| Vaccine priority List 10:21 - Dec 2 with 25862 views | itfcpaul |
Just been published and looks like the majority of us won't get it for months, maybe even after Spring at the earliest, looks like a long haul to get this vaccine to everyone, that's even if we can get 120 million that we need.....
And on a football note, please Mr. Lambert will you leave our club
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| Vaccine priority List on 08:51 - Dec 4 with 1037 views | footers |
| Vaccine priority List on 08:39 - Dec 4 by 26_Paz |
Much of that has been discussed at length in here so I will just respond to the underlying health conditions point. When I say serious underlying health conditions, I mean very serious ones that would have killed a person anyway. Just to use an example a relative of a work colleague was in hospital, very seriously ill, she caught corona in there and unfortunately died, her prognosis was not good anyway, she would have died within a few weeks regardless of corona. I would like to know how many cases like that there are.
When I say people with serious underlying health conditions I don’t mean a bit of asthma or a bit of diabetes, I mean people who know they have very limited time left before they catch the virus. Whilst these, of course, are extremely sad and should be accounted for I think it is somewhat misleading to categorise them as corona deaths, publish the numbers and stoke the fear. |
And there we have it.
How many people were basically going to die anyway because I want to justify going on a pub crawl.
Pathetic. |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 09:16 - Dec 4 with 1005 views | Herbivore |
| Vaccine priority List on 08:51 - Dec 4 by footers |
And there we have it.
How many people were basically going to die anyway because I want to justify going on a pub crawl.
Pathetic. |
It's pretty transparent and deeply unsavoury. Some of them might have died soon anyway so it doesn't really matter seems to be his attitude. Anything to justify his right to go to the pub and on holiday. |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 09:20 - Dec 4 with 998 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine priority List on 08:51 - Dec 4 by footers |
And there we have it.
How many people were basically going to die anyway because I want to justify going on a pub crawl.
Pathetic. |
I wonder if he might have a different opinion on all these things if he was in a higher risk group or had an underlying condition himself?
The posts seem to represent a very Pazcentric view of the universe.
Galileo wouldn't be happy.
SB |  | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 09:22 - Dec 4 with 994 views | footers |
| Vaccine priority List on 09:16 - Dec 4 by Herbivore |
It's pretty transparent and deeply unsavoury. Some of them might have died soon anyway so it doesn't really matter seems to be his attitude. Anything to justify his right to go to the pub and on holiday. |
Aye, it's been apparent all along and no faux concern or attempts at academic English can cover it up.
What many proper patriots like Paz seem to fail to grasp is that many of the people who he wants to condemn to an early grave were the ones who actually put their lives on the line for this country in its hour of greatest need. But of course you have to weigh their sacrifices with the need to go on holiday after a few months because you've been at home watching telly. | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 09:25 - Dec 4 with 989 views | footers |
| Vaccine priority List on 09:20 - Dec 4 by StokieBlue |
I wonder if he might have a different opinion on all these things if he was in a higher risk group or had an underlying condition himself?
The posts seem to represent a very Pazcentric view of the universe.
Galileo wouldn't be happy.
SB |
That's the other bit of it. He may very well have one or at least have a latent illness that he isn't aware of, like many others.
The effects of long covid will also be devastating for many families throughout the world. To dismiss all of this as a mild flu (as the S*n have done yet again this morning) is dangerous and completely stupid.
So many entitled and ignorant people about, it's hard to know what to say anymore. | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 09:26 - Dec 4 with 987 views | Herbivore |
| Vaccine priority List on 09:20 - Dec 4 by StokieBlue |
I wonder if he might have a different opinion on all these things if he was in a higher risk group or had an underlying condition himself?
The posts seem to represent a very Pazcentric view of the universe.
Galileo wouldn't be happy.
SB |
Indeed, Paz only cares about Paz. No empathy for the vulnerable, no real concern for oppressed groups. Paz wants to do what Paz wants to do and everyone else can burn as far as he's concerned. | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 10:49 - Dec 4 with 951 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine priority List on 09:22 - Dec 4 by footers |
Aye, it's been apparent all along and no faux concern or attempts at academic English can cover it up.
What many proper patriots like Paz seem to fail to grasp is that many of the people who he wants to condemn to an early grave were the ones who actually put their lives on the line for this country in its hour of greatest need. But of course you have to weigh their sacrifices with the need to go on holiday after a few months because you've been at home watching telly. |
You seem to have misunderstood the point I was making.
What I’m saying is that a number of the Covid deaths, and I’m not sure how large a number that is, were already ‘condemned to their grave’ regardless of corona virus. Therefore, it is misleading to include them in the the death figures.
As I said, I don’t know how large a number that is, but I would like to know. I think the public need to know in order for them to accurately judge the risk profile. |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 10:53 - Dec 4 with 949 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine priority List on 10:49 - Dec 4 by 26_Paz |
You seem to have misunderstood the point I was making.
What I’m saying is that a number of the Covid deaths, and I’m not sure how large a number that is, were already ‘condemned to their grave’ regardless of corona virus. Therefore, it is misleading to include them in the the death figures.
As I said, I don’t know how large a number that is, but I would like to know. I think the public need to know in order for them to accurately judge the risk profile. |
What you are actually saying is that you want the figures to be reported differently for C19 in order to make them look better.
If those people had died of flu in a normal year then that would have been recorded, why haven't you historically been calling for the way flu deaths in the "condemned to their grave" cohort have been reported.
It's just very inconsistent and that leads to people questioning the motives.
As for assessing the risk profile, surely the deaths should be recorded in the same way they have historically been recorded for all diseases and viruses otherwise you aren't comparing like-for-like.
SB | | | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 10:56 - Dec 4 with 944 views | footers |
| Vaccine priority List on 10:49 - Dec 4 by 26_Paz |
You seem to have misunderstood the point I was making.
What I’m saying is that a number of the Covid deaths, and I’m not sure how large a number that is, were already ‘condemned to their grave’ regardless of corona virus. Therefore, it is misleading to include them in the the death figures.
As I said, I don’t know how large a number that is, but I would like to know. I think the public need to know in order for them to accurately judge the risk profile. |
No, I haven't misunderstood anything. Once again you are seeking to downplay the seriousness of the pandemic to justify your frankly irresponsible and selfish behaviour.
Everyone deserves a right to a good quality of life, whether they are seriously or terminally ill or otherwise. That you seem to think they are disposable is disgusting. [Post edited 4 Dec 2020 10:57]
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| Vaccine priority List on 11:00 - Dec 4 with 930 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine priority List on 10:56 - Dec 4 by footers |
No, I haven't misunderstood anything. Once again you are seeking to downplay the seriousness of the pandemic to justify your frankly irresponsible and selfish behaviour.
Everyone deserves a right to a good quality of life, whether they are seriously or terminally ill or otherwise. That you seem to think they are disposable is disgusting. [Post edited 4 Dec 2020 10:57]
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You are putting words into my mouth. I have not said nor do I believe any of that. Of course everyone has a right to the highest quality of life possible and I’m not downplaying anything.
What I do believe is that the information I seek is very relevant to allow one to judge one’s risk profile.
Slightly off on a tangent but you mention quality of life, my personal opinion is that the quality of life of the 99% is something that has been almost entirely overlooked by those making decisions on this. | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 11:07 - Dec 4 with 919 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine priority List on 11:00 - Dec 4 by 26_Paz |
You are putting words into my mouth. I have not said nor do I believe any of that. Of course everyone has a right to the highest quality of life possible and I’m not downplaying anything.
What I do believe is that the information I seek is very relevant to allow one to judge one’s risk profile.
Slightly off on a tangent but you mention quality of life, my personal opinion is that the quality of life of the 99% is something that has been almost entirely overlooked by those making decisions on this. |
The counterpoint would be that if the restrictions had been a lot less stringent then the quality of life for many thousands of more people would be zero as they would be dead.
There is virtually no debate now, lockdowns put a stop to the exponential growth of C19. It's not ideal, everyone probably accepts that as well but it prevents a large number of deaths.
So once again it comes down to how many deaths you are willing to accept for your quality of life to be "normal" and you've previously said that "you can't put a price on freedom".
Surely you can see this isn't a position that a lot of people can accept?
SB | | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 11:50 - Dec 4 with 893 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine priority List on 11:07 - Dec 4 by StokieBlue |
The counterpoint would be that if the restrictions had been a lot less stringent then the quality of life for many thousands of more people would be zero as they would be dead.
There is virtually no debate now, lockdowns put a stop to the exponential growth of C19. It's not ideal, everyone probably accepts that as well but it prevents a large number of deaths.
So once again it comes down to how many deaths you are willing to accept for your quality of life to be "normal" and you've previously said that "you can't put a price on freedom".
Surely you can see this isn't a position that a lot of people can accept?
SB |
I accept it’s an extremely difficult balance to strike.
Hopefully the government defies its recent record of incompetence and gets this vaccine rolled out as quickly as possible then there won’t be a debate to have! | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 12:15 - Dec 4 with 875 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Vaccine priority List on 10:49 - Dec 4 by 26_Paz |
You seem to have misunderstood the point I was making.
What I’m saying is that a number of the Covid deaths, and I’m not sure how large a number that is, were already ‘condemned to their grave’ regardless of corona virus. Therefore, it is misleading to include them in the the death figures.
As I said, I don’t know how large a number that is, but I would like to know. I think the public need to know in order for them to accurately judge the risk profile. |
“Condemned to their graves” is a very distasteful choice of language Paz.
I look at it this way: My dear old mum was given months to live a few years ago. Now had she been run over by a bus then that would have been the cause of death. Not her terminal illness. It would have also ribbed her and our family the last couple of precious months we all had together.
Coronavirus has robbed many precious last months loved ones would have had with terminally ill family members. And it’s also an absolutely horrific way to die. Mostly without family members by their side for obvious reasons. |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 12:39 - Dec 4 with 847 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine priority List on 12:15 - Dec 4 by GlasgowBlue |
“Condemned to their graves” is a very distasteful choice of language Paz.
I look at it this way: My dear old mum was given months to live a few years ago. Now had she been run over by a bus then that would have been the cause of death. Not her terminal illness. It would have also ribbed her and our family the last couple of precious months we all had together.
Coronavirus has robbed many precious last months loved ones would have had with terminally ill family members. And it’s also an absolutely horrific way to die. Mostly without family members by their side for obvious reasons. |
Not my words mate. I was quoting footers | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 12:45 - Dec 4 with 843 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vaccine priority List on 08:02 - Dec 4 by 26_Paz |
How many of those had serious underlying health problems? How many happened to die of something else within 28 days of catching the rona? I would be keen to know the number of people who died solely due to Covid. |
Insulting.
Seeing as I'm leaving you alone these days I'll leave it to someone else to remind everyone that you're an awful fraction of a man. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vaccine priority List on 12:47 - Dec 4 with 832 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vaccine priority List on 10:53 - Dec 4 by StokieBlue |
What you are actually saying is that you want the figures to be reported differently for C19 in order to make them look better.
If those people had died of flu in a normal year then that would have been recorded, why haven't you historically been calling for the way flu deaths in the "condemned to their grave" cohort have been reported.
It's just very inconsistent and that leads to people questioning the motives.
As for assessing the risk profile, surely the deaths should be recorded in the same way they have historically been recorded for all diseases and viruses otherwise you aren't comparing like-for-like.
SB |
No wonder he's a Trump fan. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vaccine priority List on 12:56 - Dec 4 with 819 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine priority List on 12:45 - Dec 4 by SpruceMoose |
Insulting.
Seeing as I'm leaving you alone these days I'll leave it to someone else to remind everyone that you're an awful fraction of a man. |
Exactly who have I insulted in that statement? | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 13:06 - Dec 4 with 807 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vaccine priority List on 12:56 - Dec 4 by 26_Paz |
Exactly who have I insulted in that statement? |
I can't be arsed with you anymore. It's a waste of my time, like debating a seal who keeps on barking and clapping. It's all in your post. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vaccine priority List on 13:08 - Dec 4 with 802 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine priority List on 12:56 - Dec 4 by 26_Paz |
Exactly who have I insulted in that statement? |
This is like your "can't put a price on freedom" post, I am not sure you see it as insulting but it can be seen that way because it devalues the lives of others for the gain of yourself and others.
You've essentially said (when taken with the context of subsequent posts): "those people were going to die soon anyway so if it wasn't C19 it would be something else so we shouldn't be having the restrictions".
That implies that you don't really care if they don't get a few extra months of life with their families. Many could find that deeply insulting, especially people in that position.
If that's not your intention then you perhaps need to look at how you are formulating your thoughts in your posts.
SB | | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 13:13 - Dec 4 with 793 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Vaccine priority List on 08:51 - Dec 4 by footers |
And there we have it.
How many people were basically going to die anyway because I want to justify going on a pub crawl.
Pathetic. |
Is it a fair question if he doesn't want to go to the pub or on holiday? |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 13:14 - Dec 4 with 783 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine priority List on 13:08 - Dec 4 by StokieBlue |
This is like your "can't put a price on freedom" post, I am not sure you see it as insulting but it can be seen that way because it devalues the lives of others for the gain of yourself and others.
You've essentially said (when taken with the context of subsequent posts): "those people were going to die soon anyway so if it wasn't C19 it would be something else so we shouldn't be having the restrictions".
That implies that you don't really care if they don't get a few extra months of life with their families. Many could find that deeply insulting, especially people in that position.
If that's not your intention then you perhaps need to look at how you are formulating your thoughts in your posts.
SB |
I do care and obviously I wish that none of this was happening. I wish those people got those extra months of life and there were no need for restrictions. My point is a little more nuanced ... what I’m saying is that the balance between restrictions and where the trade off point in terms of acceptable numbers of deaths sits is very much dependent on how many of the deaths had serious underlying health conditions presenting an immediate threat to their life with or without Covid.
It’s an awful and deeply sensitive balance to find but that is the world we are living in. | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 13:25 - Dec 4 with 775 views | Herbivore |
| Vaccine priority List on 13:08 - Dec 4 by StokieBlue |
This is like your "can't put a price on freedom" post, I am not sure you see it as insulting but it can be seen that way because it devalues the lives of others for the gain of yourself and others.
You've essentially said (when taken with the context of subsequent posts): "those people were going to die soon anyway so if it wasn't C19 it would be something else so we shouldn't be having the restrictions".
That implies that you don't really care if they don't get a few extra months of life with their families. Many could find that deeply insulting, especially people in that position.
If that's not your intention then you perhaps need to look at how you are formulating your thoughts in your posts.
SB |
I make you right. Paz will try to deny it, of course, and claim that he does care really, but it's pretty apparent that he doesn't. Paz cares about Paz. | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 13:26 - Dec 4 with 769 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine priority List on 13:25 - Dec 4 by Herbivore |
I make you right. Paz will try to deny it, of course, and claim that he does care really, but it's pretty apparent that he doesn't. Paz cares about Paz. |
You’re obviously not reading what I’m writing. Stokie is engaging in a conversation. You are jumping on the let’s all bash Paz bandwagon. [Post edited 4 Dec 2020 13:27]
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| Vaccine priority List on 13:37 - Dec 4 with 762 views | SpruceMoose |
| Vaccine priority List on 13:26 - Dec 4 by 26_Paz |
You’re obviously not reading what I’m writing. Stokie is engaging in a conversation. You are jumping on the let’s all bash Paz bandwagon. [Post edited 4 Dec 2020 13:27]
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Classic Paz defence. Don't judge me on what I say, judge me on how polite I am.
Unfortunately for you, people are quite capable of reading your posts and digesting their content. Stokie has skewered you here I'm afraid. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Vaccine priority List on 13:49 - Dec 4 with 746 views | 26_Paz |
| Vaccine priority List on 13:37 - Dec 4 by SpruceMoose |
Classic Paz defence. Don't judge me on what I say, judge me on how polite I am.
Unfortunately for you, people are quite capable of reading your posts and digesting their content. Stokie has skewered you here I'm afraid. |
He has made his points and made them very well. I look at things slightly different to him but applaud the way he has made his points. It’s not a case of one poster looking to ‘skewer’ another. It’s an exchange of views, that’s what a forum should be. | |
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