| Vaccine priority List 10:21 - Dec 2 with 25860 views | itfcpaul |
Just been published and looks like the majority of us won't get it for months, maybe even after Spring at the earliest, looks like a long haul to get this vaccine to everyone, that's even if we can get 120 million that we need.....
And on a football note, please Mr. Lambert will you leave our club
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| Vaccine priority List on 15:33 - Dec 2 with 2994 views | itfcpaul |
| Vaccine priority List on 14:57 - Dec 2 by DebsyAngel |
Wow! I am impressed! Almost like a family friend to you!
Yes we saw the Electronica band last year at the Corn Exchange and I wanted to dance, but the bouncers there sent everyone back to their seats, which didn't impress Midge much. I was getting pretty enthusiastic when they did any songs off the Visage album - and was stone cold sober too as only come off a failed course of antidepressants the night before!
Saw OMD at the Regent last year, they were terrific, and met MIG15, the support band at the interval, with Andy McClusky's son, such nice guys. Also saw Heaven 17 and Squeeze at the same venue and enjoyed that.
Would LOVE to see Gary Numan and Kraftwerk at some point in my life. Sorry to hear about what happened with your poor wife at the latter's gig though. |
looks like we have very similar tastes! which I could send you a pic of our first dance just after I called Midge a name for telling me we were doing it to him live!
was a track called Breathe. check it out if you don't know it
7 months later my wife had a stroke which has changed our lives completely | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 15:56 - Dec 2 with 2975 views | itfcpaul |
| Vaccine priority List on 15:16 - Dec 2 by Ace_High1 |
Wash your mouth out, JVT is a man of honour! |
I think I said that earlier he is the only one I trust | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 16:29 - Dec 2 with 2950 views | GeoffSentence |
| Vaccine priority List on 13:01 - Dec 2 by itfcpaul |
Can someone tell me why my original post was edited please? |
Usually it is just a change of category, moving from footy to general. Might be that. |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 16:30 - Dec 2 with 2948 views | factual_blue |
| Vaccine priority List on 14:30 - Dec 2 by Ryorry |
Wish I'd had a quid for every time in my life I'd said
"It all boils down to education in the end". |
....because you'd have £5? |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 16:30 - Dec 2 with 2946 views | itfcpaul |
| Vaccine priority List on 16:29 - Dec 2 by GeoffSentence |
Usually it is just a change of category, moving from footy to general. Might be that. |
Cheers | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 16:35 - Dec 2 with 2937 views | DebsyAngel |
| Vaccine priority List on 15:33 - Dec 2 by itfcpaul |
looks like we have very similar tastes! which I could send you a pic of our first dance just after I called Midge a name for telling me we were doing it to him live!
was a track called Breathe. check it out if you don't know it
7 months later my wife had a stroke which has changed our lives completely |
I would love to see that photo. I am so sorry about your wife. When I got married in May 2018, I was fairly well but I have gone downhill since March 2019. I will look up that song later on! |  | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 16:36 - Dec 2 with 2934 views | itfcpaul |
| Vaccine priority List on 16:35 - Dec 2 by DebsyAngel |
I would love to see that photo. I am so sorry about your wife. When I got married in May 2018, I was fairly well but I have gone downhill since March 2019. I will look up that song later on! |
if you can let me know a way to get it to you I will, PM me if you prefer | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 17:06 - Dec 2 with 2911 views | DinDjarin |
| Vaccine priority List on 14:34 - Dec 2 by JammyDodgerrr |
Children going to be so far at the back of the queue by the time they get it, it may well be beyond 2021 so there well be documented tests on how it affects children if it does. Those tests are now beginning.
Also, as Elder says - completely different and you can't compare the two. There is so much greater regulation on these things now. [Post edited 2 Dec 2020 14:35]
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I am no anti vaccine conspiracy theorist and my kids have just had their yearly flu jabs as they do every year. No problem.
A friend of a friends child was affected by the last rushed through vaccine for swine flu which has now resulted in the government paying out thousands in compensation for ruined lives.
People say things are different now but are they? That was only 11 years ago.
Hence my caution.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-vaccine-pandemic-swine-flu |  | | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 17:09 - Dec 2 with 2901 views | wkj |
I must admit I am pleased with this. Frontline health and social care workers. I am a bit miffed my mother having chronic rheumatoid arthritis and in a vulnerable age band isn't going to get bumped up, but its not a tragic situation by any means. |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 17:18 - Dec 2 with 2873 views | Ace_High1 |
| Vaccine priority List on 15:56 - Dec 2 by itfcpaul |
I think I said that earlier he is the only one I trust |
Man of the year.
Glad to hear the train is now stopping in the station as well. |  | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 17:20 - Dec 2 with 2881 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine priority List on 17:06 - Dec 2 by DinDjarin |
I am no anti vaccine conspiracy theorist and my kids have just had their yearly flu jabs as they do every year. No problem.
A friend of a friends child was affected by the last rushed through vaccine for swine flu which has now resulted in the government paying out thousands in compensation for ruined lives.
People say things are different now but are they? That was only 11 years ago.
Hence my caution.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-vaccine-pandemic-swine-flu |
That is obviously horrible for the people involved.
Once again a few caveats to your post though.
- Studies of the issues you have highlighted showed a 1 in 55,000 chance of the risk of narcolepsy in children (no effects in adults). Obviously this is not good but saying 1800 cases without giving the denominator isn't helpful.
- None of the 3 vaccines thus far use an adjuvant which was the cause of problems with the swine flu vaccine I believe.
- The total of people affected from your article is the same number of deaths as 2 or 3 bad days of C19.
You are of course right that every effort should be made to ensure the vaccines are safe, I don't think anyone would argue with that.
I do however feel there needs to be some context around your posts. Just posting that link only tells a tiny part of the story and it's also once again, not an equivalence.
SB |  | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 17:32 - Dec 2 with 2865 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Vaccine priority List on 17:20 - Dec 2 by StokieBlue |
That is obviously horrible for the people involved.
Once again a few caveats to your post though.
- Studies of the issues you have highlighted showed a 1 in 55,000 chance of the risk of narcolepsy in children (no effects in adults). Obviously this is not good but saying 1800 cases without giving the denominator isn't helpful.
- None of the 3 vaccines thus far use an adjuvant which was the cause of problems with the swine flu vaccine I believe.
- The total of people affected from your article is the same number of deaths as 2 or 3 bad days of C19.
You are of course right that every effort should be made to ensure the vaccines are safe, I don't think anyone would argue with that.
I do however feel there needs to be some context around your posts. Just posting that link only tells a tiny part of the story and it's also once again, not an equivalence.
SB |
"More than 100 people are believed to have taken legal action against GSK and the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC). The cases have been settled with confidentiality clauses so its not known what the true cost has been.
Even further back in history the fear of a pandemic swine flu in 1976 prompted a rushed vaccination of millions of Americans with hundreds later reporting symptoms of Guillain-Barre syndrome, a rare disorder that can cause paralysis and even death.
Now the DHSC is again faced with a pandemic virus that threatens our way of life. But rather than learn the lessons of history and provide the public with assurance on how side effects will be handled and the support and compensation that will be available, ministers are instead looking to give pharmaceutical companies immunity from legal action.
This is not necessary unless the aim is to prevent the small number of people who may develop side-effects from being able to get justice through the courts. The government could, as it did with Pandemrix, indemnify the companies from any future claims. That would leave taxpayers liable to pay out in the event of a problem. Perhaps this is what lies behind the immunity proposal.
The announcement on Friday failed to mention whether the government would include any Covid-19 vaccine in the Vaccine Damages Payment scheme, which pays out £120,000 to people who are disabled as a result of a vaccine."
In relation to that last bit do you know if it has been included? |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 17:35 - Dec 2 with 2863 views | BlueBadger |
| Vaccine priority List on 13:33 - Dec 2 by Vic |
You youngsters don’t need it! Most of the time you don’t get symptoms even if you get it. The gov have got it entirely right - protect the vulnerable with the vaccine and let the rest get herd immunity.
If I was under 30 I’m not sure I’d have it anyway - sure testing has been rigorous, but can it be rigorous enough in 10 months? I’m not so sure. I dodged a bullet on thalidomide, I wouldn’t risk a new drug on my own children. |
Well, 'young people' will still be capable of passing it on the unvaccinated and vulnerable... |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 17:36 - Dec 2 with 2859 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine priority List on 17:32 - Dec 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"More than 100 people are believed to have taken legal action against GSK and the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC). The cases have been settled with confidentiality clauses so its not known what the true cost has been.
Even further back in history the fear of a pandemic swine flu in 1976 prompted a rushed vaccination of millions of Americans with hundreds later reporting symptoms of Guillain-Barre syndrome, a rare disorder that can cause paralysis and even death.
Now the DHSC is again faced with a pandemic virus that threatens our way of life. But rather than learn the lessons of history and provide the public with assurance on how side effects will be handled and the support and compensation that will be available, ministers are instead looking to give pharmaceutical companies immunity from legal action.
This is not necessary unless the aim is to prevent the small number of people who may develop side-effects from being able to get justice through the courts. The government could, as it did with Pandemrix, indemnify the companies from any future claims. That would leave taxpayers liable to pay out in the event of a problem. Perhaps this is what lies behind the immunity proposal.
The announcement on Friday failed to mention whether the government would include any Covid-19 vaccine in the Vaccine Damages Payment scheme, which pays out £120,000 to people who are disabled as a result of a vaccine."
In relation to that last bit do you know if it has been included? |
No, I don't I'm afraid.
Perhaps you can look into it and let us know?
SB | | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 17:56 - Dec 2 with 2833 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Vaccine priority List on 17:36 - Dec 2 by StokieBlue |
No, I don't I'm afraid.
Perhaps you can look into it and let us know?
SB |
If it does it looks like it is capped at £120,000 and is extremely hard to get.
https://www.leighday.co.uk/Blog/November-2020/Moderna-reports-that-its-COVID-vac
The Vaccine Damages Payment Act 1979Â (VDPA 1979), currently covers adverse reactions to vaccines. It was intended as a temporary measure, but unfortunately it has become permanent law. Â Our experience shows us that payment under the VDPA does not meet the needs of people who suffer severe disablement as a result of taking a vaccine. Â The Scheme requires the person harmed to prove that they have suffered ‘severe disablement’. However the VDPA does not make any provision for legal costs or support to be provided to establish the same, often leaving people not only injured but also without access to the scheme that was intended to help them.
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| Vaccine priority List on 18:05 - Dec 2 with 2826 views | Harry_Palmer |
| Vaccine priority List on 17:20 - Dec 2 by StokieBlue |
That is obviously horrible for the people involved.
Once again a few caveats to your post though.
- Studies of the issues you have highlighted showed a 1 in 55,000 chance of the risk of narcolepsy in children (no effects in adults). Obviously this is not good but saying 1800 cases without giving the denominator isn't helpful.
- None of the 3 vaccines thus far use an adjuvant which was the cause of problems with the swine flu vaccine I believe.
- The total of people affected from your article is the same number of deaths as 2 or 3 bad days of C19.
You are of course right that every effort should be made to ensure the vaccines are safe, I don't think anyone would argue with that.
I do however feel there needs to be some context around your posts. Just posting that link only tells a tiny part of the story and it's also once again, not an equivalence.
SB |
It is not correct that adults were not effected by Narcolepsy as a result of the swine flu vaccine. I posted the below article the other day and it drew little attention when in my opinion it should have, as the treatment these NHS workers received from their employer and the UK Government was appalling.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-va
It is clear that NHS staff at the time were put under pressure to take the vaccine and were not given the right information to give proper informed consent.
I really hope that lessons have been learned and that history does not repeat with the C19 vaccines. People will rightly point to the article stating that the usual testing was not carried out on the pandemrix vaccine and that it has been this time, however this part of the article should really sound as something of a warning -
"Salisbury told BuzzFeed News he believed a normal clinical trial would have been too small to pick up the problems with Pandemrix. “Given its rarity, any excess risk could only be detected after huge population exposure done through post-marketing surveillance,”
Regardless of what anybody says there is an experimental element to all of the c19 vaccines as none of them have more than a few months of data and cannot provide any safety guarantees regarding potential long term effects.
If I have misunderstood your meaning ( no effects in adults ) then apologies but I believe that is what you were saying. |  | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 19:11 - Dec 2 with 2795 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine priority List on 18:05 - Dec 2 by Harry_Palmer |
It is not correct that adults were not effected by Narcolepsy as a result of the swine flu vaccine. I posted the below article the other day and it drew little attention when in my opinion it should have, as the treatment these NHS workers received from their employer and the UK Government was appalling.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-va
It is clear that NHS staff at the time were put under pressure to take the vaccine and were not given the right information to give proper informed consent.
I really hope that lessons have been learned and that history does not repeat with the C19 vaccines. People will rightly point to the article stating that the usual testing was not carried out on the pandemrix vaccine and that it has been this time, however this part of the article should really sound as something of a warning -
"Salisbury told BuzzFeed News he believed a normal clinical trial would have been too small to pick up the problems with Pandemrix. “Given its rarity, any excess risk could only be detected after huge population exposure done through post-marketing surveillance,”
Regardless of what anybody says there is an experimental element to all of the c19 vaccines as none of them have more than a few months of data and cannot provide any safety guarantees regarding potential long term effects.
If I have misunderstood your meaning ( no effects in adults ) then apologies but I believe that is what you were saying. |
No, your interpretation was correct, I wasn't aware of the dozen or so cases you've highlighted.
Once again though, context is key here. Many millions were vaccinated and the article you've sourced says "around 1000 were affected" which is awful but a tiny proportion and that needs to be highlighted just as much as the bad cases.
For further context it's less people who got narcolepsy than have did in the UK in 2 days with C19. It was another 650 deaths today I believe. Once again, it's horrible for the people who had the side-effects and it's right to mention them but it's also right to quantify the numbers with context.
Your quote also points out that the side-effects are so infrequent (less than 1 in 55,000 at a minimum) that they wouldn't have even been picked up by a stage 3 trial so what should have been done differently with regards to C19 stage 3 trials?
What do you want to happen? Wait one or two years to see any long-term issues that may occur in 1 in 100,000? Covid and long-Covid will have run riot by then. It's not a perfect situation so I would honestly like to hear your thoughts on what should happen.
SB [Post edited 2 Dec 2020 19:12]
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| Vaccine priority List on 06:43 - Dec 3 with 2715 views | JammyDodgerrr |
| Vaccine priority List on 18:05 - Dec 2 by Harry_Palmer |
It is not correct that adults were not effected by Narcolepsy as a result of the swine flu vaccine. I posted the below article the other day and it drew little attention when in my opinion it should have, as the treatment these NHS workers received from their employer and the UK Government was appalling.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-va
It is clear that NHS staff at the time were put under pressure to take the vaccine and were not given the right information to give proper informed consent.
I really hope that lessons have been learned and that history does not repeat with the C19 vaccines. People will rightly point to the article stating that the usual testing was not carried out on the pandemrix vaccine and that it has been this time, however this part of the article should really sound as something of a warning -
"Salisbury told BuzzFeed News he believed a normal clinical trial would have been too small to pick up the problems with Pandemrix. “Given its rarity, any excess risk could only be detected after huge population exposure done through post-marketing surveillance,”
Regardless of what anybody says there is an experimental element to all of the c19 vaccines as none of them have more than a few months of data and cannot provide any safety guarantees regarding potential long term effects.
If I have misunderstood your meaning ( no effects in adults ) then apologies but I believe that is what you were saying. |
Even from that article - it states really early on that the swine flu vaccine was rushed through without normal clinical trials. That has not happened with Covid, they have all done the correct procedure.
Edit: think I have quoted your post but answered someone else's question. It's still early! [Post edited 3 Dec 2020 6:45]
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| Vaccine priority List on 07:41 - Dec 3 with 2700 views | 26_Paz |
The next debate is going to be around at what point in that list restrictions can be eased. I’m guessing it will be a gradual easing as the more vulnerable are immunised. I for one will be calling for an absolute restoration of all liberties by the time they reach point 7 in the table in the OP. By that point pretty much all of those susceptible to corona virus will be immune. |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 07:50 - Dec 3 with 2697 views | mikeybloo88 |
I would have thought that tier3 higher infection areas should be getting the vaccine first as vulnerable people in those areas are surely more at risk than in lower infection areas. Also to try and relieve the pressure on those most over stretched NHS systems and to try and get their local economies at least running on a par with the rest of the country. I know the numbers will fluctuate and some of today's tier 2 might be New Years tier 3, but seems to me targeting initially where the infection is worst makes sense. I'd also add that if education is the absolute priority of the government, then those teachers, lecturers and support staff charged with making that happen should be up there just behind NHS workers in the queue. |  | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 07:52 - Dec 3 with 2692 views | StokieBlue |
| Vaccine priority List on 18:05 - Dec 2 by Harry_Palmer |
It is not correct that adults were not effected by Narcolepsy as a result of the swine flu vaccine. I posted the below article the other day and it drew little attention when in my opinion it should have, as the treatment these NHS workers received from their employer and the UK Government was appalling.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-va
It is clear that NHS staff at the time were put under pressure to take the vaccine and were not given the right information to give proper informed consent.
I really hope that lessons have been learned and that history does not repeat with the C19 vaccines. People will rightly point to the article stating that the usual testing was not carried out on the pandemrix vaccine and that it has been this time, however this part of the article should really sound as something of a warning -
"Salisbury told BuzzFeed News he believed a normal clinical trial would have been too small to pick up the problems with Pandemrix. “Given its rarity, any excess risk could only be detected after huge population exposure done through post-marketing surveillance,”
Regardless of what anybody says there is an experimental element to all of the c19 vaccines as none of them have more than a few months of data and cannot provide any safety guarantees regarding potential long term effects.
If I have misunderstood your meaning ( no effects in adults ) then apologies but I believe that is what you were saying. |
To add some more context to the numbers, 2600 people died in the US of C19 just yesterday.
That's a lot higher than any of the numbers in your sources for the entire vaccination program for swine flu (and those weren't deaths but still obviously life changing).
SB | | | |
| Vaccine priority List on 08:06 - Dec 3 with 2674 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Vaccine priority List on 07:52 - Dec 3 by StokieBlue |
To add some more context to the numbers, 2600 people died in the US of C19 just yesterday.
That's a lot higher than any of the numbers in your sources for the entire vaccination program for swine flu (and those weren't deaths but still obviously life changing).
SB |
The number hospitalised in US also rose to over 100,000 for the first time. Fortunately, in percentage terms, fewer of those admitted are dieing. |  |
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| Vaccine priority List on 08:19 - Dec 3 with 2653 views | Herbivore |
| Vaccine priority List on 18:05 - Dec 2 by Harry_Palmer |
It is not correct that adults were not effected by Narcolepsy as a result of the swine flu vaccine. I posted the below article the other day and it drew little attention when in my opinion it should have, as the treatment these NHS workers received from their employer and the UK Government was appalling.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/shaunlintern/these-nhs-staff-were-told-the-swine-flu-va
It is clear that NHS staff at the time were put under pressure to take the vaccine and were not given the right information to give proper informed consent.
I really hope that lessons have been learned and that history does not repeat with the C19 vaccines. People will rightly point to the article stating that the usual testing was not carried out on the pandemrix vaccine and that it has been this time, however this part of the article should really sound as something of a warning -
"Salisbury told BuzzFeed News he believed a normal clinical trial would have been too small to pick up the problems with Pandemrix. “Given its rarity, any excess risk could only be detected after huge population exposure done through post-marketing surveillance,”
Regardless of what anybody says there is an experimental element to all of the c19 vaccines as none of them have more than a few months of data and cannot provide any safety guarantees regarding potential long term effects.
If I have misunderstood your meaning ( no effects in adults ) then apologies but I believe that is what you were saying. |
The article also says that Salisbury was responsible for telling everyone the vaccine had been properly and thoroughly tested, so I'd question whether we should believe him when he says that extensive stage 3 trials wouldn't have picked up on the issue. Let's be honest, he has some skin in the game here and a reason to downplay the significance of not going through proper testing.
Anyone suffering ill effects following a vaccine is of course a tragedy, but the risks are very, very small and are incomparable to the number of lives that would be affected if we didn't have mass vaccination. [Post edited 3 Dec 2020 9:47]
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| Vaccine priority List on 09:44 - Dec 3 with 2602 views | itfcpaul |
| Vaccine priority List on 06:43 - Dec 3 by JammyDodgerrr |
Even from that article - it states really early on that the swine flu vaccine was rushed through without normal clinical trials. That has not happened with Covid, they have all done the correct procedure.
Edit: think I have quoted your post but answered someone else's question. It's still early! [Post edited 3 Dec 2020 6:45]
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Not according to the EU and US we haven't............ | |
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| Vaccine priority List on 10:18 - Dec 3 with 2592 views | itfcpaul |
| Vaccine priority List on 13:34 - Dec 2 by itfcpaul |
See what JVT says tonight in the Govt Fibathon......
There best one recently has been the day when cases dropped by around 11k but what they didn't say was they the number of tests carried out had dropped from 398k to 212k, no wonder they didn't find as many |
JVT was awesome again last night, upset Boris with his openness again, extremely refreshing
The roll out of this is months away so don't hold your breath for it, and looks like both EU and US are indicating we didn't approve it in the most careful manner | |
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