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Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 07:36 - Aug 15 by Libero
“...and people say she’s just a big pair of tits”
Just watched through the whole UK Office again.
Still brilliant, still really claustrophobic, Brent is still a chopper.
The only bit that feels a bit off when viewed through a 2020 lens is the amount of gay jokes - just reflecting on the thread here wondering if it could get made today.
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 08:59 - Aug 15 by Dubtractor
Just watched through the whole UK Office again.
Still brilliant, still really claustrophobic, Brent is still a chopper.
The only bit that feels a bit off when viewed through a 2020 lens is the amount of gay jokes - just reflecting on the thread here wondering if it could get made today.
And with a click of the fingers we are back to cancel culture...although the best bit of recent comment on Ricky Gervais that I have seen is last year's Frankie Boyle show where our hero reflects on the Gervais ability to do stand up.
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 08:59 - Aug 15 by Dubtractor
Just watched through the whole UK Office again.
Still brilliant, still really claustrophobic, Brent is still a chopper.
The only bit that feels a bit off when viewed through a 2020 lens is the amount of gay jokes - just reflecting on the thread here wondering if it could get made today.
It’s all about separating the subject of the joke from the target, I’d say that in the vast majority of cases when someone makes a comment in the show like you‘re highlighting, the target of the joke is the character’s immaturity or ignorance, not gay people.
“Sounds gay?” “It’s not gay!”
Also see, Keith Chegwin in Extras...
[Post edited 15 Aug 2020 9:29]
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Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 09:35 - Aug 15 with 2921 views
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 09:13 - Aug 15 by WeWereZombies
And with a click of the fingers we are back to cancel culture...although the best bit of recent comment on Ricky Gervais that I have seen is last year's Frankie Boyle show where our hero reflects on the Gervais ability to do stand up.
Is it? I really don’t see a relation to this and “cancel culture” I think people (in general)) are misunderstanding the difference between justifiably and reasonably challenging something and the kind of toxic behaviour that’s associated with “cancel culture” Dub’s question is a valid question, I just think there are justifications which even through a modern gaze would validate the jokes inclusion.
I think a more pertinent example would be The Simpson’s addressing of “the problem with Apu” and the subsequent fall out. Much more complex, not particularly clear cut, but plenty of people exhibiting “cancel culture” like behaviour on the subject, instead of reasonable and rational debate.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2020 9:44]
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Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 09:58 - Aug 15 with 2885 views
I'm not a massive fan of her music, although I appreciate how important it is. But up until about 3 years ago or so I dismissed her quite a bit.
A bit of research shows she's incredibly astute, has a real desire to help lift people out of poverty in her native state and has done some real good.
There is a whole podcast series on her by the NPR lot that do Radiolab and I heard the taster episode and it was pretty good too. Might be worth checking out for anyone interested.
As for Cave, he is a mad old pretentious genius who wrote some of the best (love) songs I can think of. His letter to a fan asking about his dead son is well worth a read. I don't remember your post, but I'm assuming it was about his fan questions comments being reported?
I quite admire his openness that lyrics he wrote in 70s and 80s maybe even the 90s are un-PC now and even offensive but he feels he has a duty not to change or edit them because they are his songs and his problem. A lot of artists would shy away or double and defend using words like that.
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 09:58 - Aug 15 by Mullet
I'm not a massive fan of her music, although I appreciate how important it is. But up until about 3 years ago or so I dismissed her quite a bit.
A bit of research shows she's incredibly astute, has a real desire to help lift people out of poverty in her native state and has done some real good.
There is a whole podcast series on her by the NPR lot that do Radiolab and I heard the taster episode and it was pretty good too. Might be worth checking out for anyone interested.
As for Cave, he is a mad old pretentious genius who wrote some of the best (love) songs I can think of. His letter to a fan asking about his dead son is well worth a read. I don't remember your post, but I'm assuming it was about his fan questions comments being reported?
I quite admire his openness that lyrics he wrote in 70s and 80s maybe even the 90s are un-PC now and even offensive but he feels he has a duty not to change or edit them because they are his songs and his problem. A lot of artists would shy away or double and defend using words like that.
Maybe I am being unfair and Hampstead Blue has been his fan boy from day one and to be honest I have been meaning to investigate why I 'don't get' Nick Cave for yonks.
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Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 10:05 - Aug 15 with 2866 views
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 09:35 - Aug 15 by Libero
Is it? I really don’t see a relation to this and “cancel culture” I think people (in general)) are misunderstanding the difference between justifiably and reasonably challenging something and the kind of toxic behaviour that’s associated with “cancel culture” Dub’s question is a valid question, I just think there are justifications which even through a modern gaze would validate the jokes inclusion.
I think a more pertinent example would be The Simpson’s addressing of “the problem with Apu” and the subsequent fall out. Much more complex, not particularly clear cut, but plenty of people exhibiting “cancel culture” like behaviour on the subject, instead of reasonable and rational debate.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2020 9:44]
There is the idea and the spirit of a joke, then there is the ability to deliver it and finally there is the reception of a joke (and I suspect that Frankie Boyle is supremely confident about the first two but agonises about all the times when what he sees as obviously good intentioned send-ups causing more offence than even he could imagine.)
David Brent is, in essence, a tragic character but I have seen many instances (online and in real life) of people just seeing the character's funny side and even portraying themselves as that type of manager because they think it is chummy. As Boyle says, Gervais is excellent when he writes and performs this type of character but even then too many people misunderstand the act.
Apu differs in being a cartoon character rather than live action and you would hope that people understood that we was not real. For years we went along with all his strengths and weaknesses because we knew a shopkeeper who had those too but other facets as well, the shopkeepers we knew were not cartoon characters. The same goes for Cookie Kwan. Sadly there are people who seem to be unable to differentiate between cartoons and reality, in a way The Simpsons have tackled this with the Itchy and Scratchy parody of Tom and Jerry (and Marge's distaste) as well as frequently outing Crusty the Clown as not such a jolly fellow.
I worry that a necessary statement that the characterisation of Apu reinforces racist stereotypes also blocks off the path that enables those, children especially, who are subject to deeply racist backgrounds to make the first steps away from bad culture.
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 10:05 - Aug 15 by WeWereZombies
There is the idea and the spirit of a joke, then there is the ability to deliver it and finally there is the reception of a joke (and I suspect that Frankie Boyle is supremely confident about the first two but agonises about all the times when what he sees as obviously good intentioned send-ups causing more offence than even he could imagine.)
David Brent is, in essence, a tragic character but I have seen many instances (online and in real life) of people just seeing the character's funny side and even portraying themselves as that type of manager because they think it is chummy. As Boyle says, Gervais is excellent when he writes and performs this type of character but even then too many people misunderstand the act.
Apu differs in being a cartoon character rather than live action and you would hope that people understood that we was not real. For years we went along with all his strengths and weaknesses because we knew a shopkeeper who had those too but other facets as well, the shopkeepers we knew were not cartoon characters. The same goes for Cookie Kwan. Sadly there are people who seem to be unable to differentiate between cartoons and reality, in a way The Simpsons have tackled this with the Itchy and Scratchy parody of Tom and Jerry (and Marge's distaste) as well as frequently outing Crusty the Clown as not such a jolly fellow.
I worry that a necessary statement that the characterisation of Apu reinforces racist stereotypes also blocks off the path that enables those, children especially, who are subject to deeply racist backgrounds to make the first steps away from bad culture.
All absolutely fair points. I forgot to mention earlier that I really enjoyed the specific Boyle piece you mentioned, both challenging and amusing!
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Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 10:25 - Aug 15 with 2841 views
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 08:59 - Aug 15 by Dubtractor
Just watched through the whole UK Office again.
Still brilliant, still really claustrophobic, Brent is still a chopper.
The only bit that feels a bit off when viewed through a 2020 lens is the amount of gay jokes - just reflecting on the thread here wondering if it could get made today.
Gervais stated in an interview which I quoted here that The Office would never get made today.
I'd imagine he'd be hounded by hoards of internet crowds if he used much of the Office gags in stand-up. They would have him cancelled in a heartbeat.
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 10:25 - Aug 15 by hampstead_blue
Gervais stated in an interview which I quoted here that The Office would never get made today.
I'd imagine he'd be hounded by hoards of internet crowds if he used much of the Office gags in stand-up. They would have him cancelled in a heartbeat.
Yeahhhh...
You took this line before, then got mega offended when I directed a joke from the Office at you, reporting abuse and having the joke in question removed. So, I guess you kind of proved your point? Sort of?
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 11:17 - Aug 15 by Libero
It’s an empty statement, isn’t it? Meaningless dogwhistling and whatabouttery.
It would hold more water if Gervais wasn’t still producing content with similar themes and values today, but he is, so...
[Post edited 15 Aug 2020 11:27]
I was thinking more of the 'moving on' angle. The English series, and then the American series, lampooned a type of lackadaisical set of attitudes to social interaction that was prevalent at the time. For some it was absorbed and aided a degree of self-correction and for others (as I suggested earlier in this thread) it formed a self-identifying type of affirmation and they carried on regardless. And there was probably a third sector who just felt 'meh' because they had low expectations of their fellow human beings / had been noticing what Gervais highlighted for years / were too busy doing actual work. And a fourth group of people who never watched 'The Office'.
So if you set out to make a similar series today you would take those first two groups into account and include more working from home, you would probably have protagonists squabbling over whether Black Lives Matter or All Lives Matter, issues around how people gender identify and which toilet they can use etc. It could be just as visceral and uncomfortable to watch but it would cover different ground.
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 10:25 - Aug 15 by hampstead_blue
Gervais stated in an interview which I quoted here that The Office would never get made today.
I'd imagine he'd be hounded by hoards of internet crowds if he used much of the Office gags in stand-up. They would have him cancelled in a heartbeat.
That is the thread I was referring too. You were wrong then, and still are now.
Literally the only bit of it that made me even vaguely uncomfortable was the amount of gay gags. Every single other potentially offensive bit was fine in the context of the show or the characters in question.
Easily offended right wing types calling other people snowflakes is one of the most odd things about the last few years.
I was born underwater, I dried out in the sun.
I started humping volcanoes baby, when I was too young.
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 09:35 - Aug 15 by Libero
Is it? I really don’t see a relation to this and “cancel culture” I think people (in general)) are misunderstanding the difference between justifiably and reasonably challenging something and the kind of toxic behaviour that’s associated with “cancel culture” Dub’s question is a valid question, I just think there are justifications which even through a modern gaze would validate the jokes inclusion.
I think a more pertinent example would be The Simpson’s addressing of “the problem with Apu” and the subsequent fall out. Much more complex, not particularly clear cut, but plenty of people exhibiting “cancel culture” like behaviour on the subject, instead of reasonable and rational debate.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2020 9:44]
This is a good take on "perceived" cancel culture and always lamented by those who have a PAID platform:
The most astonishing thing about the last few years is that, with Trump in the White House, Johnson & Cummings in Downing Street & the most xenophobic Brexit possible on the way, supporters of all four *still* see themselves as victims. It's not political, it's psychological.
Real "cancel culture" is the stuff exposed by Ronson in "So you've been publicly shamed?" and it almost never applies to right-wing or centrist politicians and pundits who literally have the backing of the establishment they serve/which serves them.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 13:42 - Aug 15 with 2654 views
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 11:16 - Aug 15 by Libero
Yeahhhh...
You took this line before, then got mega offended when I directed a joke from the Office at you, reporting abuse and having the joke in question removed. So, I guess you kind of proved your point? Sort of?
The offence was that you called me a 'Walt". That in my world is highly offensive and simply accuses a person of creating their own armed forces service.
It's also called 'Stolen Valour' in the US and is a criminal offence. You probably thought it a fair joke but unwittingly crossed a line hence my reporting it.
It is highly offensive to have someone call you a Walt. Phil has agreed in the past to remove posts like that.
"My" line from the Office was never stated. I was simply quoting Gervais.
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 13:42 - Aug 15 by hampstead_blue
The offence was that you called me a 'Walt". That in my world is highly offensive and simply accuses a person of creating their own armed forces service.
It's also called 'Stolen Valour' in the US and is a criminal offence. You probably thought it a fair joke but unwittingly crossed a line hence my reporting it.
It is highly offensive to have someone call you a Walt. Phil has agreed in the past to remove posts like that.
"My" line from the Office was never stated. I was simply quoting Gervais.
I quoted the Office at you, none of the quotes involved the word “Walt” I’ve never heard of the term and have no knowledge of it’s meaning.
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re mistaking me for another poster, instead of just making sh1t up.
Point still stands, as others have also highlighted to you.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2020 15:00]
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Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 16:16 - Aug 15 with 2568 views
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 13:42 - Aug 15 by hampstead_blue
The offence was that you called me a 'Walt". That in my world is highly offensive and simply accuses a person of creating their own armed forces service.
It's also called 'Stolen Valour' in the US and is a criminal offence. You probably thought it a fair joke but unwittingly crossed a line hence my reporting it.
It is highly offensive to have someone call you a Walt. Phil has agreed in the past to remove posts like that.
"My" line from the Office was never stated. I was simply quoting Gervais.
I think Walt comments were made by other users, not Libero.
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Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 17:43 - Aug 15 with 2511 views
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 16:16 - Aug 15 by PhilTWTD
I think Walt comments were made by other users, not Libero.
He didn't directly state it but the implication with posts about Gareth from the Office was about as clear as it could have been.
All done and dusted now.
Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 18:10 - Aug 15 by hampstead_blue
He didn't directly state it but the implication with posts about Gareth from the Office was about as clear as it could have been.
All done and dusted now.
I was just taking the p1ss out of you’re ignorance using quotes from the very show you were championing, claiming there was some kind of subtext that wasn’t there is outstanding mental gymnastics.
You’re so thin skinned and fragile for a man that booms on about freedom of speech/cancel culture/etc.
Edit: this is also a back track from your initial claim where you claim I called you this name. It’s been confirmed by the site owner that, that just isn’t true, yet instead of just accepting this and moving on you’re trying to contort a subtext that just wasn’t there. I posted multiple quotes, clips and memes from various characters from the show, you’ve just decided to disingenuously zero in on Gareth Keenan to fit your fictitious narrative.
Yes, I think you’re unbelievably ignorant and bigoted, but I couldn’t care less about your military service. It only crosses my mind when you post violent and unpleasant things that are widely considered as concerning, which I don’t believe you did in that thread.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2020 19:20]
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Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 20:34 - Aug 15 with 2422 views
Well I thought that as Nick Cave got a name check in the title I should at least post one of his songs, Camille O'Sullivan sang this one on 'Loose Ends' earlier but I can't find a decent version without adverts on YouTube, there is, however, this:
Yesterday I was pro-Nick Cave, today it can only be Dolly Parton on 18:42 - Aug 15 by Libero
I was just taking the p1ss out of you’re ignorance using quotes from the very show you were championing, claiming there was some kind of subtext that wasn’t there is outstanding mental gymnastics.
You’re so thin skinned and fragile for a man that booms on about freedom of speech/cancel culture/etc.
Edit: this is also a back track from your initial claim where you claim I called you this name. It’s been confirmed by the site owner that, that just isn’t true, yet instead of just accepting this and moving on you’re trying to contort a subtext that just wasn’t there. I posted multiple quotes, clips and memes from various characters from the show, you’ve just decided to disingenuously zero in on Gareth Keenan to fit your fictitious narrative.
Yes, I think you’re unbelievably ignorant and bigoted, but I couldn’t care less about your military service. It only crosses my mind when you post violent and unpleasant things that are widely considered as concerning, which I don’t believe you did in that thread.
[Post edited 15 Aug 2020 19:20]
Reverting to just ignoring the subject and hoping it will go away, hey Hampster?
Makes sense, that worked out really well for you when you were challenged on using language derogatory to the disabled....
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