| This Dawn Butler incident 23:36 - Aug 9 with 28755 views | ElderGrizzly |
She edited a video to make it look like she was driving, claimed racial profiling when the fuller video shows the driver to 1, not be her and 2 to be white.
The Police are asking to release their bodycam footage
Original, not ‘flipped’ footage here
And the plea from the Met Police Federation
Racism is a huge problem, but appearing to engineer an issue is worse
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 21:25 - Aug 10 with 6230 views | monytowbray |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 21:03 - Aug 10 by StNeotsBlue |
What's wrong with wealth equality? |
*inequality. Good late spot on a brain fart from me! |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 21:58 - Aug 10 with 6173 views | reusersfreekicks |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 16:53 - Aug 10 by Darth_Koont |
Because the Labour Party should be left of centre when it's been reaching centre-right for too long over the years.
My question is why don't the Labour right and its supporters join the LibDems, rather than trying to play with Labour votes and eroding the traditional support? |
The traditional support in the red wall constituencies? I think you try to suit outcomes to your ideology but it really doesn't hold up. When has a left wing labour government ever been elected in this country? All the people who benefitted from sure start, tax credits, massive investment in health care would have got nothing if the left had been in charge. You have to compromise and do sometimes distasteful things to win elections and help people a bit. Ideological students and metropolitan intellectuals are not the core group to be satisfied |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 22:44 - Aug 10 with 6116 views | tractordownsouth |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:16 - Aug 10 by Clapham_Junction |
The people who have given us Boris and Brexit are (a) the Conservative Party (b) the newspaper magnates who relentlessly promoted the two, (c) the social media companies that allowed years of lies and misinformation to go unchallenged and (d) the people who voted for them.
If anyone in Labour is to blame, in my opinion it's the MPs who sabotaged the party repeatedly in the build up to the 2017 elections - they probably did enough to tip the balance that allowed May and the DUP to get a majority. |
This sabotage conspiracy theory is illogical. The only reason there was a snap election in 2017 was due to the Tories having a 20 point lead in April. So even if you believe that Labour were polling so badly because of the disunity and leadership challenge, without the bad polling there would have been no early election. So either way, no Labour government in 2017. Also worth remembering we were still 55 seats behind the Tories after their worst campaign in years, no amount of ‘sabotage’ could have turned a victory into a 55 seat defeat.
Denial doesn’t get us anywhere - failings on all sides have to be acknowledged, else we can’t move forward. And I include the Brexit policy (which I advocated at the time) among those things that lost us votes alongside Corbyn and anti-semitism.
Also worth pointing out that the Idea that we were 2227 votes away from government theory would involve a scenario where Corbyn would have had a majority of 1, including the Lib Dems who had consistently ruled out working with him. And conversely, Theresa May was less than 1000 votes from winning an overall majority. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 22:47]
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 23:05 - Aug 10 with 6094 views | Clapham_Junction |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 22:44 - Aug 10 by tractordownsouth |
This sabotage conspiracy theory is illogical. The only reason there was a snap election in 2017 was due to the Tories having a 20 point lead in April. So even if you believe that Labour were polling so badly because of the disunity and leadership challenge, without the bad polling there would have been no early election. So either way, no Labour government in 2017. Also worth remembering we were still 55 seats behind the Tories after their worst campaign in years, no amount of ‘sabotage’ could have turned a victory into a 55 seat defeat.
Denial doesn’t get us anywhere - failings on all sides have to be acknowledged, else we can’t move forward. And I include the Brexit policy (which I advocated at the time) among those things that lost us votes alongside Corbyn and anti-semitism.
Also worth pointing out that the Idea that we were 2227 votes away from government theory would involve a scenario where Corbyn would have had a majority of 1, including the Lib Dems who had consistently ruled out working with him. And conversely, Theresa May was less than 1000 votes from winning an overall majority. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 22:47]
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I agree there wouldn't have been an election if Labour hadn't been so far behind. However, my issue is that their negativity continued throughout the campaign. Jess Philips moans about being a target of Corbynistas, but a friend who is a long-standing 'traditional' Labour member and did doorstep campaigning in that election was absolutely scathing about the damage he thought she'd done.
As much as the Lib Dems didn't like Corbyn, even with my very low opinion of them, I doubt they'd have enabled another Tory government in 2017 (I suspect the only way they'd have done that would have been by forcing May to backtrack on Brexit or agree to a second vote, neither of which seem likely). Although we're not used to it here, it's not entirely uncommon for multi-party coalition governments to have wafer thin majorities, or to form minority governments on the basis that a kingmaker party is even more opposed to the alternative. |  | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 23:21 - Aug 10 with 6070 views | pointofblue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:30 - Aug 10 by GlasgowBlue |
That’s simply not true though is it?
May and the Tories has a near 30 point lead in the polls at the beginning of the election campaign. In a dry run for the election just a week or so later the Tories won landslide in the local council elections. Labour where nowhere near the Tories in winning that election.
What did turn the tide was May’s social care policy in the manifesto. After that was announced the Tory vote collapsed.
If anything, the anti Corbyn Labour MP’s helped get Labour a little nearer by reassuring reluctant Labour voters who were turned off by Corbyn thaT he had no chance of being PM so it was safe to vote Labour and at least have more MP’s on the opposition benches.
As for the “a few more swing votes could have won the election for Labour” mantra! The Tories were a couple of hundred votes from an decent overall majority. Whereas labour were 2500 votes from maybe forming an incredibly ramshackle government with all other parties assuming the only movement in those 2500 votes was to them.p and not to the Lib Dem’s, Greens etc. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 20:36]
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Just to point out the Conservative vote did not collapse in 2017 - at the time the General Election was called the Tories were polling in the mid 40s and on Election Day they pulled in 43.5% of the vote. The difference was the increase of the Labour vote, from 25% at the time the election was called to 41% on Election Day. In comparison Labour failed to pull back the deficit in the polls in 2015 - again the Conservatives ended up in the mid-40s but Labour we’re down on 32.1% |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:17 - Aug 11 with 6023 views | jaseitfc2015 |
I always find it hilarious that the biggest advocates for total socialism / bringing down the capitalist system in Britain are usually upper/middle class, & have never lived under socialism, yet people I've known over the years be it from Eastern Europe or South America who have had direct contact with socialism absolutely hate it. | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:38 - Aug 11 with 5996 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:17 - Aug 11 by jaseitfc2015 |
I always find it hilarious that the biggest advocates for total socialism / bringing down the capitalist system in Britain are usually upper/middle class, & have never lived under socialism, yet people I've known over the years be it from Eastern Europe or South America who have had direct contact with socialism absolutely hate it. |
Don’t be silly. Europe “lives under socialism” or at least with some balance of socialism. The majority of these countries even beat us on productivity.
The UK is getting more like the US everyday. Which suits a powerful minority of people down to the ground. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:44 - Aug 11 with 5988 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:22 - Aug 10 by GlasgowBlue |
Indeed. Despite living here all my life I get the English irony in choosing a side against lies and racism when we are a week or so away from the EHRC branding Labour as being institutionally racist and just a couple of weeks past the Labour Party settled out of court and apologised for lying about their whistleblowers.
You couldn’t make it up.
Edit. And I don’t give a fook if people say I’m trying to turn this thread into a different topic. This thread has gone Completely away from the op already. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 19:28]
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You may well be a decent honest person when it comes to real life but you’re a dangerous idiot when it comes to politics.
You attack the very people who believe in social justice.
What is that all about? | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:48 - Aug 11 with 5975 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:45 - Aug 10 by giant_stow |
Not a lot since new labour, but its done far less damage than Corbyn's labour who have given us Boris and Brexit. |
Haha. Good one.
You gave us Brexit and Boris. Or someone very like you. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:52 - Aug 11 with 5968 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 19:28 - Aug 10 by monytowbray |
What has the middle ground achieved in the last decade?
Not a lot.
Go back 20 years and we can add war crimes to the list. |
Indeed. The fabled middle ground is as real as the sunlit uplands. And just as annoyingly smug. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:57 - Aug 11 with 5964 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 20:16 - Aug 10 by Clapham_Junction |
The people who have given us Boris and Brexit are (a) the Conservative Party (b) the newspaper magnates who relentlessly promoted the two, (c) the social media companies that allowed years of lies and misinformation to go unchallenged and (d) the people who voted for them.
If anyone in Labour is to blame, in my opinion it's the MPs who sabotaged the party repeatedly in the build up to the 2017 elections - they probably did enough to tip the balance that allowed May and the DUP to get a majority. |
Well said.
Nothing to add to that. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:02 - Aug 11 with 5953 views | reusersfreekicks |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:38 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
Don’t be silly. Europe “lives under socialism” or at least with some balance of socialism. The majority of these countries even beat us on productivity.
The UK is getting more like the US everyday. Which suits a powerful minority of people down to the ground. |
Which country in Europe has a socialist government? | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:03 - Aug 11 with 5952 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 22:44 - Aug 10 by tractordownsouth |
This sabotage conspiracy theory is illogical. The only reason there was a snap election in 2017 was due to the Tories having a 20 point lead in April. So even if you believe that Labour were polling so badly because of the disunity and leadership challenge, without the bad polling there would have been no early election. So either way, no Labour government in 2017. Also worth remembering we were still 55 seats behind the Tories after their worst campaign in years, no amount of ‘sabotage’ could have turned a victory into a 55 seat defeat.
Denial doesn’t get us anywhere - failings on all sides have to be acknowledged, else we can’t move forward. And I include the Brexit policy (which I advocated at the time) among those things that lost us votes alongside Corbyn and anti-semitism.
Also worth pointing out that the Idea that we were 2227 votes away from government theory would involve a scenario where Corbyn would have had a majority of 1, including the Lib Dems who had consistently ruled out working with him. And conversely, Theresa May was less than 1000 votes from winning an overall majority. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 22:47]
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Let’s not move forward.
Let’s get “forensic” about all the shady sh!t that’s been going on.
I hope for the sake of our future democracy that the Labour Party has to rebuild itself from the ground up. And leaving very little of the top. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:11 - Aug 11 with 5938 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:02 - Aug 11 by reusersfreekicks |
Which country in Europe has a socialist government? |
Socialism and social democracy are a feature of most European countries and their political systems. And many governments and coalitions.
We haven’t had a centre-left government in 40-odd years. And barely a centre-left opposition during that time. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:24 - Aug 11 with 5922 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 18:13 - Aug 10 by giant_stow |
I'm not a fan of how you've framed that choice. I'd put it as we can pick from battling, fragmenting extremes at either end or a sensible coalition of compromise and mutual respect in the middle. |
Rather than trying to mediate the discussion based on what you think are norms, why don’t you look around the world and see what is the best objective choices?
It’s a good project and a better use of your time than being strangely wrong here. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:37 - Aug 11 with 5908 views | NewcyBlue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:24 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
Rather than trying to mediate the discussion based on what you think are norms, why don’t you look around the world and see what is the best objective choices?
It’s a good project and a better use of your time than being strangely wrong here. |
Isn’t this where politics is an opinion, whilst you make think Ulla is wrong, he obviously doesn’t. Although Ulla is one of the ones that will change his mind and isn’t so entrenched in his own opinion being correct that he will actually look at stuff.
You’re far too snippy with him in my opinion.
Talking politics on here seems to be a waste of energy lately.
I’d much rather tell you about how I want the North or England to be in an independent Scotland. It would certainly be better for Northumberland and Tyneside. We can leave Wearside in their Brexit paradise as far as I am concerned.
Obviously Newcastle becomes the new Capital for this new state, it just does. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:40 - Aug 11 with 5904 views | jeera |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:37 - Aug 11 by NewcyBlue |
Isn’t this where politics is an opinion, whilst you make think Ulla is wrong, he obviously doesn’t. Although Ulla is one of the ones that will change his mind and isn’t so entrenched in his own opinion being correct that he will actually look at stuff.
You’re far too snippy with him in my opinion.
Talking politics on here seems to be a waste of energy lately.
I’d much rather tell you about how I want the North or England to be in an independent Scotland. It would certainly be better for Northumberland and Tyneside. We can leave Wearside in their Brexit paradise as far as I am concerned.
Obviously Newcastle becomes the new Capital for this new state, it just does. |
You could export stotties. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:43 - Aug 11 with 5903 views | NewcyBlue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:40 - Aug 11 by jeera |
You could export stotties. |
Bread products in Suffolk just aren’t as good as Tyneside. You’ll get over it mate.
Wait until you hear about Lorne sausage north of the border! | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:46 - Aug 11 with 5901 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:37 - Aug 11 by NewcyBlue |
Isn’t this where politics is an opinion, whilst you make think Ulla is wrong, he obviously doesn’t. Although Ulla is one of the ones that will change his mind and isn’t so entrenched in his own opinion being correct that he will actually look at stuff.
You’re far too snippy with him in my opinion.
Talking politics on here seems to be a waste of energy lately.
I’d much rather tell you about how I want the North or England to be in an independent Scotland. It would certainly be better for Northumberland and Tyneside. We can leave Wearside in their Brexit paradise as far as I am concerned.
Obviously Newcastle becomes the new Capital for this new state, it just does. |
You’re missing 4+ years of Ullaa getting snippy about Scotland. Despite never having travelled beyond Northampton.
My dog knows more than he does. To his credit, ullaa is the first to admit he doesn’t know what he’s talking about here. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:50 - Aug 11 with 5896 views | Darth_Koont |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:37 - Aug 11 by NewcyBlue |
Isn’t this where politics is an opinion, whilst you make think Ulla is wrong, he obviously doesn’t. Although Ulla is one of the ones that will change his mind and isn’t so entrenched in his own opinion being correct that he will actually look at stuff.
You’re far too snippy with him in my opinion.
Talking politics on here seems to be a waste of energy lately.
I’d much rather tell you about how I want the North or England to be in an independent Scotland. It would certainly be better for Northumberland and Tyneside. We can leave Wearside in their Brexit paradise as far as I am concerned.
Obviously Newcastle becomes the new Capital for this new state, it just does. |
You know you’re more than welcome.
But Newcastle has more chance of being the Las Vegas of North Britain than the capital. or if the worst comes to the worst a rainy Tijuana. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:50 - Aug 11 with 5896 views | jeera |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:43 - Aug 11 by NewcyBlue |
Bread products in Suffolk just aren’t as good as Tyneside. You’ll get over it mate.
Wait until you hear about Lorne sausage north of the border! |
I've enough atm with Darth there trying to get me to try haggis.
I've only eaten black pudding once and that was only because I felt I should at least try it before dismissing it out of hand. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:51 - Aug 11 with 5891 views | NewcyBlue |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:46 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
You’re missing 4+ years of Ullaa getting snippy about Scotland. Despite never having travelled beyond Northampton.
My dog knows more than he does. To his credit, ullaa is the first to admit he doesn’t know what he’s talking about here. |
It’s a very English thing to have some bitterness towards Scotland. It probably comes from the perceived differences in public spending and the Barnett formula.
Ulla is genuinely a good guy though, and when he doesn’t really know he holds his hands up. Which is a lot more than can be said for most of us. I respect that. | |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 02:30 - Aug 11 with 5863 views | Ryorry |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:03 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
Let’s not move forward.
Let’s get “forensic” about all the shady sh!t that’s been going on.
I hope for the sake of our future democracy that the Labour Party has to rebuild itself from the ground up. And leaving very little of the top. |
"I hope for the sake of our future democracy that the Labour Party has to rebuild itself from the ground up."
Well there's something we can agree on. I've been saying for years that the LP came into being in the late 19th/first half of 20thC because that's what was needed then, but as the world has since clearly moved on, it needs a thorough re-vamp to be fit for purpose for the 21stC.
Same could probably said for the Whories of course, maybe for the LibDems too. |  |
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| This Dawn Butler incident on 02:42 - Aug 11 with 5853 views | reusersfreekicks |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 01:11 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
Socialism and social democracy are a feature of most European countries and their political systems. And many governments and coalitions.
We haven’t had a centre-left government in 40-odd years. And barely a centre-left opposition during that time. |
That's just not true is it. Which European countries currently have socialist influence in their government? Germany? France? Italy? Spain? etc etc. | | | |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 02:46 - Aug 11 with 5850 views | reusersfreekicks |
| This Dawn Butler incident on 00:48 - Aug 11 by Darth_Koont |
Haha. Good one.
You gave us Brexit and Boris. Or someone very like you. |
Nope that would be Corbyn who is a lifelong anti EUer, who kept his head down during the referendum so contributing to the results. And the same man who's dismal leadership gave the election to the Tories on a plate. | | | |
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