| Loaning out dobra and el miz 13:32 - Sep 11 with 7277 views | Bluefish |
Seems too late for me. We should be involving them and trusting them, I just don't feel that prp trusts the kids. McGavin yes definitely but for dobra and el miz it feels they should have gone out last year (for longer in el mizouni case). |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:49 - Sep 11 with 2755 views | Herbivore |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:41 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
Except this doesn't make any sense does it.
Last season you moaned that he rotated so by definition that wasn't the case was it. Plenty of younger players got in.
This season he's run the rule over this squad in pre-season and effectively promoted Drinnan, Dozzell and Ndaba with Lankaster back and also being one of the youngsters he's looking to keep and play. With Bishop (also pretty young and obvs not a dinasaur also being first choice) it's reasonable and absolutely clearly not to 'play his dinasaurs'. Why would you just ignore what's obvious just to make a silly statement?!
Not to mention Woolf by the way. That old Dinosaur at 21 and Downes who would be playing. Our entire midfield would be academy. Grow up! [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 14:49]
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Last season only five sides in the league gave fewer minutes to young players than us, this despite us having some excellent talent coming through our academy. It's patently obvious that Lambert isn't really much of one for putting his faith in youngsters. Only Downes and Woolf got any significant game time last season. |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:53 - Sep 11 with 2747 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:24 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
Last year was such a wasted year, in nearly all respects.
I think whilst we have a big squad, sending them both out is a bit much - especially El miz who impressed at Cambridge and can play in basically any of the midfield and forward positions.
Dobra is a bit greener, and McGavin has more traffic in his way so can just about accept them - but for me letting Idi go would be a mistake as he has that X Factor and swagger we sometimes lack as a team. He wouldn't be far off starting for me |
The issue for me would be when injuries start to creep in. I'm ok with them going on loan but particularly El Miz I would like to see a quick release clause Dobra as well if possible and also maybe until Christmas max if not.
McGavin I think would benefit from a full season out on loan. |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:58 - Sep 11 with 2730 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:49 - Sep 11 by Herbivore |
Last season only five sides in the league gave fewer minutes to young players than us, this despite us having some excellent talent coming through our academy. It's patently obvious that Lambert isn't really much of one for putting his faith in youngsters. Only Downes and Woolf got any significant game time last season. |
I've just said what is happening this season and on Saturday and who Lambert sees as this season's squad players. There is more youth players playing already. Some of them have stepped up further and are more ready (Dozzell the most obvious but Ndaba also). Also Lankaster missed all of last season and would have played.
We're talking about those boys going out on loan now and whether this is right. The comment was he only plays the dinasaurs. I've just quite clearly shown that is nonsense and your counter argument (As you ALWAYS have to make regardless of logic) is hardly relevent to what I said is it and this context. | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:05 - Sep 11 with 2718 views | itfcjoe |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:58 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I've just said what is happening this season and on Saturday and who Lambert sees as this season's squad players. There is more youth players playing already. Some of them have stepped up further and are more ready (Dozzell the most obvious but Ndaba also). Also Lankaster missed all of last season and would have played.
We're talking about those boys going out on loan now and whether this is right. The comment was he only plays the dinasaurs. I've just quite clearly shown that is nonsense and your counter argument (As you ALWAYS have to make regardless of logic) is hardly relevent to what I said is it and this context. |
Dozzell was part of the first team squad last season, the promotion of Ndaba who wasn't given a squad number or a place in the team photo is seemingly purely by necessity due to injuries at the back.
Our team will be older than last season, and was one of the oldest in the league as it was |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:13 - Sep 11 with 2706 views | ITFC_96 |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:58 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I've just said what is happening this season and on Saturday and who Lambert sees as this season's squad players. There is more youth players playing already. Some of them have stepped up further and are more ready (Dozzell the most obvious but Ndaba also). Also Lankaster missed all of last season and would have played.
We're talking about those boys going out on loan now and whether this is right. The comment was he only plays the dinasaurs. I've just quite clearly shown that is nonsense and your counter argument (As you ALWAYS have to make regardless of logic) is hardly relevent to what I said is it and this context. |
We will see come Christmas when the usual lot have us firmly in 10th place in the League... | | | |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:18 - Sep 11 with 2695 views | Herbivore |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:58 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I've just said what is happening this season and on Saturday and who Lambert sees as this season's squad players. There is more youth players playing already. Some of them have stepped up further and are more ready (Dozzell the most obvious but Ndaba also). Also Lankaster missed all of last season and would have played.
We're talking about those boys going out on loan now and whether this is right. The comment was he only plays the dinasaurs. I've just quite clearly shown that is nonsense and your counter argument (As you ALWAYS have to make regardless of logic) is hardly relevent to what I said is it and this context. |
Ndaba will barely play this season, he's had game time because of injuries to others. Drinan likewise. Dozzell was in the first team squad last season, he will hopefully get more minutes this season but then that's likely to be instead of Downes. So really we're not looking very likely to give much more game time to youngsters this year than we did last year when we were one of the worst in the division for giving game time to young players. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 15:19]
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:20 - Sep 11 with 2696 views | SomethingBlue |
Yep it's not great. Lambert is seemingly relying on those who failed last year to prove a point, but even the best sides need freshening up to avoid going stale. At least one of those lads needs to be regularly involved. | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:25 - Sep 11 with 2681 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:05 - Sep 11 by itfcjoe |
Dozzell was part of the first team squad last season, the promotion of Ndaba who wasn't given a squad number or a place in the team photo is seemingly purely by necessity due to injuries at the back.
Our team will be older than last season, and was one of the oldest in the league as it was |
Yes but that's progression re Dozzell and Ndaba. Lambert showed inclination to play Ndaba start of last year but he blew it. Hopefully maturing. He has taken his chance and probably now won't be loaned out. Lambert was playing Lankaster in the champ (and Dozzell). These boys don't get a free ticket because they are home grown. He has shown that if they perform they will play. Downes and Woolf are obvious examples but now Dozzell looks to be taking his chance. Lankaster has previously been trusted so no doubt will.
We've kept nearly the same squad bland everyone is one year older so on pure average age with Ward 35 coming then that might be the case. Sat average age was 27. With KVY it would have been 26 and Downes probably 25. Any of those numbers is great.
A good measure is the academy boys (and those brought to the club young making the squad/team regularly)
That will be: Dozzell, Downes, Woolf, Bishop, Drinnan (possibly) Lankaster. Add Ndaba getting some mins and that's really succesful progress on the academy success. Dobra and El Mizouni's time will follow if they progress. | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:28 - Sep 11 with 2680 views | Kieran_Knows |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:05 - Sep 11 by clive_baker |
It's part of the maturation process for the younger players, to get them ready for the starting XI. We could well have a side including Woolfy, Bishop, Downes, Dozzell and maybe Lankester too on a good day. 5 academy graduates in the side, so there's evidence enough to suggest if players are good enough there are opportunities. I just think it's an awful lot to ask of the next 'tranche' a la Dobra and El-Miz to expect that of them right now. They're both raw, and I think they'll benefit more from being a more involved member of a squad in the league below.
As for the senior pro's here, yes some (many) under-performed last season, but there's a multitude of reasons for that which largely all point back at the management IMO. They're the issues which need addressing before casting everyone associated with the club in the past 2 years aside, or we'll continue in this downward spiral. |
I don't buy it personally. Not when you have a plan which is centred around bringing young players through, even more so given how the 'senior' pros performed last year also. |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:31 - Sep 11 with 2671 views | BlueBadger |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:28 - Sep 11 by Kieran_Knows |
I don't buy it personally. Not when you have a plan which is centred around bringing young players through, even more so given how the 'senior' pros performed last year also. |
The *real* point of the five point plan is to make Evens look like he's interested in running the club properly, not *actually* bringing young players through. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 15:31]
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:33 - Sep 11 with 2662 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:18 - Sep 11 by Herbivore |
Ndaba will barely play this season, he's had game time because of injuries to others. Drinan likewise. Dozzell was in the first team squad last season, he will hopefully get more minutes this season but then that's likely to be instead of Downes. So really we're not looking very likely to give much more game time to youngsters this year than we did last year when we were one of the worst in the division for giving game time to young players. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 15:19]
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I agree on Ndaba. His aim is to get minutes and fight for a place. That is his progression. Tough ask to have to youths as your CBs.
I think Drinnan will not start many once Norwood and Jackson are back (would you play him ahead?) Again it's about him proving himself. Manager has shown he will play him though. He could easily have played Sears there and 'a dinosaur' outside or played Hawkins. Again Drinans progress is to make squad and get minutes. Anything more would be an incredible achievement for him.
Dozzell would be more directly competing with Skuse. Nolan and Downes. He's enthusing over Dozzell's performance. Why would he do that if he wants him to fail and drop out. That would make him look bad. If he drops him it will be for not keeping the standard.
My issue was the whole dinosaur comment. Not true. I feel i've outlined it with facts so if you take take this onboard then we'll go in circles. | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:35 - Sep 11 with 2658 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:25 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
Yes but that's progression re Dozzell and Ndaba. Lambert showed inclination to play Ndaba start of last year but he blew it. Hopefully maturing. He has taken his chance and probably now won't be loaned out. Lambert was playing Lankaster in the champ (and Dozzell). These boys don't get a free ticket because they are home grown. He has shown that if they perform they will play. Downes and Woolf are obvious examples but now Dozzell looks to be taking his chance. Lankaster has previously been trusted so no doubt will.
We've kept nearly the same squad bland everyone is one year older so on pure average age with Ward 35 coming then that might be the case. Sat average age was 27. With KVY it would have been 26 and Downes probably 25. Any of those numbers is great.
A good measure is the academy boys (and those brought to the club young making the squad/team regularly)
That will be: Dozzell, Downes, Woolf, Bishop, Drinnan (possibly) Lankaster. Add Ndaba getting some mins and that's really succesful progress on the academy success. Dobra and El Mizouni's time will follow if they progress. |
I think generally compared to seasons gone by we have bedded in some younger players and shown interest but in all fairness does it really matter what age the starting 11 are , how young the bench is and how the same old faces are getting chosen ?
Let's just have the best 11 out there and let's see them keep that blo0dy shirt
Winning is a mentality and a good one at that ! |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:39 - Sep 11 with 2650 views | clive_baker |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:28 - Sep 11 by Kieran_Knows |
I don't buy it personally. Not when you have a plan which is centred around bringing young players through, even more so given how the 'senior' pros performed last year also. |
I think they will come through, in time, but we have a very bloated squad at the moment and ultimately you can only pick 11. There's really 3 scenarios: A) They stay here and barely get a sniff, B) They go off and play football somewhere for a year, or C) They stay here and actually play semi regularly. I'm not averse to option C, but most agree that we need less rotation, and a consequence of that unfortunately is less football for the fringe players. Unless you rate them ahead of the senior players, and think either of these lads should be in that core 16-18 players in which case fair enough, but personally I don't. Not yet anyway. Therefore I think going off and playing elsewhere is favourable to sitting here in the U23's.
I think the difference for us is most squads at this level don't have the sort of depth we're sat on, specifically in their positions. We have central midfield options of Huws, Nolan and Skuse in most peoples 2nd string. They're a little unfortunate that they're midfielders to be fair, had they been a centre forward and a right back with as much promise as they've got they would be kept around the place I'm sure, and quite possibly getting a chance a la Drinan. |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:40 - Sep 11 with 2646 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:35 - Sep 11 by Metal_Hacker |
I think generally compared to seasons gone by we have bedded in some younger players and shown interest but in all fairness does it really matter what age the starting 11 are , how young the bench is and how the same old faces are getting chosen ?
Let's just have the best 11 out there and let's see them keep that blo0dy shirt
Winning is a mentality and a good one at that ! |
I can't argue with that.
Got to say I was hoping to see El Miz and Dobra pushing for a place. But as you rightly say it has to be the best 11. If they aren't showing they are as good as the others then they need a platform to get better which won't be out bench and u23s. | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:42 - Sep 11 with 2644 views | Swansea_Blue |
All seems a bit weird doesn't it. Considering these were our promising youngsters in the championship, now we've dropped down a league and haven't even performed well in this one, you'd we'd be closer to their level now. f we were still in the Championship I bet we'd be trying to get the a L1 club to go out on loan too. |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:48 - Sep 11 with 2631 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:42 - Sep 11 by Swansea_Blue |
All seems a bit weird doesn't it. Considering these were our promising youngsters in the championship, now we've dropped down a league and haven't even performed well in this one, you'd we'd be closer to their level now. f we were still in the Championship I bet we'd be trying to get the a L1 club to go out on loan too. |
I do think they would get in half the L1 clubs to be fair. As someone alluded to above their biggest issue is they play where we have some real strength in depth. I think for Lambert it's really one from Dobra and Lankaster that is going to get opportunity. He can't really offer both of them it when they are already scrapping with Edwards, Sears, Judge (and Jackson can play there). What is better for Dobra the odd appearance in EFL Trophy again or matches each week.
Rules wise I guess an L1 team can take them but not sure Lambert would strengthen the competition. | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:50 - Sep 11 with 2624 views | braveblue |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 13:41 - Sep 11 by clive_baker |
I'm pretty critical of Lambert, and firmly remain so given the mess he's made of his time here, but I am inclined to agree with him on this. They both just need to play a lot of competitive football, and they won't do that here. They've shown that they're talented, full of promise, and as tempted as it is to think they should be more involved in the senior team especially given how sh1t we were last season, from what I've seen of both they're still way behind the likes of Judge, Sears, Edwards etc in terms of those wide roles. Then there's Lankester who seems something of a forgotten man at the moment. It remains to be seen what he can offer post his injury setback. Centrally we're really well stocked, so I can't see El-Miz getting a look in there anytime soon.
They're 19. Get them out to L2 to clubs where they're going to play regularly. It'll do them the world of good and they'll come back much better for it. I also think there's some merit in having a slightly trimmer squad ourselves which is easier to manage. |
The same players that were on relegation form last season. We need fresh legs and hunger. | | | |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:51 - Sep 11 with 2625 views | Bluefish |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:48 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I do think they would get in half the L1 clubs to be fair. As someone alluded to above their biggest issue is they play where we have some real strength in depth. I think for Lambert it's really one from Dobra and Lankaster that is going to get opportunity. He can't really offer both of them it when they are already scrapping with Edwards, Sears, Judge (and Jackson can play there). What is better for Dobra the odd appearance in EFL Trophy again or matches each week.
Rules wise I guess an L1 team can take them but not sure Lambert would strengthen the competition. |
Lambert helped a team finish above us last season
If Lambert can't get a place for then because of judge and Edwards and Jackson out of position then he might as well give up | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:53 - Sep 11 with 2615 views | Fixed_It |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 14:53 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
The issue for me would be when injuries start to creep in. I'm ok with them going on loan but particularly El Miz I would like to see a quick release clause Dobra as well if possible and also maybe until Christmas max if not.
McGavin I think would benefit from a full season out on loan. |
All loans are window to window or full season now, aren't they? No quick release clauses allowed. |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:57 - Sep 11 with 2612 views | jayessess |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:48 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I do think they would get in half the L1 clubs to be fair. As someone alluded to above their biggest issue is they play where we have some real strength in depth. I think for Lambert it's really one from Dobra and Lankaster that is going to get opportunity. He can't really offer both of them it when they are already scrapping with Edwards, Sears, Judge (and Jackson can play there). What is better for Dobra the odd appearance in EFL Trophy again or matches each week.
Rules wise I guess an L1 team can take them but not sure Lambert would strengthen the competition. |
I think that might an issue for centre midfield but out wide? Can't say that Edwards, Sears or Judge have been so good over the past 12 months that we should be considering them a firm block in their path. |  |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:26 - Sep 11 with 2579 views | Herbivore |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:33 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I agree on Ndaba. His aim is to get minutes and fight for a place. That is his progression. Tough ask to have to youths as your CBs.
I think Drinnan will not start many once Norwood and Jackson are back (would you play him ahead?) Again it's about him proving himself. Manager has shown he will play him though. He could easily have played Sears there and 'a dinosaur' outside or played Hawkins. Again Drinans progress is to make squad and get minutes. Anything more would be an incredible achievement for him.
Dozzell would be more directly competing with Skuse. Nolan and Downes. He's enthusing over Dozzell's performance. Why would he do that if he wants him to fail and drop out. That would make him look bad. If he drops him it will be for not keeping the standard.
My issue was the whole dinosaur comment. Not true. I feel i've outlined it with facts so if you take take this onboard then we'll go in circles. |
Your defence of Lambert is quite touching, but the dinosaur comment - which wasn't mine by the way - is absolutely fair enough in the context of us being one of the worst sides in the league for playing youngsters last season and now looking very likely to be in the same boat this season too. I've listened to your arguments but I'm not buying them. For all his rhetoric, Lambert really hasn't done an awful lot for us in terms of developing the youngsters. You don't develop youngsters by not playing them and the facts speak for themselves on that front. | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:30 - Sep 11 with 2572 views | Herbivore |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 15:40 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I can't argue with that.
Got to say I was hoping to see El Miz and Dobra pushing for a place. But as you rightly say it has to be the best 11. If they aren't showing they are as good as the others then they need a platform to get better which won't be out bench and u23s. |
I'd say they showed plenty last season when given the chance. However Lambert instead persisted with the likes of Judge and Nolan despite them consistently under-performing. I'm not sure that sends a great message. It seems he's largely sticking with that old guard again mainly rather than giving these youngsters a chance to show they can do better. | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:39 - Sep 11 with 2564 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:26 - Sep 11 by Herbivore |
Your defence of Lambert is quite touching, but the dinosaur comment - which wasn't mine by the way - is absolutely fair enough in the context of us being one of the worst sides in the league for playing youngsters last season and now looking very likely to be in the same boat this season too. I've listened to your arguments but I'm not buying them. For all his rhetoric, Lambert really hasn't done an awful lot for us in terms of developing the youngsters. You don't develop youngsters by not playing them and the facts speak for themselves on that front. |
I know it wasn't your words. I replied to the comment about dinosaurs and they you came in to argue against it with an largely irrelevant counter.
I out forward some facts. It's the facts your not buying. ok, there are always some (flat earthers etc). You just said the facts speak for themselves, but when I presented them to you (which show he is playing a very good number of them) you've formed the opposite opinion anyway. Almost like you just hate Lambert and will fall on the anti Lambert side of the fence whatever happens.
The crux of this anyway is whether it's the right thing to do to send those 3 out in loan. I think we probably all agree it's good for McGavin.
The other two I was really hoping to see kick on this season so it's disappointing. Hard to know if it will end up being the right call. The ones last season you would have said underperformed for their positions were Edwards, Judge and Nolan. Judge has been one of the best performers so far. Nolan has forced his way into the starting line up. Edwards is right on the edge of it. It would have to be one of them to go instead and I think Edwards is the only real case. He can fill in at full back and is more adaptable. Difficult one. | |
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| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:42 - Sep 11 with 2562 views | JDB23 |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:39 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I know it wasn't your words. I replied to the comment about dinosaurs and they you came in to argue against it with an largely irrelevant counter.
I out forward some facts. It's the facts your not buying. ok, there are always some (flat earthers etc). You just said the facts speak for themselves, but when I presented them to you (which show he is playing a very good number of them) you've formed the opposite opinion anyway. Almost like you just hate Lambert and will fall on the anti Lambert side of the fence whatever happens.
The crux of this anyway is whether it's the right thing to do to send those 3 out in loan. I think we probably all agree it's good for McGavin.
The other two I was really hoping to see kick on this season so it's disappointing. Hard to know if it will end up being the right call. The ones last season you would have said underperformed for their positions were Edwards, Judge and Nolan. Judge has been one of the best performers so far. Nolan has forced his way into the starting line up. Edwards is right on the edge of it. It would have to be one of them to go instead and I think Edwards is the only real case. He can fill in at full back and is more adaptable. Difficult one. |
What facts have you produced? That he has played some young players in pre-season because we have lots of injuries/players unfit?
Clearly the facts show he isn't "playing a very good number of them" when we were bottom 6 in the league for giving minutes to young players. | | | |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:42 - Sep 11 with 2565 views | BlueBadger |
| Loaning out dobra and el miz on 16:39 - Sep 11 by Terry_Nutkins |
I know it wasn't your words. I replied to the comment about dinosaurs and they you came in to argue against it with an largely irrelevant counter.
I out forward some facts. It's the facts your not buying. ok, there are always some (flat earthers etc). You just said the facts speak for themselves, but when I presented them to you (which show he is playing a very good number of them) you've formed the opposite opinion anyway. Almost like you just hate Lambert and will fall on the anti Lambert side of the fence whatever happens.
The crux of this anyway is whether it's the right thing to do to send those 3 out in loan. I think we probably all agree it's good for McGavin.
The other two I was really hoping to see kick on this season so it's disappointing. Hard to know if it will end up being the right call. The ones last season you would have said underperformed for their positions were Edwards, Judge and Nolan. Judge has been one of the best performers so far. Nolan has forced his way into the starting line up. Edwards is right on the edge of it. It would have to be one of them to go instead and I think Edwards is the only real case. He can fill in at full back and is more adaptable. Difficult one. |
Most people who want him out(I say 'most', I mean 'everyone bar Fishers') are willing to be and WANT to be convinced that he can turn it around. The trouble is that for all his fine words and promises, the evidence on the pitch simply isn't there. [Post edited 11 Sep 2020 16:49]
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