| This Dawn Butler incident 23:36 - Aug 9 with 28754 views | ElderGrizzly |
She edited a video to make it look like she was driving, claimed racial profiling when the fuller video shows the driver to 1, not be her and 2 to be white.
The Police are asking to release their bodycam footage
Original, not ‘flipped’ footage here
And the plea from the Met Police Federation
Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:19 - Aug 10 with 2451 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:17 - Aug 10 by Ewan_Oozami |
Parties should not have any say at all in prospective elected candidates for the Upper House, it should be done in the same way jury service is done.. |
we're back to ancient greece! |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:24 - Aug 10 with 2440 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:13 - Aug 10 by Ewan_Oozami |
What is the "traditional support" for Labour nowadays? |
Good question. All over the place and far too much in a lot of other parties like the SNP, Greens, LibDems and sadly the xenophobic Tories/Brexiteers too.
Hardly surprising when Labour have stopped standing for anything coherent as a party. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:31 - Aug 10 with 2420 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:17 - Aug 10 by gazzer1999 |
There was about 5 cars in my road growing up hardly anyone had one. Now in todays poverty there seems to be around at least 2 cars per household. I guess its all about priorities even back then. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 17:20]
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I come froma simllar background to you then I guess - the taxpayers helped me by:
a: Providing a good standard of comprehensive schooling
b: Providing excellent NHS treatment in the first couple of years of my life when a hare lip and cleft palate meant I had trouble breathing and eating
c: Providing excellent free sports activities when I was older to get me into all sorts of sports
d: I was fortunate to got to University pre-tuition fees
e: My Mum and Dad got unemployment and housing benefit when between jobs
f: Lived in council housing for years before my parents bought a house (on the open market not a council house discount - which was another taxpayer funded benefit thanks to Thatcher)
g: Child benefit
I'm now quite happy to contribute my taxes to help those people who, for whatever reason, don't have the chances that I had - not sure why some people when they escape their less fortunate roots, are happy to pull up the drawbridge and say, I didn't need any help, why should you get it? |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:33 - Aug 10 with 2412 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:24 - Aug 10 by Darth_Koont |
Good question. All over the place and far too much in a lot of other parties like the SNP, Greens, LibDems and sadly the xenophobic Tories/Brexiteers too.
Hardly surprising when Labour have stopped standing for anything coherent as a party. |
To me New Labour is the same love for rampant disaster capitalism via political donation influence with slightly less b*stardry to the average citizen. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:36 - Aug 10 with 2402 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:31 - Aug 10 by Ewan_Oozami |
I come froma simllar background to you then I guess - the taxpayers helped me by:
a: Providing a good standard of comprehensive schooling
b: Providing excellent NHS treatment in the first couple of years of my life when a hare lip and cleft palate meant I had trouble breathing and eating
c: Providing excellent free sports activities when I was older to get me into all sorts of sports
d: I was fortunate to got to University pre-tuition fees
e: My Mum and Dad got unemployment and housing benefit when between jobs
f: Lived in council housing for years before my parents bought a house (on the open market not a council house discount - which was another taxpayer funded benefit thanks to Thatcher)
g: Child benefit
I'm now quite happy to contribute my taxes to help those people who, for whatever reason, don't have the chances that I had - not sure why some people when they escape their less fortunate roots, are happy to pull up the drawbridge and say, I didn't need any help, why should you get it? |
This this this.
According to data I'm in the top 90% of UK earners and I live a fairly modest life. Not sure why this level of basic comfort is a privilege and not a human right. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:45 - Aug 10 with 2376 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:33 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
To me New Labour is the same love for rampant disaster capitalism via political donation influence with slightly less b*stardry to the average citizen. |
New Labour were a waste of political space - if you want the cause of the disillusionment and disenfranchisement that's wreaked havoc on this country's politics over the past decade then it's when a supposedly social democratic party does little to address the structural imbalances in 13 years of government.
It reinforces the hopelessness and lack of alternatives that the SNP and the Brexit movement (albeit in diametrically opposite ways) have exploited by actually proposing solutions. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:46 - Aug 10 with 2372 views | gazzer1999 |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:31 - Aug 10 by Ewan_Oozami |
I come froma simllar background to you then I guess - the taxpayers helped me by:
a: Providing a good standard of comprehensive schooling
b: Providing excellent NHS treatment in the first couple of years of my life when a hare lip and cleft palate meant I had trouble breathing and eating
c: Providing excellent free sports activities when I was older to get me into all sorts of sports
d: I was fortunate to got to University pre-tuition fees
e: My Mum and Dad got unemployment and housing benefit when between jobs
f: Lived in council housing for years before my parents bought a house (on the open market not a council house discount - which was another taxpayer funded benefit thanks to Thatcher)
g: Child benefit
I'm now quite happy to contribute my taxes to help those people who, for whatever reason, don't have the chances that I had - not sure why some people when they escape their less fortunate roots, are happy to pull up the drawbridge and say, I didn't need any help, why should you get it? |
No one is saying I didn't need it so why should you get it. We lived in a rented house which as I say was normal to me. With regards Child benefit you only got it for the second child back then, unlike today whereby it goes for all children, I think we had Thatcher to blame for that one, mind you she did take my delightful warm milk away. I do not and never have agreed to selling off our council houses, however we had 10 years or more of Blair who has failed to stop it. I actually like to think we do still have a great health service, please don't try and do it down.
Is your answer to tax everyone at around 60-70% as that is what we would need to do to live in a utopian world.
Oh and I went to uni late in life and had to pay the fee's. |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:01 - Aug 10 with 2326 views | Ryorry |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:33 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
To me New Labour is the same love for rampant disaster capitalism via political donation influence with slightly less b*stardry to the average citizen. |
Personally I'd still prefer living in a puddle a few inches deep until a relatively dry patch of grass can be worked out, than a cesspit 5 foot deep. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:08 - Aug 10 with 2314 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 17:46 - Aug 10 by gazzer1999 |
No one is saying I didn't need it so why should you get it. We lived in a rented house which as I say was normal to me. With regards Child benefit you only got it for the second child back then, unlike today whereby it goes for all children, I think we had Thatcher to blame for that one, mind you she did take my delightful warm milk away. I do not and never have agreed to selling off our council houses, however we had 10 years or more of Blair who has failed to stop it. I actually like to think we do still have a great health service, please don't try and do it down.
Is your answer to tax everyone at around 60-70% as that is what we would need to do to live in a utopian world.
Oh and I went to uni late in life and had to pay the fee's. |
It's good that you've done well, and kudos to you for that.
But you don't need 70% tax, you don't even need a utopian world, you just need companies to pay their fair share, tax hedge fund profits, stop bleeding off taxpayers money in PFI and cash for cronies (how innocent "cash for questions" seems nowadays), create more affordable housing that can't be sold off (ok, so building companies' profits won't be as high, but never mind), stop trying to introduce markets where they don't exist (middlemen skim off most of the money), none of this has to be extreme left-wing, it's just stopping the rich from creaming off all the money that could actually be put to good social use. For example, Blair introduced Sure Start, which actully produced genuine measurable benefits in reducing child poverty and giving less privileged kids a good start in life, tat was one of the first things to go when austerity started...you don't have to dish out benefits to make good use of taxpayers money... | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:13 - Aug 10 with 2310 views | giant_stow |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:46 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
It’s EVERYONE’S duty to fight the right. It’s not a matter of the left tweaking it enough to appeal to the centre.
Personally I think with all going on it’s about time people picked a side. Truth and humanity, or lies and racism. |
I'm not a fan of how you've framed that choice. I'd put it as we can pick from battling, fragmenting extremes at either end or a sensible coalition of compromise and mutual respect in the middle. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:22 - Aug 10 with 2251 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:13 - Aug 10 by giant_stow |
I'm not a fan of how you've framed that choice. I'd put it as we can pick from battling, fragmenting extremes at either end or a sensible coalition of compromise and mutual respect in the middle. |
Indeed. Despite living here all my life I get the English irony in choosing a side against lies and racism when we are a week or so away from the EHRC branding Labour as being institutionally racist and just a couple of weeks past the Labour Party settled out of court and apologised for lying about their whistleblowers.
You couldn’t make it up.
Edit. And I don’t give a fook if people say I’m trying to turn this thread into a different topic. This thread has gone Completely away from the op already. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 19:28]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:28 - Aug 10 with 2245 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:13 - Aug 10 by giant_stow |
I'm not a fan of how you've framed that choice. I'd put it as we can pick from battling, fragmenting extremes at either end or a sensible coalition of compromise and mutual respect in the middle. |
What has the middle ground achieved in the last decade?
Not a lot.
Go back 20 years and we can add war crimes to the list. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:31 - Aug 10 with 2238 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:22 - Aug 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. Despite living here all my life I get the English irony in choosing a side against lies and racism when we are a week or so away from the EHRC branding Labour as being institutionally racist and just a couple of weeks past the Labour Party settled out of court and apologised for lying about their whistleblowers.
You couldn’t make it up.
Edit. And I don’t give a fook if people say I’m trying to turn this thread into a different topic. This thread has gone Completely away from the op already. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 19:28]
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It was fine when it was the party you were a member of though.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/opinion/the-conservative-party-anti-semitism-c
🤷â€â™‚ï¸ | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:42 - Aug 10 with 2201 views | Ryorry |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:28 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
What has the middle ground achieved in the last decade?
Not a lot.
Go back 20 years and we can add war crimes to the list. |
You're saying that you don't think living in the UK under Blair/Brown (leaving aside the Iraq war) was better than living in the UK under Cameron/May/Johnson? Of course we can work to improve that, but meanwhile ...
You've also never got that the British preference is generally for evolution gradually - most of us have never been fans of revolution. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:44 - Aug 10 with 2192 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:42 - Aug 10 by Ryorry |
You're saying that you don't think living in the UK under Blair/Brown (leaving aside the Iraq war) was better than living in the UK under Cameron/May/Johnson? Of course we can work to improve that, but meanwhile ...
You've also never got that the British preference is generally for evolution gradually - most of us have never been fans of revolution. |
I’ve often said how I was too tribal and closed minded to vote for Blair but his record cannot he denied.
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:45 - Aug 10 with 2187 views | giant_stow |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:28 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
What has the middle ground achieved in the last decade?
Not a lot.
Go back 20 years and we can add war crimes to the list. |
Not a lot since new labour, but its done far less damage than Corbyn's labour who have given us Boris and Brexit. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:48 - Aug 10 with 2177 views | pointofblue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:45 - Aug 10 by giant_stow |
Not a lot since new labour, but its done far less damage than Corbyn's labour who have given us Boris and Brexit. |
Even more ironically the Corbyn era managed to finish off the May ministry which, for all it’s faults, would have been more central than Johnson, resulting in a far bigger step to the right than he was dreading in 2017. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:15 - Aug 10 with 2149 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:45 - Aug 10 by giant_stow |
Not a lot since new labour, but its done far less damage than Corbyn's labour who have given us Boris and Brexit. |
Was it Corbyn that gave us that though? 56% voted for parties other than the Conservative.
The fact there are 3 fairly significant parties that are centre or left of centre while the ground to the right of centre is mopped up by the Conservatives with a little fight from UKIP is more the issue in my opinion. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:16 - Aug 10 with 2146 views | Clapham_Junction |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:45 - Aug 10 by giant_stow |
Not a lot since new labour, but its done far less damage than Corbyn's labour who have given us Boris and Brexit. |
The people who have given us Boris and Brexit are (a) the Conservative Party (b) the newspaper magnates who relentlessly promoted the two, (c) the social media companies that allowed years of lies and misinformation to go unchallenged and (d) the people who voted for them.
If anyone in Labour is to blame, in my opinion it's the MPs who sabotaged the party repeatedly in the build up to the 2017 elections - they probably did enough to tip the balance that allowed May and the DUP to get a majority. |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:30 - Aug 10 with 2118 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:16 - Aug 10 by Clapham_Junction |
The people who have given us Boris and Brexit are (a) the Conservative Party (b) the newspaper magnates who relentlessly promoted the two, (c) the social media companies that allowed years of lies and misinformation to go unchallenged and (d) the people who voted for them.
If anyone in Labour is to blame, in my opinion it's the MPs who sabotaged the party repeatedly in the build up to the 2017 elections - they probably did enough to tip the balance that allowed May and the DUP to get a majority. |
That’s simply not true though is it?
May and the Tories has a near 30 point lead in the polls at the beginning of the election campaign. In a dry run for the election just a week or so later the Tories won landslide in the local council elections. Labour where nowhere near the Tories in winning that election.
What did turn the tide was May’s social care policy in the manifesto. After that was announced the Tory vote collapsed.
If anything, the anti Corbyn Labour MP’s helped get Labour a little nearer by reassuring reluctant Labour voters who were turned off by Corbyn thaT he had no chance of being PM so it was safe to vote Labour and at least have more MP’s on the opposition benches.
As for the “a few more swing votes could have won the election for Labour” mantra! The Tories were a couple of hundred votes from an decent overall majority. Whereas labour were 2500 votes from maybe forming an incredibly ramshackle government with all other parties assuming the only movement in those 2500 votes was to them.p and not to the Lib Dem’s, Greens etc. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 20:36]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:32 - Aug 10 with 2114 views | giant_stow |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:16 - Aug 10 by Clapham_Junction |
The people who have given us Boris and Brexit are (a) the Conservative Party (b) the newspaper magnates who relentlessly promoted the two, (c) the social media companies that allowed years of lies and misinformation to go unchallenged and (d) the people who voted for them.
If anyone in Labour is to blame, in my opinion it's the MPs who sabotaged the party repeatedly in the build up to the 2017 elections - they probably did enough to tip the balance that allowed May and the DUP to get a majority. |
All labour had to do was calmly explain the benefits of staying in Europe on our now ex deal. They just couldn't bring themselves to fight on principle, in solidarity with poorer people around the continent. Instead they allowed a few loud throw back voices to shout about corporate Europe or how state aid rules would never let us do truly socialist things.
It was bonkers and has cost the country dear. Throw in a bizarre political tribal insistence on sticking with corbyn despite all his baggage and lack of appeal to floating voters... Then double down at the last minute by promising to nationalise everything and that was the job completed: Boris and brexit delivered. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 20:34]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:38 - Aug 10 with 2094 views | GlasgowBlue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:32 - Aug 10 by giant_stow |
All labour had to do was calmly explain the benefits of staying in Europe on our now ex deal. They just couldn't bring themselves to fight on principle, in solidarity with poorer people around the continent. Instead they allowed a few loud throw back voices to shout about corporate Europe or how state aid rules would never let us do truly socialist things.
It was bonkers and has cost the country dear. Throw in a bizarre political tribal insistence on sticking with corbyn despite all his baggage and lack of appeal to floating voters... Then double down at the last minute by promising to nationalise everything and that was the job completed: Boris and brexit delivered. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 20:34]
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Corbyn’s biggest achievement was to get former miners in seats like Bolsover, to brave the pissing rain and vote for the part of Maggie Thatcher. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:43 - Aug 10 with 2083 views | tractordownsouth |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:28 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
What has the middle ground achieved in the last decade?
Not a lot.
Go back 20 years and we can add war crimes to the list. |
Making the middle ground synonomous with war crimes is playing the man not the ball. Keir Starmer potentially moving Labour to a more moderate position doesn't mean he'll go charging into Iraq again. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:59 - Aug 10 with 2049 views | Clapham_Junction |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:32 - Aug 10 by giant_stow |
All labour had to do was calmly explain the benefits of staying in Europe on our now ex deal. They just couldn't bring themselves to fight on principle, in solidarity with poorer people around the continent. Instead they allowed a few loud throw back voices to shout about corporate Europe or how state aid rules would never let us do truly socialist things.
It was bonkers and has cost the country dear. Throw in a bizarre political tribal insistence on sticking with corbyn despite all his baggage and lack of appeal to floating voters... Then double down at the last minute by promising to nationalise everything and that was the job completed: Boris and brexit delivered. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 20:34]
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Yes, calmly explaining things has really worked wonders the last few years...
Personally I cannot understand how anyone could be a floating voter in the last couple of elections. Even if you disagreed with the nationalisation plans, actively voting for the alternative was an act of extreme sh1theadedness. I don't understand why these people are being excused from their culpability. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 20:59]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 21:03 - Aug 10 with 2032 views | StNeotsBlue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:52 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
None of this will matter when wealth equality, authoritarianism, Brexit weakening of the UK and climate change destroys us.
If the country had some foresight we’d all vote Green to, ya know, not die.
In all honesty with the public knowledge of Cummings’ plans I’d be amazed if we even have a legit election in 4 years. |
What's wrong with wealth equality? |  | | |
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