| This Dawn Butler incident 23:36 - Aug 9 with 28752 views | ElderGrizzly |
She edited a video to make it look like she was driving, claimed racial profiling when the fuller video shows the driver to 1, not be her and 2 to be white.
The Police are asking to release their bodycam footage
Original, not ‘flipped’ footage here
And the plea from the Met Police Federation
Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 02:52 - Aug 11 with 5369 views | reusersfreekicks |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:46 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
You’re missing 4+ years of Ullaa getting snippy about Scotland. Despite never having travelled beyond Northampton.
My dog knows more than he does. To his credit, ullaa is the first to admit he doesn’t know what he’s talking about here. |
Nice sentiments. Good personal put down. Must be proud.... |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 07:24 - Aug 11 with 5281 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:44 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
You may well be a decent honest person when it comes to real life but you’re a dangerous idiot when it comes to politics.
You attack the very people who believe in social justice.
What is that all about? |
Could you please point out the inaccuracy in my statement?
Is the Labour Party only a week or so away from the EHRC branding the organisation as being institutionally racist? Was it not just a couple of weeks ago that the Labour Party settled out of court and apologised for lying about their whistleblowers? [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 9:59]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:44 - Aug 11 with 5221 views | giant_stow |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:48 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
Haha. Good one.
You gave us Brexit and Boris. Or someone very like you. |
is that it?!
ok then.
Its weird enough having a nemesis, but especially odd having one who can't see past their own emotions to form a decent argument. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:55 - Aug 11 with 5199 views | GaryCooper |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 02:46 - Aug 11 by reusersfreekicks |
Nope that would be Corbyn who is a lifelong anti EUer, who kept his head down during the referendum so contributing to the results. And the same man who's dismal leadership gave the election to the Tories on a plate. |
Bullseye. |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:07 - Aug 11 with 5147 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 09:44 - Aug 11 by giant_stow |
is that it?!
ok then.
Its weird enough having a nemesis, but especially odd having one who can't see past their own emotions to form a decent argument. |
Wow! You are not even joking. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 11:09 - Aug 11 with 5138 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 07:24 - Aug 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Could you please point out the inaccuracy in my statement?
Is the Labour Party only a week or so away from the EHRC branding the organisation as being institutionally racist? Was it not just a couple of weeks ago that the Labour Party settled out of court and apologised for lying about their whistleblowers? [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 9:59]
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But that's just shoity, low-level politics too.
As you know. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 12:01 - Aug 11 with 5080 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 02:42 - Aug 11 by reusersfreekicks |
That's just not true is it. Which European countries currently have socialist influence in their government? Germany? France? Italy? Spain? etc etc. |
At the moment Spain. But all the rest have had recent socialist governments and coalitions. Even in Germany where the centrists have been in power for ages partly through working with the socialist party and the Greens.
Then you've got all the Nordic countries with Belgium and the Netherlands no strangers to social democrats and socialists in coalitions.
The strength of socialism and social democracy in mainland Europe is unquestioned. And they're not marginalised because of proportional representation and the frequent need to to be involved in coalitions. Their influence is so strong that even centrists like Macron and Merkel are progressive.
The UK sticks out like a sore thumb in lacking that balance and having a centre that's further to the right and certainly isn't progressive. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:31 - Aug 11 with 4958 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:38 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
Don’t be silly. Europe “lives under socialism” or at least with some balance of socialism. The majority of these countries even beat us on productivity.
The UK is getting more like the US everyday. Which suits a powerful minority of people down to the ground. |
Most of Europe lives under social democracies and over the last few decades most European countries have had centre-right governments at different times, which have contributed to their current states.
To call them "socialist" is frankly ridiculous, and also successful European social democracies are a retort to others in this thread that have basically said all that is necessary is left wing politics, when it is not as the success of these European countries - Germany, the Nordics, etc are on in the main is down to left of centre politics, which has had contributions from liberals and conservatives also,, and they most certainly are not left, left, certainly not the "left" that the left wing of the labour party or greens would like to see [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 17:34]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:37 - Aug 11 with 4934 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:31 - Aug 11 by jaseitfc2015 |
Most of Europe lives under social democracies and over the last few decades most European countries have had centre-right governments at different times, which have contributed to their current states.
To call them "socialist" is frankly ridiculous, and also successful European social democracies are a retort to others in this thread that have basically said all that is necessary is left wing politics, when it is not as the success of these European countries - Germany, the Nordics, etc are on in the main is down to left of centre politics, which has had contributions from liberals and conservatives also,, and they most certainly are not left, left, certainly not the "left" that the left wing of the labour party or greens would like to see [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 17:34]
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How do you get left of center without embracing some of the tenets of socialism? And yes, we’re talking socialists and genuine social democrats in these countries.
New Labour didn’t come close to that or close enough to providing balance to the debate. And our slide to the right continues - with all the nonsense that comes with it. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:48 - Aug 11 with 4920 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:37 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
How do you get left of center without embracing some of the tenets of socialism? And yes, we’re talking socialists and genuine social democrats in these countries.
New Labour didn’t come close to that or close enough to providing balance to the debate. And our slide to the right continues - with all the nonsense that comes with it. |
I didnt say you shouldnt embrace elements of socialism, quite the opposite I believe in discussions and gathering the best ideas in order to form the best society we can.
It was put earlier in this thread that there is basically no place for centrism, conservatism, or even the centre-left as they are even seen as "the right" by the far left, and im simply saying that European social democracies prove there is a place for liberal and conservative ideas, and if one is to propose a society with no influence from centre-right, centre, or centre-left parties, and allude they want a left wing utopia, they are indeed pointing to out right socialism, which hasnt been successful anywhere, and are not pointing to social democracy, as social democracy includes conservative and liberal influence.
Thats all | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:04 - Aug 11 with 4886 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:48 - Aug 11 by jaseitfc2015 |
I didnt say you shouldnt embrace elements of socialism, quite the opposite I believe in discussions and gathering the best ideas in order to form the best society we can.
It was put earlier in this thread that there is basically no place for centrism, conservatism, or even the centre-left as they are even seen as "the right" by the far left, and im simply saying that European social democracies prove there is a place for liberal and conservative ideas, and if one is to propose a society with no influence from centre-right, centre, or centre-left parties, and allude they want a left wing utopia, they are indeed pointing to out right socialism, which hasnt been successful anywhere, and are not pointing to social democracy, as social democracy includes conservative and liberal influence.
Thats all |
You don’t honestly believe that the “left” even socialists reject capitalism and liberal ideas out of hand?
This is the problem with UK politics. There’s a view that socialism is stuck in some early-20th century take on the world.
Socialism in the 21st century is more about ensuring a counter-balance to runaway free-market thinking. It’s about ensuring there’s a balance between equality and liberty.
Denying that and demonizing the left has just ensured we’ve got a skewed country with massive social, economic and political inequalities.
It was at the heart of reforming and rebuilding the UK after the war and improving the lives and futures of many millions of UK citizens. Why have we just given up after that?
By 2022 there will be 5.2 million children living in poverty. How many times do I have to repeat that before the penny drops we’re not a great country to live in for far too many people? | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:13 - Aug 11 with 4864 views | giant_stow |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:04 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
You don’t honestly believe that the “left” even socialists reject capitalism and liberal ideas out of hand?
This is the problem with UK politics. There’s a view that socialism is stuck in some early-20th century take on the world.
Socialism in the 21st century is more about ensuring a counter-balance to runaway free-market thinking. It’s about ensuring there’s a balance between equality and liberty.
Denying that and demonizing the left has just ensured we’ve got a skewed country with massive social, economic and political inequalities.
It was at the heart of reforming and rebuilding the UK after the war and improving the lives and futures of many millions of UK citizens. Why have we just given up after that?
By 2022 there will be 5.2 million children living in poverty. How many times do I have to repeat that before the penny drops we’re not a great country to live in for far too many people? |
"How many times do I have to repeat that before the penny drops we’re not a great country to live in for far too many people? "
Maybe people hear you but just disagree? Perhaps (gawd forbid) you're just wrong? | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:16 - Aug 11 with 4857 views | Funge |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:48 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
Haha. Good one.
You gave us Brexit and Boris. Or someone very like you. |
Miles off.
Corbyn was a horror of a leader. Swathes of mining communities across the East Midlands and Northumbria voting Tory? That's with Corbyn, first and foremost. |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:57 - Aug 11 with 4807 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:13 - Aug 11 by giant_stow |
"How many times do I have to repeat that before the penny drops we’re not a great country to live in for far too many people? "
Maybe people hear you but just disagree? Perhaps (gawd forbid) you're just wrong? |
5.2 million kids in poverty would be right?
I think I prefer being wrong. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:03 - Aug 11 with 4799 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:16 - Aug 11 by Funge |
Miles off.
Corbyn was a horror of a leader. Swathes of mining communities across the East Midlands and Northumbria voting Tory? That's with Corbyn, first and foremost. |
That’s with Brexit.
That’s also with a media that enabled Brexit and right-wing ideology while combatting Remain and more left-wing policies.
Corbyn has gone, we’re having the sh1tshow of the government’s response to Covid, negotiating a Brexit deal and showing a complete lack of integrity and competence. And Labour’s still behind. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:37 - Aug 11 with 4764 views | Funge |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:03 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
That’s with Brexit.
That’s also with a media that enabled Brexit and right-wing ideology while combatting Remain and more left-wing policies.
Corbyn has gone, we’re having the sh1tshow of the government’s response to Covid, negotiating a Brexit deal and showing a complete lack of integrity and competence. And Labour’s still behind. |
You're absurdly myopic, as much so as the Brexiters on the other side of the coin. You don't see it, of course.
It's the media! It's the Blairites! It's, er, Ullaa...?!
The issue here, of course, is that regardless of the above factors, Corbyn demonstrated that he was wholly incompetent, and unprepared, for the highest office in the land.
From the cabinet he selected (Diane Abbott is an excellent MP, but ministerial material she was not; along with the vision of McDonnell brandishing Mao's Little Red Book in his budget response; an abiding image), to his inability to take a position, and stick to it, on the biggest political issue affecting this country since Suez, and ending with his utter inability to compete in the most recent election.
If we acknowledge that the media are b@stards, and that factions in his party didnt want him to succeed, and his public persona was that of a flapper - then why the hell didn't a man with Seamus Milne as his head of communications take actual, physical steps to do something about it?
This is without even touching on the anti-Semitism issue - you can have that one out with the birds.
This is a man wit almost 40 years experience of parliament. A man who has defied the party whip more than almost any other MP. A man who should, really, have a pretty thorough knowledge of politics, and the mechanism of b0llocks that powers it. How did he get it so wrong?
I wanted him to succeed - I remember having more than a few jabs at BoJK (formerly of this parish) prior to the second Labour leadership election, due to the supposed sniping at him from the backbenches. He won the second election, settled in, and subsequently proved himself utterly incapable of leadership. My initial judgment of Corbyn was incorrect; I will (sadly) admit this.
He is culpable for the failure of the opposition to hold this government to account.. He is a huge factor in this turd of a government having an 80-seat majority.
The buck should stop with him. | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:16 - Aug 11 with 4699 views | giant_stow |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:57 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
5.2 million kids in poverty would be right?
I think I prefer being wrong. |
new labour reduced child poverty rates didn't they? Corbynite labour missed its chance to fix things. maybe you can afford to be wrong. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 20:17]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:25 - Aug 11 with 4679 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:37 - Aug 11 by Funge |
You're absurdly myopic, as much so as the Brexiters on the other side of the coin. You don't see it, of course.
It's the media! It's the Blairites! It's, er, Ullaa...?!
The issue here, of course, is that regardless of the above factors, Corbyn demonstrated that he was wholly incompetent, and unprepared, for the highest office in the land.
From the cabinet he selected (Diane Abbott is an excellent MP, but ministerial material she was not; along with the vision of McDonnell brandishing Mao's Little Red Book in his budget response; an abiding image), to his inability to take a position, and stick to it, on the biggest political issue affecting this country since Suez, and ending with his utter inability to compete in the most recent election.
If we acknowledge that the media are b@stards, and that factions in his party didnt want him to succeed, and his public persona was that of a flapper - then why the hell didn't a man with Seamus Milne as his head of communications take actual, physical steps to do something about it?
This is without even touching on the anti-Semitism issue - you can have that one out with the birds.
This is a man wit almost 40 years experience of parliament. A man who has defied the party whip more than almost any other MP. A man who should, really, have a pretty thorough knowledge of politics, and the mechanism of b0llocks that powers it. How did he get it so wrong?
I wanted him to succeed - I remember having more than a few jabs at BoJK (formerly of this parish) prior to the second Labour leadership election, due to the supposed sniping at him from the backbenches. He won the second election, settled in, and subsequently proved himself utterly incapable of leadership. My initial judgment of Corbyn was incorrect; I will (sadly) admit this.
He is culpable for the failure of the opposition to hold this government to account.. He is a huge factor in this turd of a government having an 80-seat majority.
The buck should stop with him. |
No, believe me. My issue with Brexit and our awful media is me stepping away to look at it objectively. Brexit was the single biggest issue by far at the last election and our media is the least trusted in the OECD.
And I certainly think you can criticise Corbyn's leadership ability and his belief in taking a back seat role as leader so it was more about party and policy than him.
Whether I still agree with the principle behind that, that was naive when we're talking about the way we assess political leadership in this country, and downright foolhardy when the void started to be filled by smears, misrepresentations and briefings against him by his enemies instead. I hate narratives but he lost the narrative there and could probably have changed that if he'd changed tack.
Nevertheless there was space for policies and that commitment to change came through. It certainly engaged and mobilised voters during the 2017 campaign. That was a non-Brexit election though and there wasn't as much of a window in 2019 due to how the Tory party ensured that agenda dominated.
Clever politics and sloganeering by them, naive from Corbyn and his team. But the same failure became reality even for Swinson who concentrated on fighting on that Brexit point.
Starmer pushed the compromise on Brexit and doubled down on it after the election. FWIW I don't blame him - I still think that was necessary to come back from the binary debate and the cliff face we're now slipping over. But I wonder how the media would have portrayed it if he was in charge? I'm sure it would have been called an adult, real-world response rather than just muddled thinking.
Because that's the problem - you can criticise Corbyn and others for being weak but none of this is happening in a vacuum. It's an utter uphill battle for this type of politics to be taken seriously by our media when in fact it's standard and necessary fare when you look at our neighbours and how they face the challenges of the real world. Not manufactured and self-imposed challenges like Brexit in the performative bubble of UK party politics.
There will be 5.2 million kids in poverty by 2022. I still don't get how that is going to be fought without promoting policies. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:39 - Aug 11 with 4641 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:04 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
You don’t honestly believe that the “left” even socialists reject capitalism and liberal ideas out of hand?
This is the problem with UK politics. There’s a view that socialism is stuck in some early-20th century take on the world.
Socialism in the 21st century is more about ensuring a counter-balance to runaway free-market thinking. It’s about ensuring there’s a balance between equality and liberty.
Denying that and demonizing the left has just ensured we’ve got a skewed country with massive social, economic and political inequalities.
It was at the heart of reforming and rebuilding the UK after the war and improving the lives and futures of many millions of UK citizens. Why have we just given up after that?
By 2022 there will be 5.2 million children living in poverty. How many times do I have to repeat that before the penny drops we’re not a great country to live in for far too many people? |
When someone on the far left says stuff like "burn down the system" & "end capitalism" and rejects anything other than socialism, even rejects centre-left keir starmer/blairite Labour, what else is to be concluded?
Change the strap lines & hollow rhetoric if that's not what you actually want | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:42 - Aug 11 with 4633 views | Herbivore |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:39 - Aug 11 by jaseitfc2015 |
When someone on the far left says stuff like "burn down the system" & "end capitalism" and rejects anything other than socialism, even rejects centre-left keir starmer/blairite Labour, what else is to be concluded?
Change the strap lines & hollow rhetoric if that's not what you actually want |
When someone on the far right says "send them back" and "white lives matter" and "there ain't no black in the Union Jack" is your instinct to reject conservative politics? |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:42 - Aug 11 with 4633 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:04 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
You don’t honestly believe that the “left” even socialists reject capitalism and liberal ideas out of hand?
This is the problem with UK politics. There’s a view that socialism is stuck in some early-20th century take on the world.
Socialism in the 21st century is more about ensuring a counter-balance to runaway free-market thinking. It’s about ensuring there’s a balance between equality and liberty.
Denying that and demonizing the left has just ensured we’ve got a skewed country with massive social, economic and political inequalities.
It was at the heart of reforming and rebuilding the UK after the war and improving the lives and futures of many millions of UK citizens. Why have we just given up after that?
By 2022 there will be 5.2 million children living in poverty. How many times do I have to repeat that before the penny drops we’re not a great country to live in for far too many people? |
Again, you're describing social democracy not socialism.
Social democracy appreciates capitalism
Socialism wants to "burn it down" [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 20:44]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:45 - Aug 11 with 4627 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:16 - Aug 11 by giant_stow |
new labour reduced child poverty rates didn't they? Corbynite labour missed its chance to fix things. maybe you can afford to be wrong. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 20:17]
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I actually find that offensive. You and others missed your chance to actually get behind Labour rather than making up reasons to usher successively worse Tory governments in. And until you give half a sh!t about the challenges facing people around the UK then I'll still keep telling you to own it.
New Labour did reduce the number of children living in poverty but fell well short of reversing it in any meaningful sense. With the economy doing well there was spending on benefits and tax credits but they singularly failed to address the underlying equalities so that child poverty just increased again when the money was turned off. In fact under New Labour overall inequality increased so it was inevitable we were going to stick with the same direction of travel after they left.
That's just one of several reasons that I consider the New Labour governments to be a massive failed opportunity and a poor legacy from 13 years in power. Not least because they've lost way too much political capital as a result. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:47 - Aug 11 with 4621 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:42 - Aug 11 by jaseitfc2015 |
Again, you're describing social democracy not socialism.
Social democracy appreciates capitalism
Socialism wants to "burn it down" [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 20:44]
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Don't be silly.
That's like saying capitalism in 2020 is anti-society. Clearly bobbins. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:49 - Aug 11 with 4617 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:42 - Aug 11 by Herbivore |
When someone on the far right says "send them back" and "white lives matter" and "there ain't no black in the Union Jack" is your instinct to reject conservative politics? |
no because there's a difference between far right & centre right .
Angela Merkel is centre right do you bunch her in with the far right AfD? Your logic here rather stupidly suggests you do | | | |
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