| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use 22:35 - Dec 8 with 4478 views | Simon68 |
Ok, so the club have allocated Saturdays 2000 tickets and yes I missed out but surely they could have rewarded loyal supporters better.
Surely the first 2000 tickets could have been allocated based on how long each season ticket holder has been a season ticket holder, that way giving the first “historical” match back in front of a home crowd to those of us who have had ST’s for years.
Why should Joe Bloggs down the road who got his first ever season ticket in August this year have a ticket for Saturday whilst those of us who have had season tickets 20 years plus miss out.
The club missed a chance to repair some of the damage between them and us loyal supporters in my opinion.
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:48 - Dec 8 with 1887 views | J2BLUE |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:46 - Dec 8 by DublinBlue84 |
You're making the assumption that everyone is in every ballot, they're not going to be which is where it starts to become tricky.
For example I cannot make the two home games after Portsmouth, which means that by the time I get to see my first game, it will be the second game of some people.
If I go to the back of the queue at that point, as I attended that game, I'm effectively being treated the same as someone who has seen two games who also attended that game, whereas in reality I'd argue I should be ahead of them as I've attended less games. |
I see your point but if it was normal times you wouldn't be able to attend anyway right? So not sure people can argue that point if they are choosing not to attend. Would be a nightmare to sort out for the club. |  |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:53 - Dec 8 with 1887 views | pelles321 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:32 - Dec 8 by DublinBlue84 |
Yes, but the problem with doing it in cycles is it just looks at when the last time someone attended a game was, rather than how many games that person has actually attended.
EG for a ballot for say game 9:
Person A attends games 1, 3 and 7 having entered all ballots.
Person B attends games 4 and 8 as they couldn't make some of other games.
In a cycle system person A has preference over person B despite having attended more games than person A, whereas a system that is based on giving preference to those who have attended the least games give preference to person B. |
That’s numberwang! |  | | |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:56 - Dec 8 with 1877 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:48 - Dec 8 by J2BLUE |
I see your point but if it was normal times you wouldn't be able to attend anyway right? So not sure people can argue that point if they are choosing not to attend. Would be a nightmare to sort out for the club. |
My absence for the Burton game is directly related to the impact that COVID has on my day job and the fact that I would only be able to arrive just before kick-off so wouldn't be able to make any set times for entry into the stadium.
It's not really a nightmare to sort out and is easier really, when allocating tickets you work your way up from the people who have attended the least games so far. | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:57 - Dec 8 with 1873 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:53 - Dec 8 by pelles321 |
That’s numberwang! |
Yep, you can tell I've been doing this kind of thing during COVID for rotas of students to make sure everyone gets a fair share, can't you! | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 00:16 - Dec 9 with 1858 views | J2BLUE |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:56 - Dec 8 by DublinBlue84 |
My absence for the Burton game is directly related to the impact that COVID has on my day job and the fact that I would only be able to arrive just before kick-off so wouldn't be able to make any set times for entry into the stadium.
It's not really a nightmare to sort out and is easier really, when allocating tickets you work your way up from the people who have attended the least games so far. |
Might be worth sending an email telling the club your circumstances and see if they can help then.
Good luck. | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 08:20 - Dec 9 with 1803 views | itfcjoe |
I think in this instance it would be wrong to do it that way, as otherwise the same people would get tickets to every game over the next few games which isn't fair.
I do think there should be a better loyalty system for away games etc to cover those games with limited allocations. My mates who support other clubs have systems where you get loyalty points for STs, away games over a rolling multi year period.
When an away game goes on sale, it is set at a loyalty level that there are enough people to get tickets - i.e. allocation of 1,000 and only people with 350 loyalty points can apply in first instance.
Allows the fans that do go home and away to not be knocked down the queuw just because some one has bought a gold card |  |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 08:24 - Dec 9 with 1795 views | itfcjoe |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 23:32 - Dec 8 by DublinBlue84 |
Yes, but the problem with doing it in cycles is it just looks at when the last time someone attended a game was, rather than how many games that person has actually attended.
EG for a ballot for say game 9:
Person A attends games 1, 3 and 7 having entered all ballots.
Person B attends games 4 and 8 as they couldn't make some of other games.
In a cycle system person A has preference over person B despite having attended more games than person A, whereas a system that is based on giving preference to those who have attended the least games give preference to person B. |
But that also allows someone to be able to pick which games they want, i.e. if getting to the end of the season and a title decider coming up (unlikely I know) they could not apply for a couple of penultimate games to allow themselves to guarantee to get the last one etc.
It's not going to be easy to sort, hopefully we will soon be able to get 4k in to help things | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 08:45 - Dec 9 with 1770 views | jayessess |
I say we allocate by decibel test. The louder you are, the more tickets you get. |  |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 08:55 - Dec 9 with 1752 views | 26_Paz |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 22:51 - Dec 8 by danose |
how many people realistically got a season ticket for the first time this season? of all the seasons! |
Very, very few if any I would imagine! |  |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:09 - Dec 9 with 1738 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 08:20 - Dec 9 by itfcjoe |
I think in this instance it would be wrong to do it that way, as otherwise the same people would get tickets to every game over the next few games which isn't fair.
I do think there should be a better loyalty system for away games etc to cover those games with limited allocations. My mates who support other clubs have systems where you get loyalty points for STs, away games over a rolling multi year period.
When an away game goes on sale, it is set at a loyalty level that there are enough people to get tickets - i.e. allocation of 1,000 and only people with 350 loyalty points can apply in first instance.
Allows the fans that do go home and away to not be knocked down the queuw just because some one has bought a gold card |
"I think in this instance it would be wrong to do it that way, as otherwise the same people would get tickets to every game over the next few games which isn't fair."
Fairness should not be judged on how many games you've attended over the short term though, it should be judged based on how many games overall.
The other way doesn't balance it out at all and means those who cannot attend certain games are effectively punished for it.Personally I think it's abhorent you would suggest that ensuring the system is 'fair' over a short term is more important than ensuring it is fair over the course of the season.
If someone has for example been to three games and someone else has been to two, then if the system gives preference to the person who has attended three because they attended a game less recently than the person that attended two, and that continues over the rest of the season you're going to end up with some fans who may have attended twice as many games as others.
Interesting though that you criticise a system based on games attended rather than last game attended for the ballot though but then argue for away games to be based on games attended rather than last game attended. | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:09 - Dec 9 with 1731 views | BiGDonnie |
Ageist. |  |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:25 - Dec 9 with 1706 views | Jon_456 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:09 - Dec 9 by DublinBlue84 |
"I think in this instance it would be wrong to do it that way, as otherwise the same people would get tickets to every game over the next few games which isn't fair."
Fairness should not be judged on how many games you've attended over the short term though, it should be judged based on how many games overall.
The other way doesn't balance it out at all and means those who cannot attend certain games are effectively punished for it.Personally I think it's abhorent you would suggest that ensuring the system is 'fair' over a short term is more important than ensuring it is fair over the course of the season.
If someone has for example been to three games and someone else has been to two, then if the system gives preference to the person who has attended three because they attended a game less recently than the person that attended two, and that continues over the rest of the season you're going to end up with some fans who may have attended twice as many games as others.
Interesting though that you criticise a system based on games attended rather than last game attended for the ballot though but then argue for away games to be based on games attended rather than last game attended. |
But as Joe has pointed out, if the club were to use your method then I could just avoid applying until near the end of season where I then apply for MK Dons, Wimbledon & Fleetwood. I would then basically guarantee myself a ticket for each of those games and see us lift the League 1 trophy because I've watched less games than everyone else previously. | | | |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:25 - Dec 9 with 1705 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 08:24 - Dec 9 by itfcjoe |
But that also allows someone to be able to pick which games they want, i.e. if getting to the end of the season and a title decider coming up (unlikely I know) they could not apply for a couple of penultimate games to allow themselves to guarantee to get the last one etc.
It's not going to be easy to sort, hopefully we will soon be able to get 4k in to help things |
Well it could yes, but they're going to have to deprive themselves from a lot of football in the meantime. I can't see huge numbers of fans going to that length though, I wouldn't do it myself.
Thing is with the club having all the protocols in place about arrival times etc, the effect COVID has on peoples jobs etc that makes it more difficult for night games for some depending on where they are coming from. If these were normal times I'd have been in the ballot for Burton, but as a critical worker in the education field, I just can't be. | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:26 - Dec 9 with 1702 views | itfcjoe |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:09 - Dec 9 by DublinBlue84 |
"I think in this instance it would be wrong to do it that way, as otherwise the same people would get tickets to every game over the next few games which isn't fair."
Fairness should not be judged on how many games you've attended over the short term though, it should be judged based on how many games overall.
The other way doesn't balance it out at all and means those who cannot attend certain games are effectively punished for it.Personally I think it's abhorent you would suggest that ensuring the system is 'fair' over a short term is more important than ensuring it is fair over the course of the season.
If someone has for example been to three games and someone else has been to two, then if the system gives preference to the person who has attended three because they attended a game less recently than the person that attended two, and that continues over the rest of the season you're going to end up with some fans who may have attended twice as many games as others.
Interesting though that you criticise a system based on games attended rather than last game attended for the ballot though but then argue for away games to be based on games attended rather than last game attended. |
I'm replying to a post saying the most 'loyal' fans should get tickets to the game, which extrapolated means they should get tickets to every game if that is how things are going to be done, because they are by definition still the most 'loyal' fans for the Burton game and so on.
The 'short term' I'm talking about is the rest of the season, I think describing my view as 'abhorrent' is somewhat over the top. | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:26 - Dec 9 with 1697 views | Kieran_Knows |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:30 - Dec 9 with 1693 views | itfcjoe |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:25 - Dec 9 by DublinBlue84 |
Well it could yes, but they're going to have to deprive themselves from a lot of football in the meantime. I can't see huge numbers of fans going to that length though, I wouldn't do it myself.
Thing is with the club having all the protocols in place about arrival times etc, the effect COVID has on peoples jobs etc that makes it more difficult for night games for some depending on where they are coming from. If these were normal times I'd have been in the ballot for Burton, but as a critical worker in the education field, I just can't be. |
Maybe the club need to split midweek games and 3pm games into 2 separate ballot systems or something like that, the process is relatively opaque.
But whichever way it goes, there are ways to game the system - I personally think if I were in the ballot and didn't get Pompey game I would hold fire to try and get Boxing Day game rather than a Tuesday night game v Burton.
It's difficult, because in theory every season ticket holder should have an equal chance of every game, but that could leave some getting none - but every ST holder effectively has bought a ticket to every game | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:36 - Dec 9 with 1676 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:25 - Dec 9 by Jon_456 |
But as Joe has pointed out, if the club were to use your method then I could just avoid applying until near the end of season where I then apply for MK Dons, Wimbledon & Fleetwood. I would then basically guarantee myself a ticket for each of those games and see us lift the League 1 trophy because I've watched less games than everyone else previously. |
I agree that my system is not perfect for the reasons that you outlined.
But a system that potentially allows someone to attend 2-3 games more than someone else, without any kind of mechanism to even that up also isn't fair.
It makes you wonder if the club should be looking at ability to attend and at allocating tickets on an induvidual gamne basis or by looking at the avaliaiblity of fans to attend over a series of games and using that to aid in the distribution. | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:41 - Dec 9 with 1664 views | Jon_456 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:36 - Dec 9 by DublinBlue84 |
I agree that my system is not perfect for the reasons that you outlined.
But a system that potentially allows someone to attend 2-3 games more than someone else, without any kind of mechanism to even that up also isn't fair.
It makes you wonder if the club should be looking at ability to attend and at allocating tickets on an induvidual gamne basis or by looking at the avaliaiblity of fans to attend over a series of games and using that to aid in the distribution. |
Yeah its a difficult one to manage but whichever route they choose, there will always be someone who will moan (rightly or wrongly). | | | |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:41 - Dec 9 with 1663 views | jonbull88 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:30 - Dec 9 by itfcjoe |
Maybe the club need to split midweek games and 3pm games into 2 separate ballot systems or something like that, the process is relatively opaque.
But whichever way it goes, there are ways to game the system - I personally think if I were in the ballot and didn't get Pompey game I would hold fire to try and get Boxing Day game rather than a Tuesday night game v Burton.
It's difficult, because in theory every season ticket holder should have an equal chance of every game, but that could leave some getting none - but every ST holder effectively has bought a ticket to every game |
I believe they doing it the right way, however I believe they should have all fans sign up for the month of games to indicate roughly which games they should be able to make. I say this as I haven’t got a ticket for Saturday, I’m in the ballet for Tuesday, but can’t make Northampton. Swindon in the new year is also in doubt due to work so suddenly I might not be at game until the end of jan. I just believe if you state you can’t attend a certain game later on, you should get a better chance in earlier games. | | | |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:44 - Dec 9 with 1659 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:26 - Dec 9 by itfcjoe |
I'm replying to a post saying the most 'loyal' fans should get tickets to the game, which extrapolated means they should get tickets to every game if that is how things are going to be done, because they are by definition still the most 'loyal' fans for the Burton game and so on.
The 'short term' I'm talking about is the rest of the season, I think describing my view as 'abhorrent' is somewhat over the top. |
So what you're saying is that some people should be able to get tickets to several games in a row which in the previous post you claimed was unfair?
You're saying your system is fair to the end of the season, but you're actively against a system that by design focuses on ensuring that the number of games people attend is as even in number as possible in favour of one that could end with some people attending a couple more games than others, simce it only looks at the last time they attended a game rather than their attendance record overall [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 9:44]
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:45 - Dec 9 with 1657 views | monty_radio |
Some of the posters on this thread have divised weighted systems that must have taken exponentially longer to work out than the actual time the club would have devoted to the issue. When you consider that yesterday people were calling out the club for taking so long to allocate on the simple basis of a ballot, then think how long some of these "fairer systems" would have taken them. You'd be getting your seat for Portsmouth just in time for Burton - which wouldn't, of course, count, but might lead to some less than socially-distanced interchanges as two fans arrived to take up the same seat. | |
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:47 - Dec 9 with 1653 views | SuperCoops |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:41 - Dec 9 by Jon_456 |
Yeah its a difficult one to manage but whichever route they choose, there will always be someone who will moan (rightly or wrongly). |
Totally agree. The club are damned either way they do it because someone who misses out will try and justify an argument why they should get a ticket.
It's done in a manner which is fairest to most, not all. People just need to accept we are in unique times, there will be winners and losers, but it is what it is for now until Covid restrictions are fully relaxed. [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 9:48]
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:54 - Dec 9 with 1634 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:30 - Dec 9 by itfcjoe |
Maybe the club need to split midweek games and 3pm games into 2 separate ballot systems or something like that, the process is relatively opaque.
But whichever way it goes, there are ways to game the system - I personally think if I were in the ballot and didn't get Pompey game I would hold fire to try and get Boxing Day game rather than a Tuesday night game v Burton.
It's difficult, because in theory every season ticket holder should have an equal chance of every game, but that could leave some getting none - but every ST holder effectively has bought a ticket to every game |
Well I would be going in the ballot for the Burton game in normal times, but just happens to be end of term and we've got a load of exams in several sittings (running later due to COVID) which mean it isn't going to work unless I am able to walk in 15 mins before kick off..Won't be able to go Boxing Day either, so you know, it's first game in January at best.
It's not a simple situation to work out I agree. Perhaps it's best I give a call to the club ticket office and try and garner how the system is going to work and what my chancess are. I have no qualms about missing the Portsmouth match itself, sure I'm disappointed but at the end of the day it was far more likely I'd not get a ticket than I would.
I think it would be sensible though if the club could give some rough guides on times of arrival at the stadium that we can expect for night games though, because that may impact their decision to go in for ballots. [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 9:56]
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| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 10:15 - Dec 9 with 1621 views | TexacoCup |
It's certainly complicated and as has been said, it will not be fair on everyone because there are so many individual circumstances.
The club are saying they have a system that will ensure a fair distribution of tickets, let's hope it works.
In fairness to the original poster simon68 - his main point was that this first game back is in some way historic and therefore should have been treated differently. |  | | |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 10:36 - Dec 9 with 1601 views | itfcjoe |
| Ballot - A Fairer Way To Allocate Tickets that Club failed to use on 09:44 - Dec 9 by DublinBlue84 |
So what you're saying is that some people should be able to get tickets to several games in a row which in the previous post you claimed was unfair?
You're saying your system is fair to the end of the season, but you're actively against a system that by design focuses on ensuring that the number of games people attend is as even in number as possible in favour of one that could end with some people attending a couple more games than others, simce it only looks at the last time they attended a game rather than their attendance record overall [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 9:44]
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You haven't got the monopoly on the only system that is fair in this matter, you think it's fair because it works for you but there are other 'fair' ways in the same way there are failings in every single system, including yours.
There are obviously some issues this year with Covid, and how that is affecting people's availability - but I have friends who live in London who have STs that don't often bother with night games, my Dad is due to be on holiday for a 4 and a bit week period in the new year (which will likely be cancelled) which sees him miss 5 games.....should he take priority to get his games in at the end of the season? In my view no because he has elected to do something else.
Ideally everyone gets to an equal number of games, but that isn't how it works out even for those with a ST, some will go to every game rain or shine, others will miss 4 or 5 over a season but keep hold of their ST.
The only fair way is to just allocate all season ticket holders their games, with no ballot, and allow the ST holders to pass their tickets on to others either by sale or as swaps to ensure everyone has the same opportunity | |
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