| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: 18:27 - Nov 22 with 5940 views | homer_123 |
Pfizer and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company paid $2.3bn to settle criminal and civil liabilities for illegal promotion of their pharmaceutical products. The amount included payment of more than $102m in civil settlement to six whistleblowers of the company’s fraudulent practices in 2009.
Bextra, an anti-inflammatory drug that was withdrawn from the market in 2005 due to safety concerns, was marketed by the company for various off-label uses. The company also illegally promoted several other drugs, including antipsychotic drug Geodon, antibiotic Zyvox, and anti-epileptic drug Lyrica. Healthcare providers received payments for prescribing these drugs to patients for off-label use.
False claims were submitted to government healthcare programmes, bypassing the insurance programmes. The company had to pay approximately $1bn to Medicare, Medicaid, and other government insurance programmes under the settlement.
EDIT: - I meant to edit last night but got sidetracked. All fair points based on the post as was therefore. Meant to explain why I posted. The reason I posted it was, in the main, me playing devils advocate with myself but out loud via the forum - I guess to see if anyone had these sorts of internal conversations....maybe it's just me!
"Having watched Dark Waters the other night - we shouldn't forget the hands in which we are placing our trust. I do think the vaccines will be good and I do think they will go through rigorous testing but I'm always keen to look at both sides.
There is 'so much' money riding on this for the companies involved in developing and rolling these vaccines out that we can't discount history completely." [Post edited 23 Nov 2020 13:56]
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:19 - Nov 22 with 1730 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 21:59 - Nov 22 by jeera |
I've been taking moderate zinc and iron this year I have to say.
I also take the odd Vitamin D when I remember this time of year but can't say it's religiously.
I had some deficiency [iron notably despite a decent diet] last year and was quite poorly for some time. |
Hope you are getting plenty of vit c to help with iron absorption. |  |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:20 - Nov 22 with 1730 views | J2BLUE |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:13 - Nov 22 by StokieBlue |
This is interesting though.
So it's within the safe limit for what we know now but that may change in the future (it won't but it's the same logic that is being applied to the vaccine by some posters).
SB |
Very true.
I can understand some concern about the vaccine but the AstraZeneca/Oxford one isn't even going to be produced for profit so they have little reason to push it forward. Even if Pfizer wanted to push theirs forward it obviously has to get through strict independent checks.
The most annoying argument has been "it takes 10 years to produce a vaccine" as if any less means it won't be safe. |  |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:25 - Nov 22 with 1726 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:09 - Nov 22 by StokieBlue |
Nobody is blindly accepted it. The Pfizer vaccine has been through all phases of the trials and had nearly 50,000 people take it. There have been no adverse reactions thus far.
That doesn't mean there won't be, there is always a chance but the risk at the moment is greater than 50,000 to 1. The risk from Covid for many people is far higher.
How will you decide accordingly if you don't have the slightest idea? Sooner or later you're either going to have accept what the experts say or outsource your risk to others which doesn't sit comfortably with me at all.
SB |
Which is why I am currently more likely to take it than not at present....I just won't be suing if it goes wrong down the line...what with being an anarchist responsible for my decisions and all! | |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:25 - Nov 22 with 1725 views | jeera |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:19 - Nov 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Hope you are getting plenty of vit c to help with iron absorption. |
Does cider count? |  |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:26 - Nov 22 with 1726 views | StokieBlue |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:20 - Nov 22 by J2BLUE |
Very true.
I can understand some concern about the vaccine but the AstraZeneca/Oxford one isn't even going to be produced for profit so they have little reason to push it forward. Even if Pfizer wanted to push theirs forward it obviously has to get through strict independent checks.
The most annoying argument has been "it takes 10 years to produce a vaccine" as if any less means it won't be safe. |
It's also not correct with regards to the vaccines that Pfizer and Moderna have produced. They have used mRNA to produce the vaccine which is very different to what has been done before and should actually be safer as it doesn't even involve using the whole virus (alive or dead).
A lot of vaccines are likely to be developed quicker now the technology is up and running. Perhaps some will have concerns about the technology but most things I have heard they seem to think it's made exactly like a measles vaccine and suchlike.
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:30 - Nov 22 with 1723 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:18 - Nov 22 by jeera |
But you keep pushing the 'following blindly' line.
If everyone took that approach then what?
Millions of kids dying of pox, don't you see?
Having spent much of my working life self-employed, I completely understand the can't afford to be ill sentiment! |
I do see, I just don't like the certainty that seems to come from one end of the argument...well, in fact either end. | |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:31 - Nov 22 with 1722 views | J2BLUE |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:17 - Nov 22 by BlueBadger |
I'm done ranting Jitters, the morons won in 2016, every win right now is just part of an orderly retreat. [Post edited 22 Nov 2020 22:22]
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Yea...sorry about that. | |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:32 - Nov 22 with 1717 views | jeera |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:30 - Nov 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I do see, I just don't like the certainty that seems to come from one end of the argument...well, in fact either end. |
Well you'll be ok anyway.
I'm sure where you live out your way you have the local equivalent of the Wise Woman or someone to turn to. | |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:42 - Nov 22 with 1707 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:32 - Nov 22 by jeera |
Well you'll be ok anyway.
I'm sure where you live out your way you have the local equivalent of the Wise Woman or someone to turn to. |
She likes to think so. | |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 23:10 - Nov 22 with 1673 views | BlueBadger |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 21:27 - Nov 22 by J2BLUE |
This was kind of what I was talking about Homer. No real point but just negativity for the sake of it. I don't get it.
Look back over your threads for the last few months. They are all negative. There's light at the end of this tunnel. The vaccines will go through every safety check. |
I see people talking about Thalidomide and contaminated blood in the 80's in reference to this a lot. Regulations and processes changed MASSIVELY(and in the case of blood, change ALL the time. It's an enormous ballache getting blood for transfusion from lab to patient, I can only imagine it's worse in reverse) in the wake of these two scandals which were, respectively, over 50 and 30 years ago. [Post edited 22 Nov 2020 23:33]
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 23:18 - Nov 22 with 1651 views | Ryorry |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:12 - Nov 22 by J2BLUE |
Nice. I've been taking 2-3 vitamin D* a day and one zinc as well as a multivitamin.
*well within the safe limit |
2-3 capsules, how many iu in each?
1,000iu is apparently the standard recommended max dose with advice on labels being to not exceed that.
However, I wasn't seeing any benefit after 2 years of taking that in capsule form, and found after considerable recent research that it's safe to take up to 3,000iu for at least a few weeks if you're deficient. So doubled my daily dose to 2,000iu about a week ago and am already finding I have heaps more energy than I did. |  |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 00:05 - Nov 23 with 1630 views | J2BLUE |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 23:18 - Nov 22 by Ryorry |
2-3 capsules, how many iu in each?
1,000iu is apparently the standard recommended max dose with advice on labels being to not exceed that.
However, I wasn't seeing any benefit after 2 years of taking that in capsule form, and found after considerable recent research that it's safe to take up to 3,000iu for at least a few weeks if you're deficient. So doubled my daily dose to 2,000iu about a week ago and am already finding I have heaps more energy than I did. |
1000 IU each tablet. I read 4000 was the max safe level but it seems to vary. When Dr John Campbell contacted Dr Fauci to see how much he was taking he replied 6000 IU!
I take 15 mg zinc which also has 60mg vitamin C in it and 3 vitamin D each day. Every few days i'll take a fourt vitamin D. I've got the whole family taking at least 2000IU vitamin D as well as the zinc. | |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 05:33 - Nov 23 with 1597 views | IPS_wich |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 23:10 - Nov 22 by BlueBadger |
I see people talking about Thalidomide and contaminated blood in the 80's in reference to this a lot. Regulations and processes changed MASSIVELY(and in the case of blood, change ALL the time. It's an enormous ballache getting blood for transfusion from lab to patient, I can only imagine it's worse in reverse) in the wake of these two scandals which were, respectively, over 50 and 30 years ago. [Post edited 22 Nov 2020 23:33]
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I stumbled into an anti-vaxer comments page at the weekend - my god it was depressing and I found myself just shouting at the phone.
As well as the thalidomide and contaminated blood, it was the 'how come that can't find a cure for cancer this quick'...argument that completely sh1t me up.
Just look at cancer stats outside of the nasty three (Liver, Lung, Pancreas) and see what impact medical research is having!!!
It was also the first time I saw the 'microchips in the vaccine' argument being propagated - which I had just assumed was just a couple of crackpots online. |  | | |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 07:29 - Nov 23 with 1554 views | bluelagos |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 22:30 - Nov 22 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I do see, I just don't like the certainty that seems to come from one end of the argument...well, in fact either end. |
Great quote and one that can be applied to many aspscts of CV such as whether we should / shouldn't lockdown etc. Those who are adamant we should / shouldn't lockdown are rarely well informed given there are very good reasons on both sides of the argument. |  |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 07:43 - Nov 23 with 1545 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 05:33 - Nov 23 by IPS_wich |
I stumbled into an anti-vaxer comments page at the weekend - my god it was depressing and I found myself just shouting at the phone.
As well as the thalidomide and contaminated blood, it was the 'how come that can't find a cure for cancer this quick'...argument that completely sh1t me up.
Just look at cancer stats outside of the nasty three (Liver, Lung, Pancreas) and see what impact medical research is having!!!
It was also the first time I saw the 'microchips in the vaccine' argument being propagated - which I had just assumed was just a couple of crackpots online. |
Comments like this
Go ahead and keep licking shopping trolleys [Post edited 23 Nov 2020 7:43]
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 07:54 - Nov 23 with 1536 views | IPS_wich |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 07:43 - Nov 23 by ElderGrizzly |
Comments like this
Go ahead and keep licking shopping trolleys [Post edited 23 Nov 2020 7:43]
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I don't mind darwin award candidates like this per se - it's better for the long term gene pool that they play Russian roulette with the virus.
It's more the crackpot conspiracy theorists that are the big issue for me - and those that want to call into question the motivations of the medical research community. My work brings me into contact with a lot of medical researchers and they are singularly the least money motivated group you could ever find. The idea that they are not finding a cure for cancer because it means they keep getting funded is really offensive. | | | |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 07:58 - Nov 23 with 1535 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 07:54 - Nov 23 by IPS_wich |
I don't mind darwin award candidates like this per se - it's better for the long term gene pool that they play Russian roulette with the virus.
It's more the crackpot conspiracy theorists that are the big issue for me - and those that want to call into question the motivations of the medical research community. My work brings me into contact with a lot of medical researchers and they are singularly the least money motivated group you could ever find. The idea that they are not finding a cure for cancer because it means they keep getting funded is really offensive. |
This account is clearly a bot too, which is a little more sinister.
Same tweet sent over 50 times in about 5 minutes to every new source reporting it with the same hashtag SayNoToVaccines | | | |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 08:01 - Nov 23 with 1526 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 20:56 - Nov 22 by GlasgowBlue |
In related news. This is very positive.
Bring it on. [Post edited 22 Nov 2020 20:57]
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And more good news.
We will have enough vaccine for everybody in the country. Just a matter of getting it done. Let’s hope they don’t put Chris Grayling in charge. |  |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 08:15 - Nov 23 with 1515 views | itfcjoe |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 07:54 - Nov 23 by IPS_wich |
I don't mind darwin award candidates like this per se - it's better for the long term gene pool that they play Russian roulette with the virus.
It's more the crackpot conspiracy theorists that are the big issue for me - and those that want to call into question the motivations of the medical research community. My work brings me into contact with a lot of medical researchers and they are singularly the least money motivated group you could ever find. The idea that they are not finding a cure for cancer because it means they keep getting funded is really offensive. |
I've mentioned it a few times on here, but there was an excellent BBC Podcast series called "How they made us doubt everything" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l7q1
Was in regards to how big business used the same tricks with regards to smoking, that are now being used with climate change, and the types of people they target - Poorly educated, white males - and how it now flows into religion.
Scientists debating PR men. The language of science with things like 'theory' being deliberately misinterpreted by the PR men and run with. A few scientists being paid massive retainers to sell their soul from think tanks.
It's the same that is happening here, but now so much easier to spread the misinformation via social media |  |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 08:45 - Nov 23 with 1499 views | IPS_wich |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 08:15 - Nov 23 by itfcjoe |
I've mentioned it a few times on here, but there was an excellent BBC Podcast series called "How they made us doubt everything" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000l7q1
Was in regards to how big business used the same tricks with regards to smoking, that are now being used with climate change, and the types of people they target - Poorly educated, white males - and how it now flows into religion.
Scientists debating PR men. The language of science with things like 'theory' being deliberately misinterpreted by the PR men and run with. A few scientists being paid massive retainers to sell their soul from think tanks.
It's the same that is happening here, but now so much easier to spread the misinformation via social media |
I'll have to take a look at that podcast.
Cards on the table, I'm a Management Consultant who for the last 16 years has specialised in the health sector. I've been headhunted a couple of times to move out of consulting into a health think tank but chose not to. The skill sets are similar (analysis, synthesis and forming recommendations for change) - but consulting tends to be more evidence driven whereas most think tanks are more agenda driven.
For many I'm talking shades of grey here - and I'm well aware that many have a disdain for consultants - but I can hand on heart say that I have never walked into a consulting project/engagement with a pre-determined outcome already in place. | | | |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 08:47 - Nov 23 with 1496 views | Herbivore |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 08:01 - Nov 23 by GlasgowBlue |
And more good news.
We will have enough vaccine for everybody in the country. Just a matter of getting it done. Let’s hope they don’t put Chris Grayling in charge. |
Pretty sure Serco have the expertise to deliver this for us. They've earned the chance to bagsy another several billions of pounds of public money. |  |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 08:50 - Nov 23 with 1490 views | itfcjoe |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 08:45 - Nov 23 by IPS_wich |
I'll have to take a look at that podcast.
Cards on the table, I'm a Management Consultant who for the last 16 years has specialised in the health sector. I've been headhunted a couple of times to move out of consulting into a health think tank but chose not to. The skill sets are similar (analysis, synthesis and forming recommendations for change) - but consulting tends to be more evidence driven whereas most think tanks are more agenda driven.
For many I'm talking shades of grey here - and I'm well aware that many have a disdain for consultants - but I can hand on heart say that I have never walked into a consulting project/engagement with a pre-determined outcome already in place. |
It's really worth a listen, only 8-10 episodes which are 15-20 minutes long so not a massive commitment.
Being in your field I think you'd find it really interesting, and it's just sad the lengths people will go to to deliberately make the world worse and put peoples health in danger | |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 13:59 - Nov 23 with 1428 views | StokieBlue |
Thanks for the edit and fully understand you meant to add more context to your original post :).
Once again, an example of one company (DuPont) being historically awful 15 years ago in a specific case doesn't mean that other companies are going to do the same with C19.
Also worth pointing out that some vaccines, such as the Oxford one, are being done at cost price as long as the WHO defines C19 as a pandemic and cost price forever for developing nations. They only stand to benefit longer term if it is a regular jab, much like flu. At that stage Oxford University will get 6% of ongoing royalties.
It's of course right to question things if the proper processes aren't followed, lets see if that's the case though.
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 14:29 - Nov 23 with 1411 views | J2BLUE |
Fair edit Homer. Nothing wrong with having a think about it.
Hopefully you'll join us for a nice stab in the arm though  | |
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| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 15:07 - Nov 23 with 1391 views | homer_123 |
| Pfizer...I just thought I'd share: on 14:29 - Nov 23 by J2BLUE |
Fair edit Homer. Nothing wrong with having a think about it.
Hopefully you'll join us for a nice stab in the arm though |
Aye! | |
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