| This Dawn Butler incident 23:36 - Aug 9 with 28757 views | ElderGrizzly |
She edited a video to make it look like she was driving, claimed racial profiling when the fuller video shows the driver to 1, not be her and 2 to be white.
The Police are asking to release their bodycam footage
Original, not ‘flipped’ footage here
And the plea from the Met Police Federation
Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:36 - Aug 10 with 1904 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:32 - Aug 10 by itfcjoe |
I forgot the left fought such a good campaign against the right in 2019. They really did the party proud after seizing control of the PLP, NEC, General Secretary role etc |
When did they "seize control" of the PLP and NEC?
But thank God they turfed out McNicol who was doing an appalling job not least on overseeing genuine antisemitism complaints.
The problem with Corbyn and others on the left was that if they'd actually been ruthless as soon as it was apparent that the Labour right weren't interested in unity back in 2016, and not tried to keep working with some of these people, then the Labour party would be in much better shape today. Possibly even the country. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:37 - Aug 10 with 1902 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:29 - Aug 10 by Darth_Koont |
Labour most urgently needs a purge a little bit closer to the PLP and especially those who are always briefing against the left.
The centre has been largely useless against the right (and the direction they're taking the UK) because they're always more concerned with the left.
They need to pull their heads out of their @rses sharpish. |
If they'd all just unite as a party they might stand a chance, that said centrist can point to the fact it was their brand of Labour and only their brand of Labour that has won elections over the last 50 years. I dont blame the left for not being so gung-ho in backing Starmer though, given how constant the centrists were in trying to trip up Corbyn's leadership
The party should split, most of the parties should split in honesty they are all old coalitions not longer fit for purpose.
In an idea world we'd have 6 or 7 smaller parties jocking for position and more coalition governments, which are more democratic as they ensure more than just one parties voice is in government. |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:39 - Aug 10 with 1891 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:34 - Aug 10 by itfcjoe |
They didn't trust Starmer in the first place, they never will so just look for every excuse to attack him with |
Eh? Starmer was elected because members believed his socialist pledges and that he was committed to unity.
Whether he himself is now having to deal with the reality of the Labour establishment in the only way he can is a moot point. It's been very disappointing for a lot of onlookers so far. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:42 - Aug 10 with 1881 views | Radlett_blue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:32 - Aug 10 by Darth_Koont |
I don't think that 24 hours is too long in itself. But I think the problem is that a lot of people don't trust Starmer any more.
I can certainly see that point of view and the underlying concern for where Labour's heading. |
Really? Starmer is a credible alternative PM & is capable of turning the Shadow Cabinet into a credible alternative government. Only a tiny minority of voters support extreme Socialist policies. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:43 - Aug 10 with 1879 views | LankHenners |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:29 - Aug 10 by itfcjoe |
If this is seen as a big deal then there is no hope for the Labour party - his response was fine and the timing was fine. |
It's not a 'big deal' in the sense that it won't win or lose him an election, but it's not difficult to say a quick word of support given what the deal was, especially given that several other MPs managed it, including Boris Johnson.
The response was about what could be expected from Keir Starmer on an issue which combines racism and criticism of the police.
It's not particularly important, just a bit odd to think taking over 24 hours (and longer than Johnson) to make some tepid and slightly vague comment of solidarity is good practice for the leader of the opposition. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:45 - Aug 10 with 1870 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:37 - Aug 10 by jaseitfc2015 |
If they'd all just unite as a party they might stand a chance, that said centrist can point to the fact it was their brand of Labour and only their brand of Labour that has won elections over the last 50 years. I dont blame the left for not being so gung-ho in backing Starmer though, given how constant the centrists were in trying to trip up Corbyn's leadership
The party should split, most of the parties should split in honesty they are all old coalitions not longer fit for purpose.
In an idea world we'd have 6 or 7 smaller parties jocking for position and more coalition governments, which are more democratic as they ensure more than just one parties voice is in government. |
Unfortunately you're ignoring or at least aren't aware of the factionalism going on over the past 5 years.
It's been an utter sh!tshow of back-stabbing and sabotage overwhelmingly from those on the right who just don't like socialism nor members having a say. Because IMO they don't get anything out of that.
We need proper politics and ideas not this pointless jockeying around the establishment that primarily serves the politicians themselves. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:46 - Aug 10 with 1863 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:32 - Aug 10 by itfcjoe |
I forgot the left fought such a good campaign against the right in 2019. They really did the party proud after seizing control of the PLP, NEC, General Secretary role etc |
It’s EVERYONE’S duty to fight the right. It’s not a matter of the left tweaking it enough to appeal to the centre.
Personally I think with all going on it’s about time people picked a side. Truth and humanity, or lies and racism. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:49 - Aug 10 with 1855 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:45 - Aug 10 by Darth_Koont |
Unfortunately you're ignoring or at least aren't aware of the factionalism going on over the past 5 years.
It's been an utter sh!tshow of back-stabbing and sabotage overwhelmingly from those on the right who just don't like socialism nor members having a say. Because IMO they don't get anything out of that.
We need proper politics and ideas not this pointless jockeying around the establishment that primarily serves the politicians themselves. |
why do the left stay in the party?
Corbynism was their only time in leadership over the past 50 years, it looks pretty unlucky the left will be in the driving seat in labour again anytime soon, why not just cut the losses now and leave the party , and join with the greens?
Surely that would make more sense than just to be in this pointless and continual turf war with the centre-left. The left in Britain would be better off concentrating their vote into a new party merged with the greens and possibly the layla moran-wing of the lib dems.
Seems like a constant losing batter staying in labour in a tug of war with the centrists | | | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:49 - Aug 10 with 1853 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:42 - Aug 10 by Radlett_blue |
Really? Starmer is a credible alternative PM & is capable of turning the Shadow Cabinet into a credible alternative government. Only a tiny minority of voters support extreme Socialist policies. |
I think the UK definition of "extreme socialist policy'" is way out of whack with objective reality. Corbyn's platform was bog-standard European social democracy.
I'm more worried about how "normal" it is to accept 4.5 million kids in poverty. And rising.
That's extreme ideology in my book. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:52 - Aug 10 with 1844 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:49 - Aug 10 by jaseitfc2015 |
why do the left stay in the party?
Corbynism was their only time in leadership over the past 50 years, it looks pretty unlucky the left will be in the driving seat in labour again anytime soon, why not just cut the losses now and leave the party , and join with the greens?
Surely that would make more sense than just to be in this pointless and continual turf war with the centre-left. The left in Britain would be better off concentrating their vote into a new party merged with the greens and possibly the layla moran-wing of the lib dems.
Seems like a constant losing batter staying in labour in a tug of war with the centrists |
None of this will matter when wealth equality, authoritarianism, Brexit weakening of the UK and climate change destroys us.
If the country had some foresight we’d all vote Green to, ya know, not die.
In all honesty with the public knowledge of Cummings’ plans I’d be amazed if we even have a legit election in 4 years. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:53 - Aug 10 with 1840 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:49 - Aug 10 by jaseitfc2015 |
why do the left stay in the party?
Corbynism was their only time in leadership over the past 50 years, it looks pretty unlucky the left will be in the driving seat in labour again anytime soon, why not just cut the losses now and leave the party , and join with the greens?
Surely that would make more sense than just to be in this pointless and continual turf war with the centre-left. The left in Britain would be better off concentrating their vote into a new party merged with the greens and possibly the layla moran-wing of the lib dems.
Seems like a constant losing batter staying in labour in a tug of war with the centrists |
Because the Labour Party should be left of centre when it's been reaching centre-right for too long over the years.
My question is why don't the Labour right and its supporters join the LibDems, rather than trying to play with Labour votes and eroding the traditional support? | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:58 - Aug 10 with 1824 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:52 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
None of this will matter when wealth equality, authoritarianism, Brexit weakening of the UK and climate change destroys us.
If the country had some foresight we’d all vote Green to, ya know, not die.
In all honesty with the public knowledge of Cummings’ plans I’d be amazed if we even have a legit election in 4 years. |
On a related note, I'm now SNP and/or Green in pretty much all questions. I *may* vote Labour in 2024 or whenever but I'll need much more to actively support them along the way. Particularly a sign that they understand the real challenges facing the UK and the world and not just the political challenge of staying on the right side of the political/media establishment. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:01 - Aug 10 with 1816 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:52 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
None of this will matter when wealth equality, authoritarianism, Brexit weakening of the UK and climate change destroys us.
If the country had some foresight we’d all vote Green to, ya know, not die.
In all honesty with the public knowledge of Cummings’ plans I’d be amazed if we even have a legit election in 4 years. |
So why not then would left-leaning Labour members just join the Greens, what you say emboldens that point - I think to most on the left the Green issue is the most important one currently, and by joining the Green's they'd be in a party where they'd have an emboldened voice and at the same time would bring the Green's to more prominence as over night they'd grow. One success of the Corbyn era was that Labour grew the largest party membership in Europe (I think?) , surely a high per centage of those would be on the left, and thus overnight you'd have a green party with a more thriving membership and more relevance, and most importantly green policy being debated, discussed, and deciding elections in years to come.
I thin the environment is the area where Brexit legitimately doesnt weaken us mostly to be honest - EU has always been good with environment policy, and I think this particular area is where the EU has proven to have worked well, and that of course makes logical sense - on our own we are pretty insignificant vs climate change, only as part of a block of nations or cooperating with them can we been effective.
I'm not sure what Cummings plans you are alluding to? fill me in | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:04 - Aug 10 with 1808 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:58 - Aug 10 by Darth_Koont |
On a related note, I'm now SNP and/or Green in pretty much all questions. I *may* vote Labour in 2024 or whenever but I'll need much more to actively support them along the way. Particularly a sign that they understand the real challenges facing the UK and the world and not just the political challenge of staying on the right side of the political/media establishment. |
I think I'll really struggle so far on what I've seen of KS. He's a PR man with little conviction IMO. Yet to see anything that makes me say "That's the policy or view point I'd back". It would be great to get the Tories out but what's the point if f'all changes?
I just don't understand how the centre left and centre right sections of Labour expect me to bite my tongue, hold my nose and put an X in Starmer's box when they literally went out their way to help create this authoritarian-sliding mess we have now, whilst still claiming it's the left's fault. You know full well if Starmer gets in they'll say "I told you so" rather than "thanks for putting your differences aside to rid us of this dangerous government" too.
Murdoch cucks everywhere. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:04 - Aug 10 with 1808 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:53 - Aug 10 by Darth_Koont |
Because the Labour Party should be left of centre when it's been reaching centre-right for too long over the years.
My question is why don't the Labour right and its supporters join the LibDems, rather than trying to play with Labour votes and eroding the traditional support? |
I think this is a good question and kinda highlights my point earlier that these coalitions that form our parties in this country are no longer fit for purpose. You have plenty of Lib Dems for example who are to the left of Centrist Labour members/voters, at the same time you have Orange book Lib Dems who are tory-lite.
Break up the parties! | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:07 - Aug 10 with 1797 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:04 - Aug 10 by jaseitfc2015 |
I think this is a good question and kinda highlights my point earlier that these coalitions that form our parties in this country are no longer fit for purpose. You have plenty of Lib Dems for example who are to the left of Centrist Labour members/voters, at the same time you have Orange book Lib Dems who are tory-lite.
Break up the parties! |
Not enough, dismantle central government worldwide. proportionate representation. More votes on issues and less on choosing someone to betray our trust in them having unchallengeable terms in office.
I'd take a bigger proportion of the far right in seats to have a better representation across the board.
We are trapped in a political system over a century old, invented by a load of rich elite white men in a very different world, no longer fit for purpose. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:07 - Aug 10 with 1797 views | gazzer1999 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:49 - Aug 10 by Darth_Koont |
I think the UK definition of "extreme socialist policy'" is way out of whack with objective reality. Corbyn's platform was bog-standard European social democracy.
I'm more worried about how "normal" it is to accept 4.5 million kids in poverty. And rising.
That's extreme ideology in my book. |
I am worried about poverty as well, however my guess is that its always been acceptable to have poverty. As the population rises so will your figure of 4.5 million. However that number was fact checked and should be stated after housing costs have been taken into account, which then raises another problem about the cost of housing. That is the big problem, when you have more owner outright occupiers of houses there is no real way to make money in a bank so they buy another property, usually the first time buyer sort. This in turn pushes up prices and makes it more difficult to get on the ladder.
I obviously came from poverty as we had an outdoor loo and no bathroom, however it seemed normal to me at the time, it just made me more determined to try and better myself without help from the taxpayer. |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:09 - Aug 10 with 1792 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:04 - Aug 10 by jaseitfc2015 |
I think this is a good question and kinda highlights my point earlier that these coalitions that form our parties in this country are no longer fit for purpose. You have plenty of Lib Dems for example who are to the left of Centrist Labour members/voters, at the same time you have Orange book Lib Dems who are tory-lite.
Break up the parties! |
I agree it's another very poor result of our outdated FPTP system.
Instead of political debate being the fabled "marketplace of ideas" it's become some pointless tribal nonsense where leaders too often pretend to be everything to everyone.
Indeed the Tories turning right towards the UKIPpers and Brexiteers and ignoring the centre seems to have given them an identity and policies to get behind. Sh!t hateful ones but politically they've utterly outflanked the centre. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:12 - Aug 10 with 1785 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:01 - Aug 10 by jaseitfc2015 |
So why not then would left-leaning Labour members just join the Greens, what you say emboldens that point - I think to most on the left the Green issue is the most important one currently, and by joining the Green's they'd be in a party where they'd have an emboldened voice and at the same time would bring the Green's to more prominence as over night they'd grow. One success of the Corbyn era was that Labour grew the largest party membership in Europe (I think?) , surely a high per centage of those would be on the left, and thus overnight you'd have a green party with a more thriving membership and more relevance, and most importantly green policy being debated, discussed, and deciding elections in years to come.
I thin the environment is the area where Brexit legitimately doesnt weaken us mostly to be honest - EU has always been good with environment policy, and I think this particular area is where the EU has proven to have worked well, and that of course makes logical sense - on our own we are pretty insignificant vs climate change, only as part of a block of nations or cooperating with them can we been effective.
I'm not sure what Cummings plans you are alluding to? fill me in |
I'm a donating member of the green Party to be fair. Issue is voting for Green in a GE would be a vote for the Tories unless the shift is large and radical.
Not sure where to start with Cummings, but his blogs and talks about what he would do with more power are worrisome. Mostly geared towards authoritarianism and power grabs over democracy. Make the BBC a right wing propaganda vehicle and dismantling civil service are two examples I can name off the top of my head.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/21/dominic-cummings-thinktank-call
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-dominic-cummings-civil-servic | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:13 - Aug 10 with 1785 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:53 - Aug 10 by Darth_Koont |
Because the Labour Party should be left of centre when it's been reaching centre-right for too long over the years.
My question is why don't the Labour right and its supporters join the LibDems, rather than trying to play with Labour votes and eroding the traditional support? |
What is the "traditional support" for Labour nowadays? |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:13 - Aug 10 with 1784 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:07 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
Not enough, dismantle central government worldwide. proportionate representation. More votes on issues and less on choosing someone to betray our trust in them having unchallengeable terms in office.
I'd take a bigger proportion of the far right in seats to have a better representation across the board.
We are trapped in a political system over a century old, invented by a load of rich elite white men in a very different world, no longer fit for purpose. |
the Lib Dem's would've gave us that referendum on PR back in 2011 but they lost their spine and compromised with the Tories to make AV the offering, which was too convoluted to explain/public to understand, and thus electoral reform dismissed for a generation.
It also doesnt help that parties only talk about electoral reform when relevant to them. "cough" lib dems
I'd like to see the house of lords replaced with an elected upper house, where parties submit a list of candidates similar to the european elections. | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:14 - Aug 10 with 1784 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:07 - Aug 10 by gazzer1999 |
I am worried about poverty as well, however my guess is that its always been acceptable to have poverty. As the population rises so will your figure of 4.5 million. However that number was fact checked and should be stated after housing costs have been taken into account, which then raises another problem about the cost of housing. That is the big problem, when you have more owner outright occupiers of houses there is no real way to make money in a bank so they buy another property, usually the first time buyer sort. This in turn pushes up prices and makes it more difficult to get on the ladder.
I obviously came from poverty as we had an outdoor loo and no bathroom, however it seemed normal to me at the time, it just made me more determined to try and better myself without help from the taxpayer. |
Did your parents have a car? | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:16 - Aug 10 with 1778 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:07 - Aug 10 by gazzer1999 |
I am worried about poverty as well, however my guess is that its always been acceptable to have poverty. As the population rises so will your figure of 4.5 million. However that number was fact checked and should be stated after housing costs have been taken into account, which then raises another problem about the cost of housing. That is the big problem, when you have more owner outright occupiers of houses there is no real way to make money in a bank so they buy another property, usually the first time buyer sort. This in turn pushes up prices and makes it more difficult to get on the ladder.
I obviously came from poverty as we had an outdoor loo and no bathroom, however it seemed normal to me at the time, it just made me more determined to try and better myself without help from the taxpayer. |
Acceptable in the UK and the US maybe. It's not acceptable in countries that understand the necessary balance between socialism and capitalism for people's wellbeing and the long-term health of a country.
Accepting people shouldn't have the right to affordable housing and always a roof over their head is also rather extreme.
I love this country and its people but how we let ourselves be governed and our rights and interests subsequently sidelined is unbelievably crap. And then we vote for more of the same again while our political parties are too afraid to rock the boat and/or are too invested in the way things are. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:17 - Aug 10 with 1773 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:13 - Aug 10 by jaseitfc2015 |
the Lib Dem's would've gave us that referendum on PR back in 2011 but they lost their spine and compromised with the Tories to make AV the offering, which was too convoluted to explain/public to understand, and thus electoral reform dismissed for a generation.
It also doesnt help that parties only talk about electoral reform when relevant to them. "cough" lib dems
I'd like to see the house of lords replaced with an elected upper house, where parties submit a list of candidates similar to the european elections. |
Parties should not have any say at all in prospective elected candidates for the Upper House, it should be done in the same way jury service is done.. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:17 - Aug 10 with 1770 views | gazzer1999 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:14 - Aug 10 by Ewan_Oozami |
Did your parents have a car? |
There was about 5 cars in my road growing up hardly anyone had one. Now in todays poverty there seems to be around at least 2 cars per household. I guess its all about priorities even back then. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 17:20]
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