| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? 14:27 - Sep 1 with 5837 views | BrixtonBlue |
Because let's be honest, Lambert isn't the main problem. Manager after manager has struggled to get a decent tune, let alone any success, out of the sh!tshow he's been left by the previous incumbent.
I can't be too pissed off with Evans either. I've agreed with every managerial appointment at the time, and why we all want him to put in more money to sign better players, he is keeping us going and has put more money into the club than anyone else in history.
So what actually needs to change?
Well the football climate has changed, money-wise. But there's something to be said for having not only knowledgable football people running the club, but people with a deep care for the club. A care like us fans have.
So it seems to me, we need the following;
1. A very rich person or consortium to take the reins off Evans and pump more cash in than he can.
2. Proper football people to come back and run things, like the Cobbolds did. If part 1 was realised I'd bring Sheepshanks back. Yes he made mistakes, but he knows football, knows and loves the club. This might include getting someone like Burley back... or giving Dyer a chance. People who bleed blue. Because they're obviously going to give more than the next hopeful on the managerial conveyor belt. I hear that Lambert doesn't really have relationships with the players. That's like the opposite of Sir Bobby, and may be why it hasn't worked with most of the managers in the Evans era. When we've worked well it's been when people involved in the club are people who love it. Otherwise we're just A.N.Other FC.
3. I think Jim Magilton was onto something when he made that dossier about The Ipswich Way. We've lost that, lost what made Ipswich 'Ipswich.' Those values gave us an edge, to punch above our weight. Mick McCarthy is the best manager we've had in 20 years - and that says it all. His football (and I'm not really knocking him because he did the best he could with the tools he was given) was not the Ipswich way.
Erm, end of rant. |  |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 18:14 - Sep 1 with 879 views | BrixtonBlue |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 16:39 - Sep 1 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
We haven’t though - in 10 of those 20 seasons we finished higher in the pyramid than the season before. Even as at 2 years ago we were only a handful of places below where we were 20 years prior
In fact if we’re arbitrarily defining points in time, in 1990/91 we finished 34th in the pyramid so we were actually on an upwards trend since then
Things certainly weren’t perfect and yes there are other issues, but it’s only really in the past 2 years that things have gone off the rails. Lambert has been our manager for c75% of that time - and looks to be the most immediate problem as any vaguely competent manager should have us challenging in division 3 regardless of Evans [Post edited 1 Sep 2020 16:41]
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Absolute nonsense. You're in denial. Anything prior to 20 years ago is irrelevant as I've been talking about what we've done in the last 20 years.
In 2000/2001 we finished 5th in the Prem.
Then 18th, and relegated.
Then 7th, 5th, 3rd was a slight upward curve, but not enough to get promoted.
Then we were mid table treading water for the best part of a decade; 8th at best, 15th (3 times) at worst, but basically nothingness, neither troubling promotion or relegation.
Picked up slightly as we limped to 6th, then it was back to 7th, then a couple more mid-table finishes... before relegation again.
If you put all that in a graph it would be generally downwards, with a couple of brief up-spikes on the way. For 20 years. Arguably it would've been quicker if it weren't for Mick's ability to scrape results out of some fairly average players.
The facts are there for all to see. | |
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| (No subject) (n/t) on 18:37 - Sep 1 with 862 views | Pinewoodblue |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 18:52 - Sep 1 with 853 views | factual_blue |
This still hasn't been moved....
The football forum-ites wouldn't stand for a politics thread in football.... |  |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 18:55 - Sep 1 with 846 views | IpswichBoyBlue |
Sack Lambert, Put Paul Cook on a 10 year contract with Dyer as assistant. Jobs a good un. |  | | |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 18:57 - Sep 1 with 850 views | PhilTWTD |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 18:52 - Sep 1 by factual_blue |
This still hasn't been moved....
The football forum-ites wouldn't stand for a politics thread in football.... |
Very tempting to move another one over. |  | | |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:01 - Sep 1 with 841 views | JDB23 |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 15:22 - Sep 1 by BrixtonBlue |
Plenty seem to agree with me = argumentum ad populum.
Why have so many other managers failed?
The next manager will fail too, unless we change things properly. Pull back a bit. Look at the managers we've had in the last 20 years and look at the success they've had. Just changing the manager is clearly not the answer. |
Look at the managers in the last 20 years, how many of them have gone on to have success after us? Precisely none, because they’re crap.
Yes Evans is the biggest problem to this club as a whole, but having a half decent manager in place would mitigate some of the problems. We need Lambert gone and then we can talk about the bigger issues. |  | | |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:02 - Sep 1 with 841 views | BrixtonBlue |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 16:40 - Sep 1 by Herbivore |
Okay, if you want to look at the trajectory since relegation then the first 7 years or so of it can be explained by the us overstretching ourselves in the Prem combined with the collapse of ITV Digital leaving us financially in a mess. We went into admin and more or less had zero money to spend for a number of years as a result. We still had enough quality in the squad to regularly compete but that quality got stripped away and we then stagnated somewhat.
Evans came in and whilst initially we were well backed he made some poor managerial choices, this led to a period of further stagnation. He then finally appointed a capable manager but by that time the financial landscape of the Championship had changed drastically and relative to our rivals we became small spenders. Despite that, we managed 4 top half finishes in 5 seasons and seemed to finally have a decent academy conveyor belt on the go again. We then reverted back to appointing hopeless managers and tumbled out of the Championship and settled into midtable in League 1.
So the main reasons for our downturn are finances and poor managerial appointments. Finances are less of an issue currently as we are a big and well resourced side at League 1 level. The choice of manager, however, remains an issue and given ME's strike rate it is a concern going forward as well.
Basically, there aren't any easy fixes but more structure in the club would be helpful as others have pointed out, something to give us an overall philosophy on playing style and recruitment and academy development. Recruiting a manager/head coach to fit with that would also help. That said, in the short term the main way we could improve our lot would be to bin off our clown of a manager and get anybody remotely capable in to get us out of League 1. |
"Basically, there aren't any easy fixes but more structure in the club would be helpful as others have pointed out, something to give us an overall philosophy on playing style and recruitment and academy development."
This is essentially what I've been saying.
I'm not sure why you and Healy think 'top half finishes' in the Champ is such a big deal; whether you finish 10th or 15th is much of a muchness. If you finish in those kind of positions every year, it's not progress. And we would've finished much lower (and relegated sooner) if it weren't for Mick's firefighting abilities. Again, that's not progress. It's keeping your head above water at best, and that can only go on so long before you sink. I can't be the only one who was expecting relegation? | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:03 - Sep 1 with 838 views | IpswichBoyBlue |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 15:22 - Sep 1 by BrixtonBlue |
Plenty seem to agree with me = argumentum ad populum.
Why have so many other managers failed?
The next manager will fail too, unless we change things properly. Pull back a bit. Look at the managers we've had in the last 20 years and look at the success they've had. Just changing the manager is clearly not the answer. |
Success on the field, brings success off it. A GOOD manager can be the answer. Yes, we have been going slowly down hill for years and change will not happen overnight, but a change of manager can and should be the answer. | | | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:05 - Sep 1 with 836 views | BrixtonBlue |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:01 - Sep 1 by JDB23 |
Look at the managers in the last 20 years, how many of them have gone on to have success after us? Precisely none, because they’re crap.
Yes Evans is the biggest problem to this club as a whole, but having a half decent manager in place would mitigate some of the problems. We need Lambert gone and then we can talk about the bigger issues. |
But most of us agreed with most of those appointments.
There is something rotten in the club. If we sack Lambert shortly and appoint some other chump from the managerial merry-go-round, I genuinely don't expect anything different. We'll just have a different face to get angry at. | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:06 - Sep 1 with 836 views | Herbivore |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:02 - Sep 1 by BrixtonBlue |
"Basically, there aren't any easy fixes but more structure in the club would be helpful as others have pointed out, something to give us an overall philosophy on playing style and recruitment and academy development."
This is essentially what I've been saying.
I'm not sure why you and Healy think 'top half finishes' in the Champ is such a big deal; whether you finish 10th or 15th is much of a muchness. If you finish in those kind of positions every year, it's not progress. And we would've finished much lower (and relegated sooner) if it weren't for Mick's firefighting abilities. Again, that's not progress. It's keeping your head above water at best, and that can only go on so long before you sink. I can't be the only one who was expecting relegation? |
I don't think either of us called it progress as such, it just feels amiss in the characterisation of us being on the slide. The real slide happened after Mick left, from midtable finishing right next to Leeds and Norwich to bottom by a mile and midtable in League 1 in the space of 2 years. Of course the overall trajectory over 20 years has been downward but the biggest chunk of our decline has come on Lambert's watch, with a big assist from Hurst. [Post edited 1 Sep 2020 19:08]
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:10 - Sep 1 with 832 views | Herbivore |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:05 - Sep 1 by BrixtonBlue |
But most of us agreed with most of those appointments.
There is something rotten in the club. If we sack Lambert shortly and appoint some other chump from the managerial merry-go-round, I genuinely don't expect anything different. We'll just have a different face to get angry at. |
Think there was a lot of consternation around Jewell and Lambert as both looked busted flushes. Keane divided the crowd because he's a knob. Mick was the right man at the right time and Hurst fitted the profile of someone who had success at the lower levels. We clearly didn't do our due diligence there though. | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:20 - Sep 1 with 825 views | ghostofescobar |
Stop living in the past and pretending we are a big club because we won some stuff 40 years plus ago. |  |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:22 - Sep 1 with 823 views | JDB23 |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:10 - Sep 1 by Herbivore |
Think there was a lot of consternation around Jewell and Lambert as both looked busted flushes. Keane divided the crowd because he's a knob. Mick was the right man at the right time and Hurst fitted the profile of someone who had success at the lower levels. We clearly didn't do our due diligence there though. |
Yeah that's pretty accurate. It's not the fans job to vet these people and get an understanding of their previous jobs and what their visions are. I'm not so sure Hurst would have been a popular choice had we known his plans for the transfer window, which Evans surely must have.
Of course this club needs a restructure, a proper DoF, scouting network etc. But the thing that could provide an instant turnaround is sacking the guy we have picking the team right now. Will that fix ITFC alone? No, but it could put us in a better position to attempt it from. Of course I'm not sure any of us have much faith in ME appointing the right man, but it surely can't be worse than what we currently have. | | | |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:24 - Sep 1 with 820 views | BrixtonBlue |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:03 - Sep 1 by IpswichBoyBlue |
Success on the field, brings success off it. A GOOD manager can be the answer. Yes, we have been going slowly down hill for years and change will not happen overnight, but a change of manager can and should be the answer. |
I think it's part of the answer, but I respect your opinion. Stopping hamstringing our managers would help, especially if we do actually find a good one! | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:24 - Sep 1 with 819 views | The_Romford_Blue |
EvansOut |  |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:31 - Sep 1 with 812 views | BrixtonBlue |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:06 - Sep 1 by Herbivore |
I don't think either of us called it progress as such, it just feels amiss in the characterisation of us being on the slide. The real slide happened after Mick left, from midtable finishing right next to Leeds and Norwich to bottom by a mile and midtable in League 1 in the space of 2 years. Of course the overall trajectory over 20 years has been downward but the biggest chunk of our decline has come on Lambert's watch, with a big assist from Hurst. [Post edited 1 Sep 2020 19:08]
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That's just silly, and wrong, and you know it is. Mick was brought in to address the slide we were already on. To suggest "the biggest chunk of our decline has come on Lambert's watch" shows your pure hatred for the man. We were well and truly fecked, and on a downward slide, long before Lambert.
Come on Herbs, you MUST know you're talking nonsense now? Lambert's done little to stop the slide but to remotely suggest he's caused it is laughable. Your memory isn't that bad. | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:38 - Sep 1 with 803 views | Herbivore |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:31 - Sep 1 by BrixtonBlue |
That's just silly, and wrong, and you know it is. Mick was brought in to address the slide we were already on. To suggest "the biggest chunk of our decline has come on Lambert's watch" shows your pure hatred for the man. We were well and truly fecked, and on a downward slide, long before Lambert.
Come on Herbs, you MUST know you're talking nonsense now? Lambert's done little to stop the slide but to remotely suggest he's caused it is laughable. Your memory isn't that bad. |
Under whose watch did we get relegated from the Championship and finish 11th in League 1? | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:43 - Sep 1 with 792 views | J4ck22 |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:31 - Sep 1 by BrixtonBlue |
That's just silly, and wrong, and you know it is. Mick was brought in to address the slide we were already on. To suggest "the biggest chunk of our decline has come on Lambert's watch" shows your pure hatred for the man. We were well and truly fecked, and on a downward slide, long before Lambert.
Come on Herbs, you MUST know you're talking nonsense now? Lambert's done little to stop the slide but to remotely suggest he's caused it is laughable. Your memory isn't that bad. |
While I would blame Hurst more, Lambert's definitely contributed a good chunk to it. We were pretty stable under Mick for the preceding 5 or so years. | | | |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:46 - Sep 1 with 788 views | Swansea_Blue |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:38 - Sep 1 by Herbivore |
Under whose watch did we get relegated from the Championship and finish 11th in League 1? |
Evans' 
I've always lent more towards Dolly's side on this. Lambert's awful and we'd be hard pushed to do worse under a change. But that won't stop the long term decline. We certainly need to change Lambert to give ourselves a chance of getting out of this league in the short-term, but nothing will really change in the club while we carry on as we have for the last 13 years. |  |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:46 - Sep 1 with 786 views | Herbivore |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:43 - Sep 1 by J4ck22 |
While I would blame Hurst more, Lambert's definitely contributed a good chunk to it. We were pretty stable under Mick for the preceding 5 or so years. |
Exactly. Dollers can't use the fact that Jewell had us bottom in 2012 as evidence we were on the slide in 2018. In the 6 years in between we had four top half finishes. The biggest chunk of our decline has undoubtedly come over the past 2 years. We've declined a whole division FFS. | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:49 - Sep 1 with 776 views | Herbivore |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:46 - Sep 1 by Swansea_Blue |
Evans'
I've always lent more towards Dolly's side on this. Lambert's awful and we'd be hard pushed to do worse under a change. But that won't stop the long term decline. We certainly need to change Lambert to give ourselves a chance of getting out of this league in the short-term, but nothing will really change in the club while we carry on as we have for the last 13 years. |
That's fair, although a good manager can do okay under ME. It's not like it's impossible to work under him. Sadly we've had the perfect storm of poor owner and two terrible managers. | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 21:30 - Sep 1 with 744 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 18:14 - Sep 1 by BrixtonBlue |
Absolute nonsense. You're in denial. Anything prior to 20 years ago is irrelevant as I've been talking about what we've done in the last 20 years.
In 2000/2001 we finished 5th in the Prem.
Then 18th, and relegated.
Then 7th, 5th, 3rd was a slight upward curve, but not enough to get promoted.
Then we were mid table treading water for the best part of a decade; 8th at best, 15th (3 times) at worst, but basically nothingness, neither troubling promotion or relegation.
Picked up slightly as we limped to 6th, then it was back to 7th, then a couple more mid-table finishes... before relegation again.
If you put all that in a graph it would be generally downwards, with a couple of brief up-spikes on the way. For 20 years. Arguably it would've been quicker if it weren't for Mick's ability to scrape results out of some fairly average players.
The facts are there for all to see. |
The facts that you’ve just laid out show that we haven’t been in a downward spiral, as there have been periods where we have headed upwards.
Also those periods where we’ve headed downwards have been when the managers we have had have been sh*t and those that are upwards were when they aren’t, so really those facts only serve to suggest that actually the manager is indeed a massive part of the problem
Is the Evans regime a problem? Clearly yes, even the biggest Evans apologist would have to concede that things haven’t worked under his ownership and the structure is lacking. Can a manager succeed in it though - again clearly yes as one has. Lambert is the biggest immediate issue for me though, as regardless of structure we really should be at the top end of this division - that we weren’t falls firmly on his shoulders [Post edited 1 Sep 2020 21:33]
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 21:34 - Sep 1 with 733 views | Swansea_Blue |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:49 - Sep 1 by Herbivore |
That's fair, although a good manager can do okay under ME. It's not like it's impossible to work under him. Sadly we've had the perfect storm of poor owner and two terrible managers. |
Agreed. Although a good manager (a really good one) would likely get snapped up by a bigger club after any success, and we'd be back to square one with a crap manager choice again.
This is all one and the same discussion, just over different timescales. Absolutely the pressing need is to get someone who could give us a chance to get out of this division by forming a team again. I agree totally with that. But longer term I doubt that's sustainable even if we get lucky once (and the chances of getting lucky are slim). | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 21:59 - Sep 1 with 711 views | Herbivore |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 21:34 - Sep 1 by Swansea_Blue |
Agreed. Although a good manager (a really good one) would likely get snapped up by a bigger club after any success, and we'd be back to square one with a crap manager choice again.
This is all one and the same discussion, just over different timescales. Absolutely the pressing need is to get someone who could give us a chance to get out of this division by forming a team again. I agree totally with that. But longer term I doubt that's sustainable even if we get lucky once (and the chances of getting lucky are slim). |
I think finding a manager who can get us out of League 1 (in the right direction) wouldn't be that tricky but beyond that it'd be more of a challenge without changes in how the club is run and set up. | |
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| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 22:02 - Sep 1 with 708 views | BrixtonBlue |
| How do we ultimately fix ITFC? on 19:38 - Sep 1 by Herbivore |
Under whose watch did we get relegated from the Championship and finish 11th in League 1? |
Regardless of any context?! Pathetic. | |
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