| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical 00:27 - Jul 14 with 4233 views | ArnieM |
In their promotion ?
Their form over the last 6 league games until CoVid stopped the league was not the best. They couldn’t guarantee they’d secure the points required to sneak back into the Play off zone ( Posh were in full flight stuffing teams left right and centre at this point in time )
They vote NOT to complete the season ....
But Vote FOR the PPG suggestion ( no doubt having worked out it would catapult them into play offs by virtue of their game in hand - the PPG WERE guaranteed points)....
Whereby they are suddenly all up for playing the play off games ( no problem there then)....
All smacks of a Club that has well and truly mugged off the rest of League One and the EFL to me .
Am I being unjust ? |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 00:33 - Jul 14 with 2450 views | catch74 |
Could you name a club that didn’t vote for what was best for them?
I think anyone in their right mind would vote for anything that would help their club get promoted/ extra £8m a year etc etc. |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 00:35 - Jul 14 with 2447 views | ArnieM |
Which is why the EFL are a crock of shyte . I can fully understand the Posh fans and Club being as peed off as they were. It was a ridiculous way to end the season. And I’m my view very unfair on Clubs above WW who lost out . [Post edited 14 Jul 2020 0:36]
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 00:45 - Jul 14 with 2424 views | gainsboroughblue |
It doesn't sit brilliantly with me, but lets not forget that our own club proposed a play-off system that was laughed out of the room. |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 01:02 - Jul 14 with 2388 views | SuperCoops |
In these unprecedented times, clubs voted. Of course the majority voted for what would do the best for their club (as we would expect and do ourselves).
This has never happened before and there were always going to be winners and losers in every scenario. Clubs just need to accept what happened for the good of the game and move on. Maybe the FA can look at contingencies in case this event ever happened again?
Personally, I don't have a problem and can't see the argument when it was voted on. It just so happened we couldn't benefit in any of the scenarios and our own proposal was equally "look after ourselves".
Good luck to Wycombe, they only did what everyone else would have done. [Post edited 14 Jul 2020 1:04]
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 01:05 - Jul 14 with 2387 views | catch74 |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 01:57 - Jul 14 with 2329 views | Illinoisblue |
I think you’re reading too much into it. |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 05:34 - Jul 14 with 2241 views | hammo56 |
As already has been said they voted for what was best for them at the time.
If we had been in their situation I have no doubt we would have gone for the PPG solution. The only difference being we would have still managed to cock it up in the playoffs. |  | | |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 06:53 - Jul 14 with 2172 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 00:35 - Jul 14 by ArnieM |
Which is why the EFL are a crock of shyte . I can fully understand the Posh fans and Club being as peed off as they were. It was a ridiculous way to end the season. And I’m my view very unfair on Clubs above WW who lost out . [Post edited 14 Jul 2020 0:36]
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They probably did end up with the right decision though, unless the season could be finished PPG was the only option really
But yes Wycombe clearly did vote for their own interests |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:26 - Jul 14 with 2127 views | itfcjoe |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 06:53 - Jul 14 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
They probably did end up with the right decision though, unless the season could be finished PPG was the only option really
But yes Wycombe clearly did vote for their own interests |
The issue with PPG, was that the games in hand weren't treated correctly for me - so Wycombe's game in hand was away against Coventry which had been rearranged. Had that game gone to form then they wouldn't have made it and when it was assigned a PPG both teams effectively won the game.
The smaller clubs who were totally anti continuing the season were the big issue, the fact that those doing well were able to push this agenda too was a failing of the football league. Personally I think anyone voting against continuing it shouldn't have been eligible for the POs, because that was a case of letting them have their cake and eat it.
There would likely still have been the numbers, but just doesn't sit right that they could end other teams season whilst continuing their own |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:36 - Jul 14 with 2081 views | Steve_M |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:26 - Jul 14 by itfcjoe |
The issue with PPG, was that the games in hand weren't treated correctly for me - so Wycombe's game in hand was away against Coventry which had been rearranged. Had that game gone to form then they wouldn't have made it and when it was assigned a PPG both teams effectively won the game.
The smaller clubs who were totally anti continuing the season were the big issue, the fact that those doing well were able to push this agenda too was a failing of the football league. Personally I think anyone voting against continuing it shouldn't have been eligible for the POs, because that was a case of letting them have their cake and eat it.
There would likely still have been the numbers, but just doesn't sit right that they could end other teams season whilst continuing their own |
Yes, agree on the last part especially. Voting not to continue the season but participating in the play-offs shouldn't have been an option.
Wycombe definitely benefited most from the timing of the suspension given they were falling, six weeks earlier and we might have done so as well.
All that said, it's a remarkable achievement for them despite the on pitch s1thousery. I'm still pissed off about that fking goal though. |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:53 - Jul 14 with 2030 views | Chrisd |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:36 - Jul 14 by Steve_M |
Yes, agree on the last part especially. Voting not to continue the season but participating in the play-offs shouldn't have been an option.
Wycombe definitely benefited most from the timing of the suspension given they were falling, six weeks earlier and we might have done so as well.
All that said, it's a remarkable achievement for them despite the on pitch s1thousery. I'm still pissed off about that fking goal though. |
Yes they voted to end the season, but they still had to get the job done getting through two play off games and then win the final, on their return. I think good luck to them. If anyone is suggesting that any club wouldn’t look after their own interests then they are just plain daft. Even our play off proposal was to give us an opportunity for promotion even with us languishing in 11th!! Would we be saying that doesn’t sit right, if we’d won that? We’d be too busy celebrating. | |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:54 - Jul 14 with 2026 views | Herbivore |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:26 - Jul 14 by itfcjoe |
The issue with PPG, was that the games in hand weren't treated correctly for me - so Wycombe's game in hand was away against Coventry which had been rearranged. Had that game gone to form then they wouldn't have made it and when it was assigned a PPG both teams effectively won the game.
The smaller clubs who were totally anti continuing the season were the big issue, the fact that those doing well were able to push this agenda too was a failing of the football league. Personally I think anyone voting against continuing it shouldn't have been eligible for the POs, because that was a case of letting them have their cake and eat it.
There would likely still have been the numbers, but just doesn't sit right that they could end other teams season whilst continuing their own |
PPG allocates you an average for the games you've played and as every side had played over 30 games it was about the fairest way it could be done. Wycombe weren't allocated points for the game against Coventry as it hadn't been played. I understand your point but it's made clumsily and looking at individual fixtures that teams had left to play it'd be easy to pick apart why PPG seems less fair on some than on others. |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:57 - Jul 14 with 2001 views | itfc_bucks |
No problem with them voting for what worked best for their club. Everyone did that.
No problem with their "style" of play. It's not pretty, but it works for them.
My problem is with the EFL. They should have got all the clubs together and had a mini league/knockout with the teams that did want to play it out. No promotion if you're not involved. | | | |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:58 - Jul 14 with 1990 views | Herbivore |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:57 - Jul 14 by itfc_bucks |
No problem with them voting for what worked best for their club. Everyone did that.
No problem with their "style" of play. It's not pretty, but it works for them.
My problem is with the EFL. They should have got all the clubs together and had a mini league/knockout with the teams that did want to play it out. No promotion if you're not involved. |
I don't agree with that solution either. Basically it means you can only go up if you can afford it and that's not right in a sporting contest. | |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 08:00 - Jul 14 with 1983 views | itfcjoe |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:54 - Jul 14 by Herbivore |
PPG allocates you an average for the games you've played and as every side had played over 30 games it was about the fairest way it could be done. Wycombe weren't allocated points for the game against Coventry as it hadn't been played. I understand your point but it's made clumsily and looking at individual fixtures that teams had left to play it'd be easy to pick apart why PPG seems less fair on some than on others. |
The Coventry game was their actual 'game in hand' though, that had been rearranged from Jan 25th due to Cioventry being in the FA Cup and was the midweek following lockdown
The season was always a mess due to Bury, and to an extent Bolton, but the top 8 who were clear had all played 35 games bar Cov and Wycombe who had a game in hand against each other, which they both got credit for.
PPG was rather a blunt tool, but if league was split up into mini leagues then a clear issue with the top 8, and when Wycombe one of the sides pushing to end early with PPG it's a bit silly | |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 08:01 - Jul 14 with 1976 views | Swansea_Blue |
The ppg option was voted for by the required majority of clubs, so Wycombe haven’t engineered anything.
I don’t understand this fixation with them. |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 08:09 - Jul 14 with 1937 views | Herbivore |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 08:00 - Jul 14 by itfcjoe |
The Coventry game was their actual 'game in hand' though, that had been rearranged from Jan 25th due to Cioventry being in the FA Cup and was the midweek following lockdown
The season was always a mess due to Bury, and to an extent Bolton, but the top 8 who were clear had all played 35 games bar Cov and Wycombe who had a game in hand against each other, which they both got credit for.
PPG was rather a blunt tool, but if league was split up into mini leagues then a clear issue with the top 8, and when Wycombe one of the sides pushing to end early with PPG it's a bit silly |
They didn't get credit for it. They got credit for the games they actually played, same as everyone else. | |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 08:20 - Jul 14 with 1864 views | Mullet |
Doesn't really matter. We were way off last season and this coming one have to beat 20 odd teams most of the time if our success hinges on Wycombe being in the league then we don't deserve anything any way.
Yes, they've had things go their way and its likely they'd have dropped like a stone in a normal season, but how nice is it that the money gets shared around a bit too. Someone like Sunderland going up doesn't really do much for the game, but Wycombe getting a season or two up there before coming down helps the pyramid a little at least.
The sight of Akinfenwa as a super sub skittling Canaries next season will be funny. [Post edited 14 Jul 2020 9:33]
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 09:30 - Jul 14 with 1729 views | IpswichKnight |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 08:20 - Jul 14 by Mullet |
Doesn't really matter. We were way off last season and this coming one have to beat 20 odd teams most of the time if our success hinges on Wycombe being in the league then we don't deserve anything any way.
Yes, they've had things go their way and its likely they'd have dropped like a stone in a normal season, but how nice is it that the money gets shared around a bit too. Someone like Sunderland going up doesn't really do much for the game, but Wycombe getting a season or two up there before coming down helps the pyramid a little at least.
The sight of Akinfenwa as a super sub skittling Canaries next season will be funny. [Post edited 14 Jul 2020 9:33]
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Good point as the scum can't defend a cross for anything! | | | |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 09:47 - Jul 14 with 1679 views | bournemouthblue |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 07:26 - Jul 14 by itfcjoe |
The issue with PPG, was that the games in hand weren't treated correctly for me - so Wycombe's game in hand was away against Coventry which had been rearranged. Had that game gone to form then they wouldn't have made it and when it was assigned a PPG both teams effectively won the game.
The smaller clubs who were totally anti continuing the season were the big issue, the fact that those doing well were able to push this agenda too was a failing of the football league. Personally I think anyone voting against continuing it shouldn't have been eligible for the POs, because that was a case of letting them have their cake and eat it.
There would likely still have been the numbers, but just doesn't sit right that they could end other teams season whilst continuing their own |
For us it also fell down in the fact we still had Bolton and Southend to play along with a few other lower placed sides
Ultimately we didn't deserve a play-off place but we should have finished strongly
Should
We'll never know what would have happened |  |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 10:10 - Jul 14 with 1636 views | JakeITFC |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 08:09 - Jul 14 by Herbivore |
They didn't get credit for it. They got credit for the games they actually played, same as everyone else. |
Yes that's the point - they get rewarded for having not played Coventry away.
PPG was a materially unfair way to determine the end table. |  | | |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 10:12 - Jul 14 with 1616 views | Facefacts |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 00:45 - Jul 14 by gainsboroughblue |
It doesn't sit brilliantly with me, but lets not forget that our own club proposed a play-off system that was laughed out of the room. |
Interesting point. I actually liked our idea. It would have stopped Wycombe (we can't possibly play without crowds but we could manage 3 play off games) and brought Sunderland into play. It would have gained more traction if proposed much earlier. We are far too slow: Marcus Evans cannot compete with Barry Fry and Darragh McAnthony. We might find that League One ends up being 8 or 10 clubs, ie. those prepared to play with reduced attendance. Plus 2 or 4 from League Two, which would fold. |  | | |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 10:13 - Jul 14 with 1608 views | Herbivore |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 10:10 - Jul 14 by JakeITFC |
Yes that's the point - they get rewarded for having not played Coventry away.
PPG was a materially unfair way to determine the end table. |
That's a weird way of looking at it. They got rewarded for their performance over the 30+ games they've played, focusing on one unplayed fixture that didn't factor into their PPG tally is a bit odd. PPG isn't entirely fair but if the season was to end early but still have a conclusion what would you propose as being a fairer system? | |
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| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 10:42 - Jul 14 with 1569 views | JakeITFC |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 10:13 - Jul 14 by Herbivore |
That's a weird way of looking at it. They got rewarded for their performance over the 30+ games they've played, focusing on one unplayed fixture that didn't factor into their PPG tally is a bit odd. PPG isn't entirely fair but if the season was to end early but still have a conclusion what would you propose as being a fairer system? |
It's not a weird way of looking at it at all - teams that had played easier fixtures to that point were effectively given a double benefit.
The overriding priority should have been to finish the season - as mentioned elsewhere, it is absolute rubbish that teams in the play-offs could vote against finishing the games on whatever grounds and then happily play those matches.
Once that was ruled out, some sort of weighted expected points model would have been much more preferable than a flat PPG. My personal preference would have been to have agreed on a model, run x-thousand scenarios and then randomly pick one of those scenarios (rather than taking the weighted average scenario), but ultimately if any team has a non-zero chance of going up or down, then that should be reflected in any league ending scenario. | | | |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 11:12 - Jul 14 with 1504 views | Herbivore |
| Have Wycombe been quite calculating and cynical on 10:42 - Jul 14 by JakeITFC |
It's not a weird way of looking at it at all - teams that had played easier fixtures to that point were effectively given a double benefit.
The overriding priority should have been to finish the season - as mentioned elsewhere, it is absolute rubbish that teams in the play-offs could vote against finishing the games on whatever grounds and then happily play those matches.
Once that was ruled out, some sort of weighted expected points model would have been much more preferable than a flat PPG. My personal preference would have been to have agreed on a model, run x-thousand scenarios and then randomly pick one of those scenarios (rather than taking the weighted average scenario), but ultimately if any team has a non-zero chance of going up or down, then that should be reflected in any league ending scenario. |
What you're suggesting would have taken months of work to do. Modelling is incredibly complex, there are so many variables, and there will always be subjective choices made around which variables to include and exclude and how much weight to give to each variable. It's just not realistic. I've always said that if this season couldn't be completed it should have been voided as that seemed to me to be the least bad option. Once they decided they wanted the season to have a conclusion I don't see a more workable solution than points per game. [Post edited 14 Jul 2020 11:28]
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