| A Crisis of Conservatism 14:00 - Sep 17 with 7318 views | tractordownsouth |
I've written another piece on my blog about how Johnson has moved the Tories away from traditional conservatism and completely reinvented the party.
I'm still not sure whether this approach can survive the likely economic impact of Brexit, or whether it's a house of cards ready to topple down.
https://www.thingscanonlygetbetter.online/post/a-crisis-of-conservatism |  |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:41 - Sep 17 with 3827 views | GeoffSentence |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:12 - Sep 17 by SpruceMoose |
Does the conclusion involve the phrase 'but blue passports'? |
I have one, and it is actually quite a pretty thing. Midnight blue I would say, very dark indeed. |  |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:44 - Sep 17 with 3825 views | StokieBlue |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:36 - Sep 17 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
Perhaps I have missed understood.
My point is that you don’t have to buy your shirts from only one supplier, if Adidas won’t sell to you then Admiral (are they still going?) will. |
You can of course purchase your shirt from someone else. However if you have a large internal market into which the shirts can be sold it's far more likely that the producer will both prioritise your needs and give you a better deal.
We have gone from being in a large market which is a priority for producers and thus gets free trade deals on decent terms to a small market which is unlikely to be a priority to the producer and one where they might not feel such a need to give a better deal.
It's a simplistic analogy but at the core it fundamentally represents the position the UK is now in. We will still get trade deals but without the leverage to push back on demands it's unlikely to be on as favourable terms that a larger market can demand.
SB |  | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:44 - Sep 17 with 3824 views | Swansea_Blue |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:21 - Sep 17 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
We are in transition the economic effects of life outside the EU, whether good or bad are yet to be felt. |
Yes, we are in transition but we have left. And it's not strictly true that all the economic effects are yet to be felt. We've been feeling some since the referendum result. |  |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:55 - Sep 17 with 3807 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:44 - Sep 17 by StokieBlue |
You can of course purchase your shirt from someone else. However if you have a large internal market into which the shirts can be sold it's far more likely that the producer will both prioritise your needs and give you a better deal.
We have gone from being in a large market which is a priority for producers and thus gets free trade deals on decent terms to a small market which is unlikely to be a priority to the producer and one where they might not feel such a need to give a better deal.
It's a simplistic analogy but at the core it fundamentally represents the position the UK is now in. We will still get trade deals but without the leverage to push back on demands it's unlikely to be on as favourable terms that a larger market can demand.
SB |
I guess we will see. It is entirely possible that free from the constraints imposed by the large market trying to balance the interests of so many diverse nations with differing needs, we can cut deals that prioritise the UK’s interests.
Probably not a good time to widen the debate as I have other work to do but, Brexit is not just about how we trade with other nations there are many other issues to do with being a member of the EU (some good some awful) that also drove the referendum outcome. |  | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:56 - Sep 17 with 3802 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:44 - Sep 17 by Swansea_Blue |
Yes, we are in transition but we have left. And it's not strictly true that all the economic effects are yet to be felt. We've been feeling some since the referendum result. |
I’m guessing all bad in your opinion? | | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:58 - Sep 17 with 3800 views | Herbivore |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:55 - Sep 17 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
I guess we will see. It is entirely possible that free from the constraints imposed by the large market trying to balance the interests of so many diverse nations with differing needs, we can cut deals that prioritise the UK’s interests.
Probably not a good time to widen the debate as I have other work to do but, Brexit is not just about how we trade with other nations there are many other issues to do with being a member of the EU (some good some awful) that also drove the referendum outcome. |
Sure, but even the government ideologues have given up on claiming we'll be better off economically as their own analysis shows we will be worse off for 15 years at least. JRM was even saying a while back that it might take 50 years for us to see the benefits of Brexit. Brilliant, definitely sounds well worth it. |  |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:05 - Sep 17 with 3786 views | ElephantintheRoom |
I'm sure he's quaking in his boots.
What on earth makes you think the incompetent opportunist gives a monkey's about the conservative party? Or Brexit?
And come to think of it a monkey is probably more capable than most of the career politicians sitting in safe seats |  |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:05 - Sep 17 with 3785 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:58 - Sep 17 by Herbivore |
Sure, but even the government ideologues have given up on claiming we'll be better off economically as their own analysis shows we will be worse off for 15 years at least. JRM was even saying a while back that it might take 50 years for us to see the benefits of Brexit. Brilliant, definitely sounds well worth it. |
If you and Jacob are right ( which I don’t think you are by the way) then it is a better thing we do now for the benefit of the next generation.
Seriously doubt that they will thank me though😔 | | | |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:17 - Sep 17 with 3766 views | Herbivore |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:05 - Sep 17 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
If you and Jacob are right ( which I don’t think you are by the way) then it is a better thing we do now for the benefit of the next generation.
Seriously doubt that they will thank me though😔 |
I'm not sure why you think it's a good thing for future generations, particularly when you consider that most young people were in favour of remaining in the EU. I'd be surprised if we're not back in within 50 years rather than still being out and waiting for some hoped for benefit that never comes.
I'm interested as to why you think all those forecasting that Brexit will be bad for the economy in the short and medium term (possibly long term too) are wrong? What makes you so sure? Are you an economist and what modelling have you used to predict a more positive future for us? Even the prospect of leaving has damaged our economy, the pound has weakened and our economic growth has been slower than predicted since the referendum result. Indeed some analyses show that Brexit has already cost us more than our entire 47 years' of contributions to the EU, factoring in the economic hit combined with costs of preparations for leaving the EU. There's some debate over whether that's fully accurate but either way the number is eye watering. Staggering stuff really and hard to see how we'll recoup our losses. [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 16:36]
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:18 - Sep 17 with 3761 views | eireblue |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:05 - Sep 17 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
If you and Jacob are right ( which I don’t think you are by the way) then it is a better thing we do now for the benefit of the next generation.
Seriously doubt that they will thank me though😔 |
50 years is considered two generations.
Can you give me an example of a politician correctly predicting economic conditions 50 years into the future?
When ardent Brexiters say things like, it will all be fine in 15, 25, 50 years.
What they are really saying is, yep we fu*cked up, but please vote for us, honestly, give me another 20 years, and of course, but [insert demonic representation of current opposition leader here].
Do you remember when Tories used to say things like, well we can’t have a proper NHS/Army/Police/Social services etc, without a good economy.
Well, essentially, you now can’t have a decent NHS/Army/Police/Social Services, because you voted to leave the EU. |  | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:22 - Sep 17 with 3747 views | bournemouthblue |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 15:41 - Sep 17 by GeoffSentence |
I have one, and it is actually quite a pretty thing. Midnight blue I would say, very dark indeed. |
Aren't they made in France rather ironically? |  |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:25 - Sep 17 with 3740 views | ROKERITE |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:18 - Sep 17 by eireblue |
50 years is considered two generations.
Can you give me an example of a politician correctly predicting economic conditions 50 years into the future?
When ardent Brexiters say things like, it will all be fine in 15, 25, 50 years.
What they are really saying is, yep we fu*cked up, but please vote for us, honestly, give me another 20 years, and of course, but [insert demonic representation of current opposition leader here].
Do you remember when Tories used to say things like, well we can’t have a proper NHS/Army/Police/Social services etc, without a good economy.
Well, essentially, you now can’t have a decent NHS/Army/Police/Social Services, because you voted to leave the EU. |
Any minor damage to The UK economy will be trifling compared to the devastation caused by Covid-19 and the response to it. But even the damage done by Covid-19 and the response to it will be dwarfed by the destruction carrying on with the green revolution will cause. | | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:29 - Sep 17 with 3723 views | Herbivore |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:25 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
Any minor damage to The UK economy will be trifling compared to the devastation caused by Covid-19 and the response to it. But even the damage done by Covid-19 and the response to it will be dwarfed by the destruction carrying on with the green revolution will cause. |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:32 - Sep 17 with 3715 views | SpruceMoose |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:25 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
Any minor damage to The UK economy will be trifling compared to the devastation caused by Covid-19 and the response to it. But even the damage done by Covid-19 and the response to it will be dwarfed by the destruction carrying on with the green revolution will cause. |
Laugh?! I nearly soiled myself! |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:36 - Sep 17 with 3701 views | StokieBlue |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:25 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
Any minor damage to The UK economy will be trifling compared to the devastation caused by Covid-19 and the response to it. But even the damage done by Covid-19 and the response to it will be dwarfed by the destruction carrying on with the green revolution will cause. |
Can you outline this "destruction" and what elements of the "green revolution" are causing it?
SB | | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:36 - Sep 17 with 3699 views | Darth_Koont |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:25 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
Any minor damage to The UK economy will be trifling compared to the devastation caused by Covid-19 and the response to it. But even the damage done by Covid-19 and the response to it will be dwarfed by the destruction carrying on with the green revolution will cause. |
Minor
Trifling
Dwarfed
Vs.
Devastation
Destruction
Revolution
I’m guessing you’re also putting the threat of climate change itself in the top section. You don’t just have a Trumpian view of the world you’ve even got his whole extreme underplay/overplay spiel down to a tee. |  |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:40 - Sep 17 with 3691 views | Clapham_Junction |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:25 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
Any minor damage to The UK economy will be trifling compared to the devastation caused by Covid-19 and the response to it. But even the damage done by Covid-19 and the response to it will be dwarfed by the destruction carrying on with the green revolution will cause. |
So you're a climate change denier too.
Have you ever considered joining Ipswich Conservatives? You'd be a great fit. |  | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:43 - Sep 17 with 3683 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:18 - Sep 17 by eireblue |
50 years is considered two generations.
Can you give me an example of a politician correctly predicting economic conditions 50 years into the future?
When ardent Brexiters say things like, it will all be fine in 15, 25, 50 years.
What they are really saying is, yep we fu*cked up, but please vote for us, honestly, give me another 20 years, and of course, but [insert demonic representation of current opposition leader here].
Do you remember when Tories used to say things like, well we can’t have a proper NHS/Army/Police/Social services etc, without a good economy.
Well, essentially, you now can’t have a decent NHS/Army/Police/Social Services, because you voted to leave the EU. |
I’ll put you down as a maybe. | | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:45 - Sep 17 with 3676 views | ROKERITE |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:36 - Sep 17 by Darth_Koont |
Minor
Trifling
Dwarfed
Vs.
Devastation
Destruction
Revolution
I’m guessing you’re also putting the threat of climate change itself in the top section. You don’t just have a Trumpian view of the world you’ve even got his whole extreme underplay/overplay spiel down to a tee. |
I simply haven't swallowed the myth the green blob have been pushing. Their Emperor has no clothes.
Thirty years from now when your children and grandchildren are living miserable existences because politicians, eagerly egged on by their populaces, invested in things that sounded nice instead of things that worked you will realise how misguided you were. | | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:47 - Sep 17 with 3669 views | SpruceMoose |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:45 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
I simply haven't swallowed the myth the green blob have been pushing. Their Emperor has no clothes.
Thirty years from now when your children and grandchildren are living miserable existences because politicians, eagerly egged on by their populaces, invested in things that sounded nice instead of things that worked you will realise how misguided you were. |
Oh my. You made a little bit of wee come out!
So, just to be clear, climate science is leftist hoax to prevent people from having nice things? | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:52 - Sep 17 with 3663 views | ROKERITE |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:47 - Sep 17 by SpruceMoose |
Oh my. You made a little bit of wee come out!
So, just to be clear, climate science is leftist hoax to prevent people from having nice things? |
There is certainly a puritanism running right through the green movement. They like to control, as is hardly surprising because scratch a green and you'll normally find a red. The greens abhor freedom. | | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:52 - Sep 17 with 3661 views | SpruceMoose |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:52 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
There is certainly a puritanism running right through the green movement. They like to control, as is hardly surprising because scratch a green and you'll normally find a red. The greens abhor freedom. |
Ah I see. Not exactly what I asked though. Have another crack at answering more directly. A yes or no would do.
While we are at it, I guess the Earth is flat and the Moon landings were faked too! [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 16:53]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:52 - Sep 17 with 3660 views | StokieBlue |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:45 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
I simply haven't swallowed the myth the green blob have been pushing. Their Emperor has no clothes.
Thirty years from now when your children and grandchildren are living miserable existences because politicians, eagerly egged on by their populaces, invested in things that sounded nice instead of things that worked you will realise how misguided you were. |
Examples please.
What is being invested in that doesn't work and what should be invested in that does work.
As you're so sure you'll have no problem citing a few examples.
SB | | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:55 - Sep 17 with 3651 views | ROKERITE |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:52 - Sep 17 by SpruceMoose |
Ah I see. Not exactly what I asked though. Have another crack at answering more directly. A yes or no would do.
While we are at it, I guess the Earth is flat and the Moon landings were faked too! [Post edited 17 Sep 2020 16:53]
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We know the Earth is round because brave men stood against the received wisdom of the time, much like climate realists standing up to the green blob today. | | | |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:57 - Sep 17 with 3643 views | Herbivore |
| A Crisis of Conservatism on 16:45 - Sep 17 by ROKERITE |
I simply haven't swallowed the myth the green blob have been pushing. Their Emperor has no clothes.
Thirty years from now when your children and grandchildren are living miserable existences because politicians, eagerly egged on by their populaces, invested in things that sounded nice instead of things that worked you will realise how misguided you were. |
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