| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? 14:16 - Apr 30 with 2358 views | pointofblue |
I presume the above is one point which will be considered when debating the relaxing of lockdown restrictions - when do the measures currently in place have a more devastating effect on mental health, partially as a result of seclusion and financial woes, which in many cases could result in hospitalisation and/or an increase in suicide rates when compared to those who fall ill and pass from Covid-19? And how close are we to this already? This isn’t taking into account those who fear visiting hospital because of the virus resulting in illnesses not being screened and treated adequately.
It’s such a fine balance between the two and I honestly don’t know if there’s a clear definitive answer to the question. [Post edited 30 Apr 2020 14:16]
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 14:41 - Apr 30 with 2275 views | MattinLondon |
Anytime after July.
In my opinion schools and nurseries will be the first ‘businesses’ to reopen and then everything staggered after this.
Personally home working should be a ‘thing’ which we keep regardless of normality returning. |  | | |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 14:43 - Apr 30 with 2269 views | ITFC_Forever |
It was a point Trumpy raised (as subtley as ever) right at the start.
And he has a point.
And the answer will be different for every person you speak to, depending on the value you put on life. And try having that discussion after the event with a family who have lost a loved one due to the relaxing of restrictions.
There's no right or wrong answer. |  |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 15:57 - Apr 30 with 2192 views | Guthrum |
As this progresses, I think the impact upon people's mental state will begin to reduce. They will evolve new routines and coping procedures. There will be a degree of adjustment to the "new nornal".
That's not to say everything will be happy, or that there won't be long-lasting mental scars (such as people had/have who lived through major wars and upheavals like the end of the Soviet Union).
But the shock and sense of loss will fade in time.
Perhaps thinking in terms of a sudden or traumatic bereavement. In this case the demise of our old lives. |  |
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| n/t (n/t) on 16:03 - Apr 30 with 2173 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
[Post edited 30 Apr 2020 16:14]
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:12 - Apr 30 with 2163 views | bluelagos |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 14:43 - Apr 30 by ITFC_Forever |
It was a point Trumpy raised (as subtley as ever) right at the start.
And he has a point.
And the answer will be different for every person you speak to, depending on the value you put on life. And try having that discussion after the event with a family who have lost a loved one due to the relaxing of restrictions.
There's no right or wrong answer. |
Indeed.
The NHS have been using Qalys for years to ration treatment. It is a crude method and we studied it at Uni 30 years ago (Along with pandemic modelling as it goes)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-adjusted_life_year
But ultimately you can't opt to keep everyone alive, as there are finite resources. These decisions on a one off basis are horrible ones, but they are routinely made in the NHS. (Rather them than me)
To have to make a similar call where literally tens of thousands of lives will depend on it, is fookin horrible to even think about. But that is exactly what will be facing our politicians at some point.
The economic and social costs of the lockdown are astronomical, as are the human costs of releasing it. For those in power it really is about choosing the least worst of two horrible options. |  |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:24 - Apr 30 with 2135 views | homer_123 |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 14:41 - Apr 30 by MattinLondon |
Anytime after July.
In my opinion schools and nurseries will be the first ‘businesses’ to reopen and then everything staggered after this.
Personally home working should be a ‘thing’ which we keep regardless of normality returning. |
It's already confirmed that schools returns will happen and be staggered. Businesses can't really re-open until these do anyway.
Gov had communicated weeks back that the relaxation will be done in reverse. |  |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:27 - Apr 30 with 2129 views | factual_blue |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:12 - Apr 30 by bluelagos |
Indeed.
The NHS have been using Qalys for years to ration treatment. It is a crude method and we studied it at Uni 30 years ago (Along with pandemic modelling as it goes)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quality-adjusted_life_year
But ultimately you can't opt to keep everyone alive, as there are finite resources. These decisions on a one off basis are horrible ones, but they are routinely made in the NHS. (Rather them than me)
To have to make a similar call where literally tens of thousands of lives will depend on it, is fookin horrible to even think about. But that is exactly what will be facing our politicians at some point.
The economic and social costs of the lockdown are astronomical, as are the human costs of releasing it. For those in power it really is about choosing the least worst of two horrible options. |
The DHSS used to have actuarial calculations done on the impact of increasing the tax on tobacco and alcohol. How much would the cost be of the state pension for people who would give up (or reduce) drinking and smoking because of a tax increase on their poison of choice.
Those calculations would in turn inform decisions on the amount of a tax increase. |  |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:28 - Apr 30 with 2122 views | BloomBlue |
There was a cancer Doctor on TV this morning and she said she normally sees a lot of women with breast lumps every week but in the last 2 weeks not one patient and as she said those lumps haven't stopped. She made the point if you don't deal with these early then they lead to deaths.
As many have said before more people will die from cancer than CV because they're too scared of catching CV if they go to the Doctor |  | | |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:29 - Apr 30 with 2122 views | Lord_Lucan |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 15:57 - Apr 30 by Guthrum |
As this progresses, I think the impact upon people's mental state will begin to reduce. They will evolve new routines and coping procedures. There will be a degree of adjustment to the "new nornal".
That's not to say everything will be happy, or that there won't be long-lasting mental scars (such as people had/have who lived through major wars and upheavals like the end of the Soviet Union).
But the shock and sense of loss will fade in time.
Perhaps thinking in terms of a sudden or traumatic bereavement. In this case the demise of our old lives. |
The people who I can't shake out of my head are the poor feckers who have to look after family members with dementia, autism, etc etc etc etc, the list goes on. |  |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:32 - Apr 30 with 2106 views | homer_123 |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:28 - Apr 30 by BloomBlue |
There was a cancer Doctor on TV this morning and she said she normally sees a lot of women with breast lumps every week but in the last 2 weeks not one patient and as she said those lumps haven't stopped. She made the point if you don't deal with these early then they lead to deaths.
As many have said before more people will die from cancer than CV because they're too scared of catching CV if they go to the Doctor |
I've seen an awful lot of communication from the NHS that clearly states if you need to see your Doctor, GP or need a Hospital appointment - then don't let CV stop you - other services are still running and people in that kid of situation can and should go.
The NHS has the capacity to deal with them and they shouldn't be choosing not to go. | |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:35 - Apr 30 with 2092 views | Lord_Lucan |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:32 - Apr 30 by homer_123 |
I've seen an awful lot of communication from the NHS that clearly states if you need to see your Doctor, GP or need a Hospital appointment - then don't let CV stop you - other services are still running and people in that kid of situation can and should go.
The NHS has the capacity to deal with them and they shouldn't be choosing not to go. |
I had a text from my surgery advising me that they are in effect open for business and they advised their email address.
I emailed them about my Goutbreak and the lazy bastards haven't responded. | |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:37 - Apr 30 with 2085 views | bluelagos |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:32 - Apr 30 by homer_123 |
I've seen an awful lot of communication from the NHS that clearly states if you need to see your Doctor, GP or need a Hospital appointment - then don't let CV stop you - other services are still running and people in that kid of situation can and should go.
The NHS has the capacity to deal with them and they shouldn't be choosing not to go. |
The reason those communications are going out is because many people who should be seeking NHS help aren't at the moment.
The "Stay at home" message has been so effective, arguably too effective if that makes sense. | |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:37 - Apr 30 with 2084 views | NotSure |
Well we've flattened the curve and saved the NHS (at least until the next time the Tories mess with it).
But you have visible deaths announced every day at 2.30pm and invisible deaths announced by the ONS every Tuesday. And politicians only care about visible things. |  | | |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:41 - Apr 30 with 2064 views | Lord_Lucan |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:37 - Apr 30 by bluelagos |
The reason those communications are going out is because many people who should be seeking NHS help aren't at the moment.
The "Stay at home" message has been so effective, arguably too effective if that makes sense. |
What about my gout? | |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:58 - Apr 30 with 2051 views | eireblue |
I don’t think it is helpful to pose either/or questions.
I would hope our politicians and decision makers are not going to fall into the trap of position the issue as a dilemma. Leave Trump to do stupid stuff like that, and cause polarisation in the populace.
You just have to decide how to deal with the situation, and think of optimal outcomes in different spheres of activity.
We have specialist hospital buildings and centres for specific activity. We will have better testing and track and tracing. We can choose to spend money on different priorities.
In this new world, it maybe better to spend more on health care services, better broadband, and de-prioritise things like HS2.
Individual areas will have issues and solutions. Our expectation should be that the politicians that are paid primarily to protect people are competent and can do that. |  | | |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 18:07 - Apr 30 with 1998 views | Darth_Koont |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 15:57 - Apr 30 by Guthrum |
As this progresses, I think the impact upon people's mental state will begin to reduce. They will evolve new routines and coping procedures. There will be a degree of adjustment to the "new nornal".
That's not to say everything will be happy, or that there won't be long-lasting mental scars (such as people had/have who lived through major wars and upheavals like the end of the Soviet Union).
But the shock and sense of loss will fade in time.
Perhaps thinking in terms of a sudden or traumatic bereavement. In this case the demise of our old lives. |
I go the other way.
What was a novelty at first will begin to irk. And there are also an awful lot of people who are hung out higher and drier as the economic effect starts to bite.
The young are making a hell of a sacrifice for the old. The poor are making a hell of a sacrifice for the rich. Minorities are making a hell of a sacrifice for the majority. As they should for a matter of months but if it's longer than that and is going to adversely affect their future (which it will) then the mood will turn. |  |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 18:12 - Apr 30 with 1985 views | Darth_Koont |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:29 - Apr 30 by Lord_Lucan |
The people who I can't shake out of my head are the poor feckers who have to look after family members with dementia, autism, etc etc etc etc, the list goes on. |
Indeed. I feel priveleged to be able to work from home, know my parents are OK, my kids too and think the worst that can happen is missing out on social events and losing some money.
I have total respect and sympathy for the people who already need support and a normal society to help them deal with abnormal situations. | |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 18:14 - Apr 30 with 1981 views | Guthrum |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 16:29 - Apr 30 by Lord_Lucan |
The people who I can't shake out of my head are the poor feckers who have to look after family members with dementia, autism, etc etc etc etc, the list goes on. |
For some of those people, they've practically been in lockdown for years. Friend of mine looks after his bedridden and seriously ill wife (who also suffers from crippling anxiety). He gets to leave the house at most about a dozen times a year. | |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 18:23 - Apr 30 with 1965 views | pointofblue |
| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 18:07 - Apr 30 by Darth_Koont |
I go the other way.
What was a novelty at first will begin to irk. And there are also an awful lot of people who are hung out higher and drier as the economic effect starts to bite.
The young are making a hell of a sacrifice for the old. The poor are making a hell of a sacrifice for the rich. Minorities are making a hell of a sacrifice for the majority. As they should for a matter of months but if it's longer than that and is going to adversely affect their future (which it will) then the mood will turn. |
I agree; I think as time goes on patience and understanding is going to wane resulting in mental health issues or worse - especially if their businesses or family finances are on the brink of crumbling. Articles like the below from Sky is hardly going to help in terms of this either; people may either say stuff it and ignore the restrictions or become more and more annoyed with lockdown even if they are sticking to it.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-95-of-victims-in-england-hospitals-had-un
Not saying this is right but I think the public as a whole is going to find this more difficult to handle as time goes on rather than easier. | |
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| So at which point is the cure more deadly than the disease? on 19:13 - Apr 30 with 1920 views | jeera |
I think people's individual views may change back once they or someone they care for is having a tube shoved down their windpipe.
Maybe a few graphic images on the TV would be a useful reminder.
I can't help that each time I get told it's only the old/vulnerable who are at risk - as though they're somehow dispensable anyway - be reminded how many NHS/care workers have died so far. Some with little kiddies.
We have a returning poster who is an otherwise healthy chap (I think anyway - sorry to him if I'm wrong ) has been floored with this virus recently and was rightfully concerned for his young family.
How on earth people get in stuck war zones with missiles screeching over their heads all day? Families bombed out with no homes or belongings, traipsing mile upon mile to reach somewhere only to risk their lives on some crap boat, some to drown, others to reach a point of presumed safety only to be herded into some camp and treated like garbage.
We can't cope with a few weeks inside our own homes. [Post edited 30 Apr 2020 19:18]
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