

Again only an opinion, and could well be wrong!

Poll:

How do you rate the new home kit out of 5?

HANG ON on 12:09 - Apr 27 with 1367 views

Herbivore

HANG ON on 11:29 - Apr 27 by unstableblue

We were hapless in finishing 12th in the second tier? What sort of adjectives are you reaching for to describe the shower that was last season and this one? For all that you bemoan our lack of ability to create chances and play on the front foot that season we're not creating and scoring anymore this season in the third tier, and let's not even mention last season.

It's odd that you and others hark back to Mick's time like it was the end of days when his very worst seasons here were still much, much better than the past 2 years since his departure have been.

[Post edited 27 Apr 2020 12:45]

Poll:	Latest TWTD opinion poll - who are you voting for?
Blog:	Where Did It All Go Wrong for Paul Hurst?

HANG ON on 12:36 - Apr 27 with 1365 views

itfcjoe

HANG ON on 11:29 - Apr 27 by unstableblue

In 17/18 - we finished 12 - scored 60 goals, and won 17 games.

This season - we are 10th - have scored 46 goals and won 14 games

Extrapolate this season out to 46 games

We'd score 57 goals, and win 17.4 games.

I'm not saying that 17/18 was a great season, it wasn't, but it's been better than this season in a harder league with a small budget compared to being big hitters.

Yes we didn't dominate games, but we were a limited side, this year we should be dominating them and we just don't. Sadly 17/18 is proving to be a high end achievement compared to what has followed.

I know it's gone away from the point, but I think the decline in CM is as much about lack of quality as anything else. When Bishop played with Skuse we looked good, when Huws played with Skuse we looked good, eben Hyam through most of 14/15.

I reckon had Huws, Adeyemi and Skuse been fit for the whole of 17-18 that hapless season would have had us knocking on the door of the top 6.

For me it's just a quality issue, Skuse isn't good enough to run a midfield on his own, very few are - Downes has done at times this year, but when he was really flying at the start of the season was when he was paired up with Skuse.

I spoke to someone very well connected at the club who has had a long playing career in top two tiers recently who told me he gave Huws a pass as still isn't fit but no other midfielder in the squad is fit to lace the boots of Downes and Skuse.

Poll:	Club vs country? What would you choose
Blog:	What is Going on With the Academy at Ipswich Town?

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:46 - Apr 27 with 1347 views

Chutney

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:56 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe
Same with Chambers too, nearly everyone (maybe everyone) has put him in their team - whilst some fans think Chambers and Skuse are the problems here.

I don't think you can question Chambers attitude, commitment, professionalism, leadership etc. However there's a very valid argument against some of his on field performances this season. 3 or 4 years ago, certainly, and that's when the likes of Bart are probably basing their thinking from, but on recent evidence he's past it at this level.

HANG ON on 13:16 - Apr 27 with 1326 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

HANG ON on 22:28 - Apr 26 by unstableblue

Cole Skuse joined us in 2013 - during that time we finished in the top half 4 times in 5 seasons (having done so once in the 5 seasons prior) before then finishing bottom and toiling in the third division when half the side around him was sold and replaced by inadequate players

Flynn Downes meanwhile became a regular in 2018 when we finished bottom of the league (having finished in the top half in 4 of the 5 seasons prior), and are now toiling in the third division

Yet Skuse has ‘held a pivotal role in a team in real decline’ whilst Downes is worthy of praise - do you see how stupid that line is?

Sorry but your argument is really flawed

	Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Poll:	Would you want Messi to sign?

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:28 - Apr 27 with 1311 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 09:26 - Apr 27 by itfcjoe
Conceding goals is inevitable - the best teams will generally concede about 40 goals over a league season - we are well within that range. Edit - also our 15 games is 40.5% of our season - so we've conceded 42% of our goals across 40.5% of our games.......can you let me know how the rest of the top 8 compare? [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 9:28]

Coventry have conceded 16 of their 30 goals against vs the top 8. That’s 53% of their goals conceded, from 32% of their games played (11 of 34). They’ve also only kept 3 clean sheets in those games

Baffled as to how anyone can look at the stats and the problem is anything other than us not being good enough going forwards

	Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Poll:	Would you want Messi to sign?

HANG ON on 13:37 - Apr 27 with 1297 views

judespiveyg

HANG ON on 13:16 - Apr 27 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Downes is better than Skuse has ever been for us as a defensive midfielder. I cannot think of one aspect of playing the position which Skuse does better. Skuse had a better team around him those first few years than Downes has ever had.
Skuse isn't terrible, but of all the players to ever start 250 games for Ipswich I bet Skuse is the most certifiably average.

I survived Ipswich 0-0 Burton

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:41 - Apr 27 with 1293 views

Dubtractor

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:28 - Apr 27 by C_HealyIsAPleasure
Coventry have conceded 16 of their 30 goals against vs the top 8. That’s 53% of their goals conceded, from 32% of their games played (11 of 34). They’ve also only kept 3 clean sheets in those games Baffled as to how anyone can look at the stats and the problem is anything other than us not being good enough going forwards

100% this second point. Almost winds me up when people moan about our defence when our problem so very clearly is at the other end, and has been for the last 2, maybe 3, seasons.

And Skuse can be summed up as having been a very good player for us, but his ability has seemingly dramatically declined over the last 12 to 18 months.

	I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun. I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
Poll:	Important Christmas poll - which is the best Celebration chocolate?

HANG ON on 13:45 - Apr 27 with 1286 views

Herbivore

HANG ON on 13:37 - Apr 27 by judespiveyg
Downes is better than Skuse has ever been for us as a defensive midfielder. I cannot think of one aspect of playing the position which Skuse does better. Skuse had a better team around him those first few years than Downes has ever had. Skuse isn't terrible, but of all the players to ever start 250 games for Ipswich I bet Skuse is the most certifiably average.

What nonsense.

Poll:	Latest TWTD opinion poll - who are you voting for?
Blog:	Where Did It All Go Wrong for Paul Hurst?

HANG ON on 13:45 - Apr 27 with 1287 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

HANG ON on 13:37 - Apr 27 by judespiveyg
Downes is better than Skuse has ever been for us as a defensive midfielder. I cannot think of one aspect of playing the position which Skuse does better. Skuse had a better team around him those first few years than Downes has ever had. Skuse isn't terrible, but of all the players to ever start 250 games for Ipswich I bet Skuse is the most certifiably average.

I was illustrating how stupid using Skuse having a pivotal role in a team that has declined is - we’ve declined far quicker and more sharply since Downes has been in the team

That said your first sentence is massively over stretching things, and whilst Skuse is probably pretty low on the ‘best players to play 250 games’ list, the fact that he is on that list at all having been selected regularly by 3 different managers is quite telling

	Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Poll:	Would you want Messi to sign?

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:48 - Apr 27 with 1271 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:41 - Apr 27 by Dubtractor
100% this second point. Almost winds me up when people moan about our defence when our problem so very clearly is at the other end, and has been for the last 2, maybe 3, seasons. And Skuse can be summed up as having been a very good player for us, but his ability has seemingly dramatically declined over the last 12 to 18 months.

Indeed, it’s not rocket science, is almost like there are other reasons people are so desperate to jump on Chambers and Skuse

	Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Poll:	Would you want Messi to sign?

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:57 - Apr 27 with 1257 views

Chrisd

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:28 - Apr 27 by C_HealyIsAPleasure
Coventry have conceded 16 of their 30 goals against vs the top 8. That’s 53% of their goals conceded, from 32% of their games played (11 of 34). They’ve also only kept 3 clean sheets in those games Baffled as to how anyone can look at the stats and the problem is anything other than us not being good enough going forwards

Not saying that at all, I've been suggesting that if our defence was tighter in the big games it would've helped us to gain more points especially when we've finished on the wrong end of a 1-0 defeat or a score draw. I've just gone through the top 8 including our results against them. 6 of the top 8 have a better % of goals conceded against their promotion rivals than our 42%. Coventry's is actually 57% if you include our results against them in the league home and away. They have also kept 4 clean sheets as they beat us more recently 0-1 at PR. Currently as it stands, Portsmouth = 38%, Fleetwood = 32%, Sunderland = 41%, Wycombe = 41%, Oxford = 38% and Rotherham = 34%. Even Gillingham have a 38% against the top 8 and us.

I've never disagreed with Joe's point about our attack, I've suggested through-out that if our defending was better in those crucial games it could've made a difference.

[Post edited 27 Apr 2020 16:56]

Poll:

Where are we going to finish?

HANG ON on 14:10 - Apr 27 with 1247 views

judespiveyg

HANG ON on 13:45 - Apr 27 by Herbivore
What nonsense.

Care to elaborate?

I survived Ipswich 0-0 Burton

HANG ON on 14:20 - Apr 27 with 1230 views

Herbivore

HANG ON on 14:10 - Apr 27 by judespiveyg
Care to elaborate?

The claim that Downes is already a better defensive midfielder than Skuse has ever been and that there isn't a single attribute where Skuse has ever been better is just garbage. Downes is a huge talent for sure, but he's basically had one good season in League 1 and even in this season he's had spells of being off the boil. He doesn't yet read the game as well as Skuse in his pomp, he doesn't break play up as well. He is better at pushing forward but then he's more of a box to box player than a defensive midfielder. Downes has the potential to be a better player than Skuse ever was for sure but to claim that this version of Downes is better in every aspect of playing as a defensive midfielder than Skuse has ever been is ridiculous. It's laughably biased in fact. Skuse was a key part of a side that finished top 10 in the Championship three seasons in a row. Downes hasn't got close to that level yet.

Poll:	Latest TWTD opinion poll - who are you voting for?
Blog:	Where Did It All Go Wrong for Paul Hurst?

HANG ON on 14:30 - Apr 27 with 1223 views

judespiveyg

HANG ON on 14:20 - Apr 27 by Herbivore

Downes is a better tackler than Skuse and has more energy and speed to close down so breaks up play better than Skuse. 'Reading the game' is an empty expression people use to justify Skuse not crossing the halfway line.
I notice that this thread highlights lack of goals being our problem, you don't think that a cause of this might be because we have a centre mid (not a defender) who never scores or gets assists.

I survived Ipswich 0-0 Burton

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:32 - Apr 27 with 1221 views

C_HealyIsAPleasure

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:57 - Apr 27 by Chrisd

[Post edited 27 Apr 2020 16:56]

No idea why you’re including us in stats re games v the top 8, but even allowing for that your %’s are way off

Coventry have conceded 16 of their 30 goals v the top 8. 53% from 32% of their games
Rotherham have conceded 13 of 38 v the top 8. 34% of goals conceded - but only 28.5% of their games have been against those teams
Oxford have conceded 16 of 37 - 43% from 28.5% of games
Portsmouth is 17 of 36 - 47% from 34% of games
Fleetwood 12 of 38 - 31.5% from 34% of games
Peterborough 18 of 40 - 45% from 34% of games
Sunderland 13 of 32 - 40.5% from 33%
Wycombe 20 of 40 - 50% from 32%

No idea why you’re highlighting % of total goals conceded as it’s a stupid metric is stupid anyway, but even using that we are comparable to every team in the top 8 except perhaps Fleetwood

Looking at goals per game v the top 8, a far more obvious measure, we have the third best record from those teams (again behind Fleetwood, and Sunderland)

But the problems are definitely in defence

	Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Poll:	Would you want Messi to sign?

Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:37 - Apr 27 with 1217 views

OsborneOneNil

Skuse has played in some of the worst teams in our history, no surprise he gets in. As others have said, he wouldn't get a sniff during the days of Magic & Holland, let alone the glory days of the Robson reign.

He and Chambo have been above average, at best, since joining and have slipped to below average, and that's in the 3rd Division.

I do find it entertaining, the endless arguments on here between those of us who see them as 'ok', and those that seem to think they're among the best to have ever donned the Blue shirt. Incredible.

-2

Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread