| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best 09:00 - May 19 with 9592 views | hype313 |
And I genuinely didn't know how to answer, first thought was no, but then thought about all the clubs he's played for and his achievements in the game and he must go down as a great, but for some reason I can't find myself putting him in the same bracket as Zidane, or Maradona, or Pele, or Ronaldo (both)
Strange one, I do wonder if his off field antics overshadowed his achievements. |  |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:42 - May 19 with 588 views | TJS |
Top 10 for me is Pele, Maradona, Puskas, Matthews, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Di Stefano, Ronaldo, Messi, Yashin
Ronaldinho would be top 100.
Loved Beckham for England but purely based on the pitch I don't think I would have him in the top 100 [Post edited 19 May 2020 10:43]
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:42 - May 19 with 582 views | ChiefXL |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:38 - May 19 by hype313 |
Ahh was thinking that year might have been wrong.
Whether he fits into the bracket of all time greats is up for debate, but he certainly wasn't overrated in my opinion. |
IMO some on this thread have by placing him in that category.
But each to their own. It's almost as if football is a game of subjective opinions... |  | | |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:46 - May 19 with 573 views | hype313 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:42 - May 19 by ChiefXL |
IMO some on this thread have by placing him in that category.
But each to their own. It's almost as if football is a game of subjective opinions... |
Agreed, but considering he was pivitol in 3 consecutive CL wins for Madrid, along with winning a World Cup and Euros, he certainly wasn't overrated for me, fabulous baller, someone you would pay good money to see. | |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:49 - May 19 with 566 views | ChiefXL |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:42 - May 19 by Libero |
Out of interest, who are the central midfielders that rank above Zidane in your book? |
Good question. And again, subjective opinion and all that but of the ones I've seen...
Scholes
Pirlo
Socrates
Platini
Both Xavi and Iniesta
Maradona is debatable depending on whether you view him as a classic number 8 which he played a lot in his career or a number 10 (similar to Cruyff too)
And for natural talent, Gascoigne
And I never saw him but older generations would throw Bobby Charlton at you too
I am not denigrating Zizou's talents in any shape or form, but for me he's not in that top tier. | | | |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:52 - May 19 with 557 views | ChiefXL |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:49 - May 19 by ChiefXL |
Good question. And again, subjective opinion and all that but of the ones I've seen...
Scholes
Pirlo
Socrates
Platini
Both Xavi and Iniesta
Maradona is debatable depending on whether you view him as a classic number 8 which he played a lot in his career or a number 10 (similar to Cruyff too)
And for natural talent, Gascoigne
And I never saw him but older generations would throw Bobby Charlton at you too
I am not denigrating Zizou's talents in any shape or form, but for me he's not in that top tier. |
Arguably you could throw Gullit into the mix. | | | |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:54 - May 19 with 554 views | Libero |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:49 - May 19 by ChiefXL |
Good question. And again, subjective opinion and all that but of the ones I've seen...
Scholes
Pirlo
Socrates
Platini
Both Xavi and Iniesta
Maradona is debatable depending on whether you view him as a classic number 8 which he played a lot in his career or a number 10 (similar to Cruyff too)
And for natural talent, Gascoigne
And I never saw him but older generations would throw Bobby Charlton at you too
I am not denigrating Zizou's talents in any shape or form, but for me he's not in that top tier. |
Xavi and Scholes are the only players on that list that comes close to Zidane in my opinion and I'm fans of all those listed.
I'm excluding Socrates/Platini/Charlton/etc as comparing football of that era to the modern day is apples and oranges somewhat. |  | | |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:55 - May 19 with 547 views | hype313 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:54 - May 19 by Libero |
Xavi and Scholes are the only players on that list that comes close to Zidane in my opinion and I'm fans of all those listed.
I'm excluding Socrates/Platini/Charlton/etc as comparing football of that era to the modern day is apples and oranges somewhat. |
And out of those three, Zidane was the only one who won a Ballon'dor | |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:59 - May 19 with 545 views | vapour_trail |
Astonished by the lack of recognition for Zidane in this thread. He is in the very top bracket for me, never seen anyone play the game in quite the same way as him. |  |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:07 - May 19 with 538 views | Garv |
I think as someone with such a unique ability to cross a ball he has to be up there as a 'great' but not in the same bracket as those you've mentioned. |  |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:08 - May 19 with 534 views | WeWereZombies |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:42 - May 19 by ChiefXL |
IMO some on this thread have by placing him in that category.
But each to their own. It's almost as if football is a game of subjective opinions... |
Strictly speaking, played to Association rules, football is a game between two teams of eleven using a round ball...but the discussion on the sidelines is usually subjective opinions. We can often be certain about scorers, red and yellow cards, assists and so on. The build up of objective statistics (agreed that some of these might be based on disputed decisions) over time can give a good indication of prowess (or lack of) with respect to individual players, especially when Don Howe started to analyse games with a thoroughness that was little known previously:
http://dailycannon.com/2015/12/don-howe-the-hero-in-the-shadows/
But you are right in the respect that the statistics only go so far and do not tell us how the individual made space, took defenders away from a play, contributed to team spirit and so on. |  |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:09 - May 19 with 533 views | Chrisd |
I'm not sure a great; a very good one. Beckham was a terrific footballer and someone that superseded their own sport across the globe, which only the minority achieve. Personally, I think he made the very best of his ability and worked extremely hard on his game. His crossing and delivery from set pieces was second to none in the modern game and you can't fault his club achievements, league titles in 4 different countries, not many can say that. [Post edited 19 May 2020 13:05]
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:09 - May 19 with 532 views | homer_123 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:59 - May 19 by vapour_trail |
Astonished by the lack of recognition for Zidane in this thread. He is in the very top bracket for me, never seen anyone play the game in quite the same way as him. |
Just on French midfielders.....in terms of technical ability, game changer and match winner....Cantona. |  |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:10 - May 19 with 532 views | Libero |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:55 - May 19 by hype313 |
And out of those three, Zidane was the only one who won a Ballon'dor |
Indeed, partially because unlike those mentioned (Xavi/Scholes/Iniesta/etc) he had the ability to turn the tide of a game, take it by the scruff of the neck and be the difference.
He did this time and time again at the top level. | | | |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:13 - May 19 with 528 views | ChiefXL |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:09 - May 19 by homer_123 |
Just on French midfielders.....in terms of technical ability, game changer and match winner....Cantona. |
More of an out and out number 10 though? | | | |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:13 - May 19 with 525 views | Kropotkin123 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:34 - May 19 by WeWereZombies |
Which bracket would you place Stanley Matthews and Ferenc Puskás in? |
Before my time, I'll let others decide.
Matthews impressed me more though, just how long he went on for at the highest level. |  |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:14 - May 19 with 523 views | gordon |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 09:26 - May 19 by StokieBlue |
This really isn't true.
Outside of England where they could see past the Lampard/Gerrard argument I think most players thought he should be in the England side ahead of both of them.
A quote from Xavi:
"In the last 15 to 20 years the best central midfielder that I have seen - the most complete - is Scholes," Xavi said. "I have spoken with Xabi Alonso about this many times. Scholes is a spectacular player who has everything.
"He can play the final pass, he can score, he is strong, he never gets knocked off the ball and he doesn't give possession away. If he had been Spanish, then maybe he would have been valued more."
SB |
Just on Scholes, one of the things about him was that his playing style was entirely minimalist, in the sense that he never, ever did a 'trick' when it wasn't necessary, he didn't ping a 60-yard crossfield pass when it wasn't going to advance an attack, he didn't hold on to the ball too long out of any desire to be at the centre of the action.
Lots of the other players mentioned in this thread (Ronaldinho or Neymar being good examples) are obviously excellent players too, but to some extent play for the crowds. Scholes just played for his team. Having said that, there is something wonderful about the expressiveness and joy of the way someone like Ronaldinho plays. As such, for me rankings are a bit pointless because football is about winning things, but it's also an art.
Having said that, Gianluigi Buffon is the most complete player in his position over the last 30 years, and anyone who doesn't see that doesn't understand football. :) |  | | |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:15 - May 19 with 520 views | homer_123 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:13 - May 19 by ChiefXL |
More of an out and out number 10 though? |
Yes, that's true but my point remains.
His attitude (not dissimilar to a certain Swede) curtailed his international and, at times, and club career but in terms of technical ability etc. up there. | |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:16 - May 19 with 518 views | ChiefXL |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:15 - May 19 by homer_123 |
Yes, that's true but my point remains.
His attitude (not dissimilar to a certain Swede) curtailed his international and, at times, and club career but in terms of technical ability etc. up there. |
Didn't Cantona retire from football completely at the age of 30? | | | |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:19 - May 19 with 511 views | homer_123 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:16 - May 19 by ChiefXL |
Didn't Cantona retire from football completely at the age of 30? |
31 I think - fair to say, he packed a fair bit into his career! It was never dull. | |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:23 - May 19 with 507 views | Kropotkin123 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:37 - May 19 by Chutney |
Lack of dribbling is a bit of an odd criticism, and one that would rule out a number of top midfielders from this debate. Ballack? Scholes? Lampard?
Beckham had the perfect temperament, work rate, will to win and be the best, inspired those around him and backed it all up with world class technique, passing, vision, execution, set pieces. I won't lie, watching Beckham in an England shirt pinging a 60 yard diag is every bit worthy of being uploaded to pornhub. |
All of them are world-class midfielders, but they wouldn't be top tier.
It wasn't intended to be a criticism, just a fair example. Would you put Ronaldo on the same level as Beckham? If not, why not? I'm sure dribbling would be one of those, goalscoring would be another.
For the record, I would put all three of them mentioned as world-class midfielders. Cases could be argued for them to be tier two or tier three. For example, Lampard was one of the best box-to-box midfielders of the past 20+ years.
LOL at the second paragraph. | |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:30 - May 19 with 501 views | Kropotkin123 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 10:29 - May 19 by hype313 |
Zidane was not overrated, in fact you could argue he was underatted, he was an insane player, remember the 98 CL final, he bossed that and scored one of the most jaw dropping goals of the past 30 years. |
I did see them, yes. I was actually in France on holiday at the time. He was an insanely good player. Being alongside Kaka and Bale is not an insult, I think they were insanely good too. For example, Bale is a four-time Champions League winner. He's scored 80 goals in 169 games for Real Madrid, including many important goals.
When I say over-rated, I mean that people rate him as good as Messi and Ronaldo, and I don't. Not that he wasn't world-class. | |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:33 - May 19 with 500 views | Parsley |
Love these debates between who is a top player vs top, top player vs all-time great vs world class. Everyone has their own definitions so no one can agree. Generational is a new one I've heard which I'm not totally sure what it means.
Beckham was a really good player and would get into most sides. His crossing and set pieces were exceptional and you don't become one of the most-capped England players by luck. |  | | |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:49 - May 19 with 486 views | hype313 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:33 - May 19 by Parsley |
Love these debates between who is a top player vs top, top player vs all-time great vs world class. Everyone has their own definitions so no one can agree. Generational is a new one I've heard which I'm not totally sure what it means.
Beckham was a really good player and would get into most sides. His crossing and set pieces were exceptional and you don't become one of the most-capped England players by luck. |
Indeed, and you could make a case for everyone in the list, Duncan Edwards was by all accounts a phenomenal player, however, all of us bar Facters have never seen him play, we can only go on reports/quotes/anecdotes.
FWIW I think there are lots of greats, most names mentioned on here would be classed in that bracket, but for the GOAT you realistically have to look at one of Pele, Messi, Maradona and Ronaldo. | |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:49 - May 19 with 488 views | Pendejo |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:33 - May 19 by Parsley |
Love these debates between who is a top player vs top, top player vs all-time great vs world class. Everyone has their own definitions so no one can agree. Generational is a new one I've heard which I'm not totally sure what it means.
Beckham was a really good player and would get into most sides. His crossing and set pieces were exceptional and you don't become one of the most-capped England players by luck. |
Definition is always the key and it's subjective.
I have written in this forum before that Maradona is WORLD Class as he, almost single handedly, won the World Cup. He was also largely responsible for the rise of Napolitano from relegation candidates to Scuddetto winners.
Surely to be the best means winning the biggest trophies... That's rule out George Best, who in his prime, was surely THE best footballer the British Isles has ever produced, but he's "only" won one European Cup.
Many of the players named in this sort of thread have had exceptional players around them e.g. Messi and CR7. |  |
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| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:52 - May 19 with 483 views | hype313 |
| My wife just asked if Beckham was one of the best on 11:49 - May 19 by Pendejo |
Definition is always the key and it's subjective.
I have written in this forum before that Maradona is WORLD Class as he, almost single handedly, won the World Cup. He was also largely responsible for the rise of Napolitano from relegation candidates to Scuddetto winners.
Surely to be the best means winning the biggest trophies... That's rule out George Best, who in his prime, was surely THE best footballer the British Isles has ever produced, but he's "only" won one European Cup.
Many of the players named in this sort of thread have had exceptional players around them e.g. Messi and CR7. |
Both Messi and Ronaldo have both had great players around them which helps, but you only have to look at them to see how they both single handedly win games consistently on a turn. | |
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