| Loaning out dobra and el miz 13:32 - Sep 11 with 9816 views | Bluefish |
Seems too late for me. We should be involving them and trusting them, I just don't feel that prp trusts the kids. McGavin yes definitely but for dobra and el miz it feels they should have gone out last year (for longer in el mizouni case). |  |
| |  |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:49 - Sep 11 with 2605 views | gordon |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:39 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I know it wasn't your words. I replied to the comment about dinosaurs and they you came in to argue against it with an largely irrelevant counter.
I out forward some facts. It's the facts your not buying. ok, there are always some (flat earthers etc). You just said the facts speak for themselves, but when I presented them to you (which show he is playing a very good number of them) you've formed the opposite opinion anyway. Almost like you just hate Lambert and will fall on the anti Lambert side of the fence whatever happens.
The crux of this anyway is whether it's the right thing to do to send those 3 out in loan. I think we probably all agree it's good for McGavin.
The other two I was really hoping to see kick on this season so it's disappointing. Hard to know if it will end up being the right call. The ones last season you would have said underperformed for their positions were Edwards, Judge and Nolan. Judge has been one of the best performers so far. Nolan has forced his way into the starting line up. Edwards is right on the edge of it. It would have to be one of them to go instead and I think Edwards is the only real case. He can fill in at full back and is more adaptable. Difficult one. |
Judge, Nolan and Edwards were all really poor on Tuesday in an attacking sense, which against weak opposition was pretty disappointing - fair enough if they played well against Bristol Rovers, I didn't watch that one. |  | | |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:52 - Sep 11 with 2603 views | Herbivore |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:39 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I know it wasn't your words. I replied to the comment about dinosaurs and they you came in to argue against it with an largely irrelevant counter.
I out forward some facts. It's the facts your not buying. ok, there are always some (flat earthers etc). You just said the facts speak for themselves, but when I presented them to you (which show he is playing a very good number of them) you've formed the opposite opinion anyway. Almost like you just hate Lambert and will fall on the anti Lambert side of the fence whatever happens.
The crux of this anyway is whether it's the right thing to do to send those 3 out in loan. I think we probably all agree it's good for McGavin.
The other two I was really hoping to see kick on this season so it's disappointing. Hard to know if it will end up being the right call. The ones last season you would have said underperformed for their positions were Edwards, Judge and Nolan. Judge has been one of the best performers so far. Nolan has forced his way into the starting line up. Edwards is right on the edge of it. It would have to be one of them to go instead and I think Edwards is the only real case. He can fill in at full back and is more adaptable. Difficult one. |
But your apparent facts appear to clash with my actual fact that we were amongst the worst in the league last season for giving game time to young players, so that's why your apparent facts aren't really grabbing me. You mention flat earthers, interestingly your continued faith in Lambert in the face of all evidence reminds me very much of them.
Judge and Nolan were both very poor last season. That they're being given a chance again ahead of the likes of El Miz and Dobra troubles me, but then we've got a manager being given a second chance he didn't deserve so we may as well pick a side in his image. |  |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:54 - Sep 11 with 2596 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:42 - Sep 11 by JDB23 |
What facts have you produced? That he has played some young players in pre-season because we have lots of injuries/players unfit?
Clearly the facts show he isn't "playing a very good number of them" when we were bottom 6 in the league for giving minutes to young players. |
You can just read what I wrote again can't you? Yes to your first paragraph. Well actually in the season proper. We've played two games since pre-season and it's already clear most or all will play first league game as well that have already played.
There were other facts like he played Dozzell and Lankaster in the champ (along with Bish, Kenlock, Emmanuel, Downes etc btw). He played Downes and Woolf. He has increased the number of young players into the team for this season. I gave the average ages which were clearly very acceptable.
Lankaster was out last season who would have played.
These were all the facts I was talking about yes. |  |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:02 - Sep 11 with 2589 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:39 - Sep 11 by clive_baker |
I think they will come through, in time, but we have a very bloated squad at the moment and ultimately you can only pick 11. There's really 3 scenarios: A) They stay here and barely get a sniff, B) They go off and play football somewhere for a year, or C) They stay here and actually play semi regularly. I'm not averse to option C, but most agree that we need less rotation, and a consequence of that unfortunately is less football for the fringe players. Unless you rate them ahead of the senior players, and think either of these lads should be in that core 16-18 players in which case fair enough, but personally I don't. Not yet anyway. Therefore I think going off and playing elsewhere is favourable to sitting here in the U23's.
I think the difference for us is most squads at this level don't have the sort of depth we're sat on, specifically in their positions. We have central midfield options of Huws, Nolan and Skuse in most peoples 2nd string. They're a little unfortunate that they're midfielders to be fair, had they been a centre forward and a right back with as much promise as they've got they would be kept around the place I'm sure, and quite possibly getting a chance a la Drinan. |
I normally agree with you but I don't here.
El Mizouni looked quality for me every time he played last year. He makes things happen. And Dobra does similar. They are game changers from the bench. Something that the more experienced lads simply aren't.
I wouldn't be loaning them to a divisional rival - and this is their level. | | | |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:03 - Sep 11 with 2587 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:52 - Sep 11 by Herbivore |
But your apparent facts appear to clash with my actual fact that we were amongst the worst in the league last season for giving game time to young players, so that's why your apparent facts aren't really grabbing me. You mention flat earthers, interestingly your continued faith in Lambert in the face of all evidence reminds me very much of them.
Judge and Nolan were both very poor last season. That they're being given a chance again ahead of the likes of El Miz and Dobra troubles me, but then we've got a manager being given a second chance he didn't deserve so we may as well pick a side in his image. |
1) at no point was I arguing last season. You go off on weird tangents. This thing was about me objecting to the stupid claim he plays only dinosaurs. I showed that wasn't true.
2) I don't have continued faith in Lambert. Time and again I say he was lucky to keep his job, under big pressure and he has 5-10 games or he'll likely be gone. You always ignore this. I just point out when I disagree with negativity and anti Lambert stuff not based on reality. Big difference. Joe and some others are more critical of Lambert then me but generally reasoned arguments and I get their opinions.
3) They were disappointing yes. And listen as I say they were the ones where there was an argument. these things had to be looked at over pre-season. But then Judge has come back and been excellent so far. Rather than criticise that decision because you didn't want it you should actually (and only based on so far) applaud the fact that seems a good decision. Nolan has been decent (poor 2nd half against Arsenal aside). Are you saying same about Nsiala or given he's also fought hard to prove himself he deserves a 2nd chance. Or straight in with Ndaba. | |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:06 - Sep 11 with 2581 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:02 - Sep 11 by tractorboy1978 |
I normally agree with you but I don't here.
El Mizouni looked quality for me every time he played last year. He makes things happen. And Dobra does similar. They are game changers from the bench. Something that the more experienced lads simply aren't.
I wouldn't be loaning them to a divisional rival - and this is their level. |
I thought and hoped they would step up for this season. Would love to see them playing. But if the other lads are doing better (including Lankaster and Bish etc who weren't around much or at all) then it's a hard one. Lankaster out on loan instead? | |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:13 - Sep 11 with 2574 views | Herbivore |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:03 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
1) at no point was I arguing last season. You go off on weird tangents. This thing was about me objecting to the stupid claim he plays only dinosaurs. I showed that wasn't true.
2) I don't have continued faith in Lambert. Time and again I say he was lucky to keep his job, under big pressure and he has 5-10 games or he'll likely be gone. You always ignore this. I just point out when I disagree with negativity and anti Lambert stuff not based on reality. Big difference. Joe and some others are more critical of Lambert then me but generally reasoned arguments and I get their opinions.
3) They were disappointing yes. And listen as I say they were the ones where there was an argument. these things had to be looked at over pre-season. But then Judge has come back and been excellent so far. Rather than criticise that decision because you didn't want it you should actually (and only based on so far) applaud the fact that seems a good decision. Nolan has been decent (poor 2nd half against Arsenal aside). Are you saying same about Nsiala or given he's also fought hard to prove himself he deserves a 2nd chance. Or straight in with Ndaba. |
You're basing your views on Judge and Nolan on one game, a glorified preseason friendly against Bristol Rovers. Perhaps you should wait until the season proper has started before declaring that Judge has been excellent?
In terms of playing the youngsters versus sticking with his dinosaurs, surely looking at last season is relevant, given we've not kicked a ball in the league yet this year? And how does him looking to loan out El Miz and Dobra sit within your narrative that he plays the youngsters? How does your narrative that he gives youngsters a chance sit with us being one of the worst in the division last season for giving minutes to youngsters?
Sorry mate, you're all over the place on this one. There's no case to be made that Lambert has done a good job when it comes to bringing through the youngsters thus far. Most of those he's given games to were blooded under pervious managers and those he has given debuts to he's barely played there after. It's another area where the PR doesn't match up with reality. | |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:14 - Sep 11 with 2572 views | clive_baker |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:02 - Sep 11 by tractorboy1978 |
I normally agree with you but I don't here.
El Mizouni looked quality for me every time he played last year. He makes things happen. And Dobra does similar. They are game changers from the bench. Something that the more experienced lads simply aren't.
I wouldn't be loaning them to a divisional rival - and this is their level. |
I don't disagree that they both look really promising, we're definitely on the same page there. I like that they've got some rawness about them, they're like a pair of rough around the edges street footballers almost, who are entirely unpredictable which is very much part of their appeal. I think the point about being something different off the bench is valid. If we're 1 nil down with 20 minutes to go I would sooner roll the dice and throw on a wild card than a steady Eddy, or steady Edwards in our case.
I was coming at it more from the perspective of their development. I just can't see them playing an awful lot of football here this season. A number of posts on here over recent weeks have been people putting their preferred sides up and I've not seen these lads in any of them. I guess it's a trade off, is it best that they contribute a little this season and perhaps only make 5 or 6 league appearances off the bench, or loan them out and perhaps be better for it next season. I really don't think we loan players out enough, and we've seen what it can do to the likes of Downes and Woolfenden. Joe is right, last season was wasted in that respect. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:18 - Sep 11 with 2569 views | tractordownsouth |
Send Dobra out but keep El Mizouni. I think having one of them around is a good thing, and if El Mizouni can compete for the Right Forward slot (currently the weakest position in the squad) then that's even better |  |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:21 - Sep 11 with 2566 views | ITFC_96 |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:18 - Sep 11 by tractordownsouth |
Send Dobra out but keep El Mizouni. I think having one of them around is a good thing, and if El Mizouni can compete for the Right Forward slot (currently the weakest position in the squad) then that's even better |
If anything, Dobra should be in the right forward role. He is naturally further forward on the pitch than El Mizouni. They should both stay, but they are different players who offer different things. | | | |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:25 - Sep 11 with 2559 views | Herbivore |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:21 - Sep 11 by ITFC_96 |
If anything, Dobra should be in the right forward role. He is naturally further forward on the pitch than El Mizouni. They should both stay, but they are different players who offer different things. |
Agreed. All it's going to take is for Bishop to get injured again and all of a sudden our midfield options don't look very dynamic. El Miz is the closest we have to another Bishop as he will go past players and carry the ball and look to get involved high up the pitch. He is really a midfield player though whereas Dobra in this system is a wide forward and for me I'd prefer to see him getting a chance in that role over Judge who is pretty one paced and one dimensional and not really a wide forward. | |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:31 - Sep 11 with 2544 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:13 - Sep 11 by Herbivore |
You're basing your views on Judge and Nolan on one game, a glorified preseason friendly against Bristol Rovers. Perhaps you should wait until the season proper has started before declaring that Judge has been excellent?
In terms of playing the youngsters versus sticking with his dinosaurs, surely looking at last season is relevant, given we've not kicked a ball in the league yet this year? And how does him looking to loan out El Miz and Dobra sit within your narrative that he plays the youngsters? How does your narrative that he gives youngsters a chance sit with us being one of the worst in the division last season for giving minutes to youngsters?
Sorry mate, you're all over the place on this one. There's no case to be made that Lambert has done a good job when it comes to bringing through the youngsters thus far. Most of those he's given games to were blooded under pervious managers and those he has given debuts to he's barely played there after. It's another area where the PR doesn't match up with reality. |
No i'm not! Why would I just base my view on 1 game.
Your second paragraph...you've totally lost the point. Forget it honestly.
Hahahaha - then I'M all over the place. Seriously we must stop this.
And then and I quote " No argument that Lambert has done a good job" - so you've just brought it back to what you were arguing all along. This is absolute classic. Not even what we were talking about.
Enough. Let's just leave it. Please (you can have the final word). | |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:33 - Sep 11 with 2542 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:25 - Sep 11 by Herbivore |
Agreed. All it's going to take is for Bishop to get injured again and all of a sudden our midfield options don't look very dynamic. El Miz is the closest we have to another Bishop as he will go past players and carry the ball and look to get involved high up the pitch. He is really a midfield player though whereas Dobra in this system is a wide forward and for me I'd prefer to see him getting a chance in that role over Judge who is pretty one paced and one dimensional and not really a wide forward. |
And Lankester has barely kicked a ball after being out for the best part of a year and a half. | | | |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:37 - Sep 11 with 2536 views | Darth_Koont |
Just using Foden and Greenwood because they're top of mind but if Man City and Man Utd didn't do it then I don't see why a League One club like us should loan out our best young players.
The trick is to involve them in a winning team. If that's what's really behind the loan talk then God's speed. |  |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:39 - Sep 11 with 2534 views | gordon |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:33 - Sep 11 by tractorboy1978 |
And Lankester has barely kicked a ball after being out for the best part of a year and a half. |
Yes, if Lankester went out on loan to a League 2 or even a national league team until Christmas that would make a lot of sense to me.
If Dobra and El Mizouni are loaned out, Lankester, Bishop and KVY struggle for fitness/selection and Downes leaves, which is all fairly likely, we're then left with a pretty uninspiring team that is really going to struggle to break half-decent teams down. | | | |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:42 - Sep 11 with 2528 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:39 - Sep 11 by gordon |
Yes, if Lankester went out on loan to a League 2 or even a national league team until Christmas that would make a lot of sense to me.
If Dobra and El Mizouni are loaned out, Lankester, Bishop and KVY struggle for fitness/selection and Downes leaves, which is all fairly likely, we're then left with a pretty uninspiring team that is really going to struggle to break half-decent teams down. |
Totally agree with your second paragraph. And if Jackson goes...
For all the players we have, there isn't a great deal of dynamism, energy, exuberance. Those two bring that - as I said earlier, game changers/make things happen. | | | |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:51 - Sep 11 with 2517 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:39 - Sep 11 by gordon |
Yes, if Lankester went out on loan to a League 2 or even a national league team until Christmas that would make a lot of sense to me.
If Dobra and El Mizouni are loaned out, Lankester, Bishop and KVY struggle for fitness/selection and Downes leaves, which is all fairly likely, we're then left with a pretty uninspiring team that is really going to struggle to break half-decent teams down. |
Agree. Seems to think Lankaster is good to go based on this but not played much footie.
As I said before I'm fine if they have recalls or say short loan. Someone mentioned that isn't possible which is a worry.
Phil are there new rules in loans? | |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:53 - Sep 11 with 2514 views | Herbivore |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:51 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
Agree. Seems to think Lankaster is good to go based on this but not played much footie.
As I said before I'm fine if they have recalls or say short loan. Someone mentioned that isn't possible which is a worry.
Phil are there new rules in loans? |
Loans to League sides have been window to window for a while now. If all parties agree they can be brought to an end early I believe, as we did with Tayo Edun, but if any party doesn't agree they can't be recalled so we can't recall them unilaterally. | |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 18:23 - Sep 11 with 2497 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 17:53 - Sep 11 by Herbivore |
Loans to League sides have been window to window for a while now. If all parties agree they can be brought to an end early I believe, as we did with Tayo Edun, but if any party doesn't agree they can't be recalled so we can't recall them unilaterally. |
Hmmm. I'm not over keen on both Dobra and El Miz going. Until Jan max then for now (given its less far). Season loans for them with no recall would be a worry. Let's see. | |
| |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 18:29 - Sep 11 with 2483 views | Ace_High1 |
Yup and this is why I hate the make up of our squad.
So more average senior squad filler taking up a wage and a place at the expense of youth.
Get rid of Nolan, Donacien, Kenlock, Wilson, Jackson and even likes of Judge and Edwards and promote El Miz, Dobra, Folami etc. |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
