| Poor from M&S. on 14:01 - Aug 2 with 2804 views | J2BLUE |
| Poor from M&S. on 13:14 - Aug 2 by 26_Paz |
No, they’re doing it because for some reason certain elements of society seem to want to out do each other in how woke they can be |
I'm starting to think you're a very poor comedy creation.
Or just incredibly thick. |  |
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| Poor from M&S. on 14:03 - Aug 2 with 2794 views | footers |
| Poor from M&S. on 13:57 - Aug 2 by WeWereZombies |
Although an Argentine joke has it that they won the Falklands War because they were able to get rid of their dictator straight away and we were stuck with ours for another decade. |
And like all good jokes, funny because it's true.
I still hate the whole thing for making the price of corned beef go up. Bastards. |  |
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| Poor from M&S. on 14:04 - Aug 2 with 2789 views | NthQldITFC |
| Poor from M&S. on 13:46 - Aug 2 by Herbivore |
But we won the war!!!! |
Ee-aye-adio.
I never buy my globes from M&S anyway, too much talcum powder in the atmosphere for my taste. |  |
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| Poor from M&S. on 14:05 - Aug 2 with 2782 views | footers |
| Poor from M&S. on 14:01 - Aug 2 by J2BLUE |
I'm starting to think you're a very poor comedy creation.
Or just incredibly thick. |
Don't be mean to Paz. I'm trying to coach him round to the leftybumfest side of the argument. If you can be deradicalised, then so can anyone. | |
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| Poor from M&S. on 14:28 - Aug 2 with 2744 views | SpruceMoose |
| Poor from M&S. on 13:14 - Aug 2 by 26_Paz |
No, they’re doing it because for some reason certain elements of society seem to want to out do each other in how woke they can be |
Ffs Paz just try engaging your brain for once. |  |
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| Poor from M&S. on 19:41 - Aug 2 with 2653 views | 26_Paz |
| Poor from M&S. on 14:05 - Aug 2 by footers |
Don't be mean to Paz. I'm trying to coach him round to the leftybumfest side of the argument. If you can be deradicalised, then so can anyone. |
You’ve got some task on your hands there mate! |  |
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| Poor from M&S. on 22:58 - Aug 2 with 2590 views | StokieBlue |
| Poor from M&S. on 20:39 - Aug 1 by noggin |
I'll tell you what was a slap in the face for British troops who died there.... The fact that Thatcher sent them to their deaths. America offered to broker peace but she wanted blood. |
Not entirely true.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303816504577313852502105454
The US offered to broker a situation where the Argentineans basically kept the islands.
Given the population continually vote to be British how is that different to someone invading the Isle of Wight and then the US offering to broker a deal which involves them keeping it because they believe it's theirs?
Essentially the implication is that might is right and that invasions of democratic countries or protectorates are acceptable and the wishes of the existing population are secondary.
As for the opening post, does it really matter? Seems like something that you'd usually accuse someone of being a snowflake over if they got upset.
SB |  |
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| Poor from M&S. on 13:18 - Aug 3 with 2488 views | solomon |
| Poor from M&S. on 20:39 - Aug 1 by noggin |
I'll tell you what was a slap in the face for British troops who died there.... The fact that Thatcher sent them to their deaths. America offered to broker peace but she wanted blood. |
They did offer to broker peace, which we rejected, much the same as we rejected their invasion of communist Caribbean revolutionary Grenada 12 months late. |  | | |
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| Poor from M&S. on 13:40 - Aug 3 with 2461 views | Darth_Koont |
Blimey! Chill out.
They're internationally also called the Malvinas, Malouines etc. Nothing to see here. |  |
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| Poor from M&S. on 15:38 - Aug 3 with 2404 views | noggin |
| Poor from M&S. on 13:18 - Aug 3 by solomon |
They did offer to broker peace, which we rejected, much the same as we rejected their invasion of communist Caribbean revolutionary Grenada 12 months late. |
From what I have read, America wanted a full withdrawal of Argentine troops before brokering a peace plan. That wasn't enough for Thatcher and 255 British servicemen and hundreds of young Argentinian conscripts sadly lost their lives. |  |
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| Poor from M&S. on 15:50 - Aug 3 with 2382 views | 26_Paz |
| Poor from M&S. on 15:38 - Aug 3 by noggin |
From what I have read, America wanted a full withdrawal of Argentine troops before brokering a peace plan. That wasn't enough for Thatcher and 255 British servicemen and hundreds of young Argentinian conscripts sadly lost their lives. |
To win back our sovereign territory which had been illegally invaded against the democratically expressed wishes of those who lived there. | |
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| Poor from M&S. on 15:52 - Aug 3 with 2376 views | StokieBlue |
| Poor from M&S. on 15:38 - Aug 3 by noggin |
From what I have read, America wanted a full withdrawal of Argentine troops before brokering a peace plan. That wasn't enough for Thatcher and 255 British servicemen and hundreds of young Argentinian conscripts sadly lost their lives. |
That doesn't tally with the WSJ article I posted above.
Do you have a link?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Poor from M&S. on 15:55 - Aug 3 with 2363 views | noggin |
| Poor from M&S. on 15:52 - Aug 3 by StokieBlue |
That doesn't tally with the WSJ article I posted above.
Do you have a link?
SB |
https://www.thereaganfiles.com/document-collections/the-falklands-crisis.html
"Secretary Haig’s “Shuttle Diplomacy” was officially launched on April 6 (see Document 2), and on April 8 he arrived in London hoping to persuade Great Britain to allow for the creation of an interim administration over the Falklands in which Argentine forces would comply with UN Resolution 502, which required a complete withdrawal. Prime Minister Thatcher, however, would not negotiate anything less than the withdrawal of all Argentineans; restoration of the British administration; and preservation of the right of self-determination for the Falklanders. (See Document 3.)"
I can't read your link as there is a paywall. [Post edited 3 Aug 2020 15:56]
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| Poor from M&S. on 15:57 - Aug 3 with 2350 views | noggin |
| Poor from M&S. on 15:50 - Aug 3 by 26_Paz |
To win back our sovereign territory which had been illegally invaded against the democratically expressed wishes of those who lived there. |
I take it none of your children were killed down there? | |
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| Poor from M&S. on 16:00 - Aug 3 with 2338 views | StokieBlue |
| Poor from M&S. on 15:55 - Aug 3 by noggin |
https://www.thereaganfiles.com/document-collections/the-falklands-crisis.html
"Secretary Haig’s “Shuttle Diplomacy” was officially launched on April 6 (see Document 2), and on April 8 he arrived in London hoping to persuade Great Britain to allow for the creation of an interim administration over the Falklands in which Argentine forces would comply with UN Resolution 502, which required a complete withdrawal. Prime Minister Thatcher, however, would not negotiate anything less than the withdrawal of all Argentineans; restoration of the British administration; and preservation of the right of self-determination for the Falklanders. (See Document 3.)"
I can't read your link as there is a paywall. [Post edited 3 Aug 2020 15:56]
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Thanks.
Secretary Haig’s “Shuttle Diplomacy” was officially launched on April 6 (see Document 2), and on April 8 he arrived in London hoping to persuade Great Britain to allow for the creation of an interim administration over the Falklands in which Argentine forces would comply with UN Resolution 502, which required a complete withdrawal. Prime Minister Thatcher, however, would not negotiate anything less than the withdrawal of all Argentineans; restoration of the British administration; and preservation of the right of self-determination for the Falklanders. (See Document 3.)
So basically the Argentinians get to be included in an interim-government which would govern the Falklands. You are surprised Thatcher didn't agree to that?
Do you think that the US would have agreed to Japan having some of the interim government if they invaded Hawaii? Do you think they would agree to their citizens losing their right to self-determination?
Clearly they would never agree to that. It's saying that invasions are the way forward if you want to get your own way.
SB [Post edited 3 Aug 2020 16:01]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Poor from M&S. on 16:04 - Aug 3 with 2321 views | noggin |
| Poor from M&S. on 16:00 - Aug 3 by StokieBlue |
Thanks.
Secretary Haig’s “Shuttle Diplomacy” was officially launched on April 6 (see Document 2), and on April 8 he arrived in London hoping to persuade Great Britain to allow for the creation of an interim administration over the Falklands in which Argentine forces would comply with UN Resolution 502, which required a complete withdrawal. Prime Minister Thatcher, however, would not negotiate anything less than the withdrawal of all Argentineans; restoration of the British administration; and preservation of the right of self-determination for the Falklanders. (See Document 3.)
So basically the Argentinians get to be included in an interim-government which would govern the Falklands. You are surprised Thatcher didn't agree to that?
Do you think that the US would have agreed to Japan having some of the interim government if they invaded Hawaii? Do you think they would agree to their citizens losing their right to self-determination?
Clearly they would never agree to that. It's saying that invasions are the way forward if you want to get your own way.
SB [Post edited 3 Aug 2020 16:01]
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All I'm saying is, there was room for negotiation and Thatcher refused. I see those lives lost, on both sides, as wasted and possibly avoidable. Others think they were necessary and worth the outcome. | |
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| Poor from M&S. on 16:05 - Aug 3 with 2317 views | Darth_Koont |
| Poor from M&S. on 16:00 - Aug 3 by StokieBlue |
Thanks.
Secretary Haig’s “Shuttle Diplomacy” was officially launched on April 6 (see Document 2), and on April 8 he arrived in London hoping to persuade Great Britain to allow for the creation of an interim administration over the Falklands in which Argentine forces would comply with UN Resolution 502, which required a complete withdrawal. Prime Minister Thatcher, however, would not negotiate anything less than the withdrawal of all Argentineans; restoration of the British administration; and preservation of the right of self-determination for the Falklanders. (See Document 3.)
So basically the Argentinians get to be included in an interim-government which would govern the Falklands. You are surprised Thatcher didn't agree to that?
Do you think that the US would have agreed to Japan having some of the interim government if they invaded Hawaii? Do you think they would agree to their citizens losing their right to self-determination?
Clearly they would never agree to that. It's saying that invasions are the way forward if you want to get your own way.
SB [Post edited 3 Aug 2020 16:01]
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The UN resolution was about finding a peaceful solution and avoiding a military conflict and loss of life.
What's wrong with that? Why would the withdrawal of the Argentine military have been a problem? | |
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| Poor from M&S. on 16:14 - Aug 3 with 2285 views | longtimefan |
| Poor from M&S. on 16:04 - Aug 3 by noggin |
All I'm saying is, there was room for negotiation and Thatcher refused. I see those lives lost, on both sides, as wasted and possibly avoidable. Others think they were necessary and worth the outcome. |
This from the I would suggest the UK were willing to negotiate.
“This was interpreted by the British high command as signifying that movement towards her home port by the two ships may well have been acts of subterfuge. The sinking took place 14 hours after the President of Peru, Fernando Belaunde, proposed a comprehensive peace plan which included regional states playing a role. After the sinking, Argentina rejected the plan but the UK indicated its acceptance on 5 May. The news was dominated by military action and it is not well known that the British continued to offer ceasefire terms until 1 June.“
https://www.independent.co.uk/hei-fi/entertainment/moment-that-sank-hopes-of-fal |  | | |
| Poor from M&S. on 16:19 - Aug 3 with 2269 views | StokieBlue |
| Poor from M&S. on 16:05 - Aug 3 by Darth_Koont |
The UN resolution was about finding a peaceful solution and avoiding a military conflict and loss of life.
What's wrong with that? Why would the withdrawal of the Argentine military have been a problem? |
Further down in the document linked by noggin it said the Junta was unwilling to enter any discussions which involved the withdraw of the Argentine military hence she broke off discussions.
They were never going to withdraw them, that was the problem. You seem to be indicating they were willing to - can you provide a source.
Of course trying to avoid loss of life is the most important thing but I think a few viewpoints are based on the generalised hatred of Thatcher rather than the situation as it was in reality.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Poor from M&S. on 16:22 - Aug 3 with 2265 views | StokieBlue |
| Poor from M&S. on 16:04 - Aug 3 by noggin |
All I'm saying is, there was room for negotiation and Thatcher refused. I see those lives lost, on both sides, as wasted and possibly avoidable. Others think they were necessary and worth the outcome. |
Agree that it was a waste of life but what outcome would be fair on the British citizens who lived there?
Anything which wasn't a return to the life they enjoyed before is a justification of violence from the Argentinians which must also surely be unacceptable?
From further down your article the Junta weren't that willing to negotiate either if it involved removing troops (probably because they rightly thought the British would just ignore them once the troops were gone).
I do agree it was a pointless conflict, instigated by the awful Argentinian regime and not handled particularly well by the British.
SB [Post edited 3 Aug 2020 16:23]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Poor from M&S. on 16:23 - Aug 3 with 2261 views | noggin |
| Poor from M&S. on 16:14 - Aug 3 by longtimefan |
This from the I would suggest the UK were willing to negotiate.
“This was interpreted by the British high command as signifying that movement towards her home port by the two ships may well have been acts of subterfuge. The sinking took place 14 hours after the President of Peru, Fernando Belaunde, proposed a comprehensive peace plan which included regional states playing a role. After the sinking, Argentina rejected the plan but the UK indicated its acceptance on 5 May. The news was dominated by military action and it is not well known that the British continued to offer ceasefire terms until 1 June.“
https://www.independent.co.uk/hei-fi/entertainment/moment-that-sank-hopes-of-fal |
After the sinking, which killed over 300 Argentinians. Remember, The Belgrano was not in the exclusion zone and was heading away from the Islands. | |
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| Poor from M&S. on 16:47 - Aug 3 with 2220 views | longtimefan |
| Poor from M&S. on 16:23 - Aug 3 by noggin |
After the sinking, which killed over 300 Argentinians. Remember, The Belgrano was not in the exclusion zone and was heading away from the Islands. |
I suggest you read the previous paragraph to that I’ve quoted in the linked article. I believe the Belgrano Captain has also recently admitted that their course was only temporary, part of there standard submarine avoidance measures.
Edit : Prior to his death, not recently.
[Post edited 3 Aug 2020 16:49]
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| Poor from M&S. on 17:04 - Aug 3 with 2199 views | jaykay |
the globe has got to be withdrawn, its also got honduras not british honduras on it. |  |
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| Poor from M&S. on 17:37 - Aug 3 with 2171 views | hampstead_blue |
Oh dear.
Someone clearly has been at the cooking sherry |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Poor from M&S. on 17:38 - Aug 3 with 2173 views | noggin |
| Poor from M&S. on 16:19 - Aug 3 by StokieBlue |
Further down in the document linked by noggin it said the Junta was unwilling to enter any discussions which involved the withdraw of the Argentine military hence she broke off discussions.
They were never going to withdraw them, that was the problem. You seem to be indicating they were willing to - can you provide a source.
Of course trying to avoid loss of life is the most important thing but I think a few viewpoints are based on the generalised hatred of Thatcher rather than the situation as it was in reality.
SB |
"Haig’s first round in Buenos Aires must have been as disappointing as his first round in London, as the Argentinean’s required a halt to the British Armada before even considering any withdrawal."
Seems they were at least open to negotiation in the early stages. | |
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