| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. 12:54 - Apr 26 with 10996 views | Terry_Nutkins |
Speaks for itself. Even if you couldn't see it clearly yourself, you would have to be a special kind of self important, pig headed and unreasonable sort not to take that information and admit ok, He's probably a lot better than i realised.Pretty much all the players and managers he has worked with rate him as prem quality....and yet....we even had someone a couple of days ago put him in there worst 11 of Evans era. Stupid and disrespectful.
Hopefully when he does hang up his boots he'll get a good send off. |  |
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| HANG ON on 14:40 - Apr 27 with 1940 views | Herbivore |
| HANG ON on 14:30 - Apr 27 by judespiveyg |
Downes is a better tackler than Skuse and has more energy and speed to close down so breaks up play better than Skuse. 'Reading the game' is an empty expression people use to justify Skuse not crossing the halfway line.
I notice that this thread highlights lack of goals being our problem, you don't think that a cause of this might be because we have a centre mid (not a defender) who never scores or gets assists. |
Downes tackles more than Skuse, that's partly because Skuse rarely needs to tackle as his positioning is so good he gets in and intercepts. A couple of years ago he was leading the way in Europe in terms of interceptions made. Skuse is/was more effective at breaking up the play for sure. I'm not sure how anyone who has watched us regularly over the past 5 years would think otherwise. Downes has more to his game going forward but this discussion is about which of them is a better defensive midfielder and your outlandish claim that Downes is already better in every aspect of that role than Skuse has ever been. |  |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:47 - Apr 27 with 1930 views | Herbivore |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:37 - Apr 27 by OsborneOneNil |
Skuse has played in some of the worst teams in our history, no surprise he gets in. As others have said, he wouldn't get a sniff during the days of Magic & Holland, let alone the glory days of the Robson reign.
He and Chambo have been above average, at best, since joining and have slipped to below average, and that's in the 3rd Division.
I do find it entertaining, the endless arguments on here between those of us who see them as 'ok', and those that seem to think they're among the best to have ever donned the Blue shirt. Incredible. |
Sorry, who thinks they're amongst the best ever to have donned the shirt? Cracking bit of straw manning going on there. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 15:34 - Apr 27 with 1898 views | Chrisd |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:32 - Apr 27 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
No idea why you’re including us in stats re games v the top 8, but even allowing for that your %’s are way off
Coventry have conceded 16 of their 30 goals v the top 8. 53% from 32% of their games
Rotherham have conceded 13 of 38 v the top 8. 34% of goals conceded - but only 28.5% of their games have been against those teams
Oxford have conceded 16 of 37 - 43% from 28.5% of games
Portsmouth is 17 of 36 - 47% from 34% of games
Fleetwood 12 of 38 - 31.5% from 34% of games
Peterborough 18 of 40 - 45% from 34% of games
Sunderland 13 of 32 - 40.5% from 33%
Wycombe 20 of 40 - 50% from 32%
No idea why you’re highlighting % of total goals conceded as it’s a stupid metric is stupid anyway, but even using that we are comparable to every team in the top 8 except perhaps Fleetwood
Looking at goals per game v the top 8, a far more obvious measure, we have the third best record from those teams (again behind Fleetwood, and Sunderland)
But the problems are definitely in defence |
Terrific summary.  | |
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| HANG ON on 15:41 - Apr 27 with 1894 views | longtimefan |
| HANG ON on 14:30 - Apr 27 by judespiveyg |
Downes is a better tackler than Skuse and has more energy and speed to close down so breaks up play better than Skuse. 'Reading the game' is an empty expression people use to justify Skuse not crossing the halfway line.
I notice that this thread highlights lack of goals being our problem, you don't think that a cause of this might be because we have a centre mid (not a defender) who never scores or gets assists. |
"'Reading the game' is an empty expression people use to justify Skuse not crossing the halfway line."
That is patently rubbish. To justify the concept of "Reading the game" one only needs to utter the words "John Wark in the later stages of his career as a defender" [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 19:14]
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 16:02 - Apr 27 with 1880 views | OsborneOneNil |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:47 - Apr 27 by Herbivore |
Sorry, who thinks they're amongst the best ever to have donned the shirt? Cracking bit of straw manning going on there. |
Lol.....you get my point, despite the slight exaggeration.
I'm also 'ok' with the fact that some rate Skuse, like yourself, and others don't. It's fine, it's what football is all about. Posters like you always refer to the fact he's played so many games and has always been picked by all managers, so he must be good. To counter that, I can also tell you that many ex-players, from the better days, think he's not that great and is/has been a big part of the issue we've had in creating little over the past 5 years with a one paced and highly limited ball playing midfield. So take your pick!
Who's the best ever footballer? You'll probably say Pele, I'll say Maradona. Who's correct? No one, it's an opinion.
Oh, and cheer up, you always come across a bit arrogant and moody on here, whereas you might actually be a nice bloke who smiles. Sometimes. |  | | |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 16:04 - Apr 27 with 1878 views | Herbivore |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 16:02 - Apr 27 by OsborneOneNil |
Lol.....you get my point, despite the slight exaggeration.
I'm also 'ok' with the fact that some rate Skuse, like yourself, and others don't. It's fine, it's what football is all about. Posters like you always refer to the fact he's played so many games and has always been picked by all managers, so he must be good. To counter that, I can also tell you that many ex-players, from the better days, think he's not that great and is/has been a big part of the issue we've had in creating little over the past 5 years with a one paced and highly limited ball playing midfield. So take your pick!
Who's the best ever footballer? You'll probably say Pele, I'll say Maradona. Who's correct? No one, it's an opinion.
Oh, and cheer up, you always come across a bit arrogant and moody on here, whereas you might actually be a nice bloke who smiles. Sometimes. |
No, I'm moody and arrogant all the time. | |
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| HANG ON on 16:20 - Apr 27 with 1870 views | Radlett_blue |
| HANG ON on 15:41 - Apr 27 by longtimefan |
"'Reading the game' is an empty expression people use to justify Skuse not crossing the halfway line."
That is patently rubbish. To justify the concept of "Reading the game" one only needs to utter the words "John Wark in the later stages of his career as a defender" [Post edited 27 Apr 2020 19:14]
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Exactly. I saw Skuse's Town debut at Reading & my main observations was that he was very disciplined at holding position, which actually meant that he hardly ever crossed the half way line. This may be how the manager wanted him to play, of course, but 2 goals in 264 Town games as a midfield player tells its own story. Probably not too many assists either. |  |
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| HANG ON on 16:52 - Apr 27 with 1847 views | Herbivore |
| HANG ON on 16:20 - Apr 27 by Radlett_blue |
Exactly. I saw Skuse's Town debut at Reading & my main observations was that he was very disciplined at holding position, which actually meant that he hardly ever crossed the half way line. This may be how the manager wanted him to play, of course, but 2 goals in 264 Town games as a midfield player tells its own story. Probably not too many assists either. |
If you're judging Skuse by goals scored you are spectacularly missing the point. Claude Makelele scored 3 goals in 357 appearances for Real Madrid and Chelsea and was widely regarded as an outstanding defensive midfielder. Players that can play that role and score goals are as rare as hen's teeth and tend to command a huge premium. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 17:34 - Apr 27 with 1829 views | OsborneOneNil |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 16:04 - Apr 27 by Herbivore |
No, I'm moody and arrogant all the time. |
Haha!
Good man :) | | | |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 22:33 - Apr 27 with 1779 views | braveblue |
Does make you wonder why no one has tried to sign him!! | | | |
| HANG ON on 09:20 - Apr 28 with 1739 views | Radlett_blue |
| HANG ON on 16:52 - Apr 27 by Herbivore |
If you're judging Skuse by goals scored you are spectacularly missing the point. Claude Makelele scored 3 goals in 357 appearances for Real Madrid and Chelsea and was widely regarded as an outstanding defensive midfielder. Players that can play that role and score goals are as rare as hen's teeth and tend to command a huge premium. |
I'm not judging him purely by that, it's just an illustration of his reluctance to get forward, although that may be partly down to the manager's instructions. He did score 9 times for Bristol city in a similar number of games, which may be an indication of a player in decline or one who was used differently. Skuse has been a solid holding midfield player for Town, but his slowness on the ball & reluctance to try to use it positively has been a big part of the dull football that's been played by Town over many years. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 09:26 - Apr 28 with 1736 views | Herbivore |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 22:33 - Apr 27 by braveblue |
Does make you wonder why no one has tried to sign him!! |
Probably because he's the wrong side of 30 and we've not been interested in selling him. Not exactly rocket science, mate. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:26 - Apr 28 with 1702 views | PJH |
and another one, it is amazing how many ex ITFC players do not understand football,apparently. |  | | |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:38 - Apr 28 with 1689 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:26 - Apr 28 by PJH |
and another one, it is amazing how many ex ITFC players do not understand football,apparently. |
Although in this case Smith has selected Aaron Cresswell at CB and Ryan Fraser & Andros Townsend as wing backs, so there is a pretty decent argument that he doesn’t! |  |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:14 - Apr 28 with 1667 views | MattinLondon |
Going back to when we actually picked Skuse up as a free agent - were we the only club interested in him? Were any PL clubs or Championship with bigger budgets seriously interested in Skuse as well? |  | | |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:19 - Apr 28 with 1661 views | itfcjoe |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:14 - Apr 28 by MattinLondon |
Going back to when we actually picked Skuse up as a free agent - were we the only club interested in him? Were any PL clubs or Championship with bigger budgets seriously interested in Skuse as well? |
We had him on a pre contract I think, he was signed well before his contract ended.
“I had a few options but with Mick McCarthy and Terry Connor in charge at Ipswich, that shows the intent of the club to move forward and I can’t wait to get going.”
At one point I think he was linked with Fulham or Watford.
 Town Confirm Skuse Deal 14th May 2013 10:34Town have confirmed that former Bristol City skipper Cole Skuse has agreed to join the Blues on a three-year contract on July 1st. The 27-year-old midfielder’s terms with his hometown club are up at the end of June.  61
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:19 - Apr 28 with 1664 views | Herbivore |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:14 - Apr 28 by MattinLondon |
Going back to when we actually picked Skuse up as a free agent - were we the only club interested in him? Were any PL clubs or Championship with bigger budgets seriously interested in Skuse as well? |
If they were he'd have signed for them I imagine. At the tone he signed we were still paying fairly reasonable wages for the league. We managed to get Didz on a free on decent wages in that period too. | |
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| HANG ON on 12:52 - Apr 30 with 1615 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| HANG ON on 08:54 - Apr 27 by itfcjoe |
I've never been the biggest fan of Skuse, but when every player who has played with him, and every manager who has managed him will praise him to what seem very high levels then it's time to accept that their opinions are more valid.
Jay Tabb was waxing lyrical about him when he did co-comms on a game earlier this season, Paul Lambert who was a top European CM says how he good he is and should be able to judge.
Magilton was part of a side that finished 5th in the PL and then still a key part in a side that ended up finishing 15th in the Championsip in 2005/06.
Don't get me wrong, I'd take Jim 100 times out of 100 over Skuse, but to lay the blame for the decline at his door seems silly - the issue is we got rid of good players. At one point our striking options were Murphy, McGoldrick, Sears and Pitman (+ Fraser) - when we sold Murphy we replaced him with Leon Best, and then Keiffer Moore (+ Lawrence).
Mick was given a bit of money to replace them and we ended up with Waghorn, Garner, Sears and McGoldrick (+ Celina) - but then they were replaced by Jackson, Harrison and Sears.
I think the biggest issue is just lack of quality up front - goals are the hardest thing to do - scoring them, or knowing you have the capability to score them, makes defending much easier. Defending when you know if you concede a goal you aren't going to win keeps the pressure on all game, it's not sustainable. |
Absolutely spot on. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:54 - Apr 30 with 1615 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 10:27 - Apr 27 by NotSure |
I think this is down to selfish reasons though.
Skuse does the unglamorous work that other Midfielder don't want to do.
And you don't have to be quite as organised in defence with a decent defensive midfielder in front of you.
If I was a pro footballer I'd love to have Skuse in the team.
"Go and get the ball for me please, thanks". |
Come off it! Yes that was defo their thinking when putting in their best 11s....and the managers....oh wait. | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 12:56 - Apr 30 with 1611 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 14:37 - Apr 27 by OsborneOneNil |
Skuse has played in some of the worst teams in our history, no surprise he gets in. As others have said, he wouldn't get a sniff during the days of Magic & Holland, let alone the glory days of the Robson reign.
He and Chambo have been above average, at best, since joining and have slipped to below average, and that's in the 3rd Division.
I do find it entertaining, the endless arguments on here between those of us who see them as 'ok', and those that seem to think they're among the best to have ever donned the Blue shirt. Incredible. |
What are you on about? | |
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| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 13:00 - Apr 30 with 1603 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Cole Skuse in every team of players who have played with him. on 16:02 - Apr 27 by OsborneOneNil |
Lol.....you get my point, despite the slight exaggeration.
I'm also 'ok' with the fact that some rate Skuse, like yourself, and others don't. It's fine, it's what football is all about. Posters like you always refer to the fact he's played so many games and has always been picked by all managers, so he must be good. To counter that, I can also tell you that many ex-players, from the better days, think he's not that great and is/has been a big part of the issue we've had in creating little over the past 5 years with a one paced and highly limited ball playing midfield. So take your pick!
Who's the best ever footballer? You'll probably say Pele, I'll say Maradona. Who's correct? No one, it's an opinion.
Oh, and cheer up, you always come across a bit arrogant and moody on here, whereas you might actually be a nice bloke who smiles. Sometimes. |
Your counter argument isnt a counter argument though. Its just saying there are more people who have your opinion (which we already know to be the case) and won't back down when everyone who has ever played and managed skuse say he is superb and massively underated and undervalued. Like to man they have said this. | |
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| HANG ON on 13:05 - Apr 30 with 1598 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| HANG ON on 09:20 - Apr 28 by Radlett_blue |
I'm not judging him purely by that, it's just an illustration of his reluctance to get forward, although that may be partly down to the manager's instructions. He did score 9 times for Bristol city in a similar number of games, which may be an indication of a player in decline or one who was used differently. Skuse has been a solid holding midfield player for Town, but his slowness on the ball & reluctance to try to use it positively has been a big part of the dull football that's been played by Town over many years. |
Its the role he plays. Don't judge him on that at all really. Busquets is one of the finest players of his generation. Plays that role, scores no goals. And he plays in a team who win everything. Nobody is saying Skuse is anywhere near busquets by the way but the role is the same. Nobody in their right mind would judge Busquets on his scoring.His value is clear to see.
Skuse would actually have had a better career higher up. Never moans but our style is not a good fit. | |
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| HANG ON on 10:19 - May 1 with 1552 views | Libero |
| HANG ON on 13:05 - Apr 30 by Terry_Nutkins |
Its the role he plays. Don't judge him on that at all really. Busquets is one of the finest players of his generation. Plays that role, scores no goals. And he plays in a team who win everything. Nobody is saying Skuse is anywhere near busquets by the way but the role is the same. Nobody in their right mind would judge Busquets on his scoring.His value is clear to see.
Skuse would actually have had a better career higher up. Never moans but our style is not a good fit. |
You're 100% correct, obviously.
Recently I was listening to a Tifo podcast, I think this one was possibly about the history of formations? or numbering? I really don't remember actually as I've been listening to so many of them recently. Anyway, they were asking the rhetorical question about if players maybe aren't as good at football as they were even 15/20 years ago.
The general consensus was that due to both tactical innovation and a focus on athleticism over the last three decades players have become very good at playing in their particular role but these roles are much more niche and narrow than they used to be.
They actually used the example of centre midfield and the way that what used to be a role for players with all round ability who were equally as good going forwards as they were going backwards has now divested into these various niche roles depending on system and style of play. "Defensive midfielder" isn't really something you'd have heard lots in the lexicon of football in the late 90's and early 00's until Jose Mourinho came in at Chelsea and started playing 4-3-3 with one of the midfield three designated purely to holding infront of the back line.
That's not to say they didn't exist, we all know Geraint Williams did a similar job in the mid 90's for Ipswich but these players were few and far between.
Anyway, because of this I absolutely understand why certain people don't understand or rate the job Skuse or players in his role do. |  | | |
| HANG ON on 11:16 - May 1 with 1531 views | Radlett_blue |
| HANG ON on 10:19 - May 1 by Libero |
You're 100% correct, obviously.
Recently I was listening to a Tifo podcast, I think this one was possibly about the history of formations? or numbering? I really don't remember actually as I've been listening to so many of them recently. Anyway, they were asking the rhetorical question about if players maybe aren't as good at football as they were even 15/20 years ago.
The general consensus was that due to both tactical innovation and a focus on athleticism over the last three decades players have become very good at playing in their particular role but these roles are much more niche and narrow than they used to be.
They actually used the example of centre midfield and the way that what used to be a role for players with all round ability who were equally as good going forwards as they were going backwards has now divested into these various niche roles depending on system and style of play. "Defensive midfielder" isn't really something you'd have heard lots in the lexicon of football in the late 90's and early 00's until Jose Mourinho came in at Chelsea and started playing 4-3-3 with one of the midfield three designated purely to holding infront of the back line.
That's not to say they didn't exist, we all know Geraint Williams did a similar job in the mid 90's for Ipswich but these players were few and far between.
Anyway, because of this I absolutely understand why certain people don't understand or rate the job Skuse or players in his role do. |
Not so. Many years ago - certainly in the 1960S & 1970s - most teams had one ball-winning midfield player of limited passing ability. Such types were formerly wing-halves in the 1950s. Peter Storey, Nobby Stiles etc. | |
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| HANG ON on 11:28 - May 1 with 1519 views | Libero |
| HANG ON on 11:16 - May 1 by Radlett_blue |
Not so. Many years ago - certainly in the 1960S & 1970s - most teams had one ball-winning midfield player of limited passing ability. Such types were formerly wing-halves in the 1950s. Peter Storey, Nobby Stiles etc. |
Aye, aware of these times and it was discussed on the podcast, however very different role in terms of what was expected of the individual and those around him and most importantly the threat he faced from the opposition in that role.
You just have to accept that comparing football from the 60's/70's/80's with anything from late 90's onward just doesn't stick unfortunately.
I have to say the Tifo podcasts on the history of formations and numbering etc were very informative and answered a lot of questions I'd asked my Dad in the past about how X, Y worked in the old 2-3-5 formation that didn't make much sense when he explained it.
I'm fascinated currently with if/how the old formation could be/is being implemented/reinvented in modern football. | | | |
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