| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... 01:11 - Dec 23 with 5196 views | unstableblue |
.... is just a repeat of 30 years of xenophobia that has led us to Brexit and a very weird entitled sovereignty position that damages and splinters the UK rather than improving it |  |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 03:37 - Dec 24 with 1235 views | rapier |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 03:27 - Dec 24 by SpruceMoose |
Boris is a good egg. Or something. Anal Keno isn't a right winger though apparently. A right whinger...? Definitely. [Post edited 24 Dec 2020 3:31]
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Yup, something like you, the UK needs to come together, and have the same lock down all over, not this devolved shizz we have, is not helping, the EU needs to sort it own issues with covid, before it's member states start trying to punish us, and all those drivers from all over the EU and probs far beyond! |  | | |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 03:50 - Dec 24 with 1224 views | SpruceMoose |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 03:37 - Dec 24 by rapier |
Yup, something like you, the UK needs to come together, and have the same lock down all over, not this devolved shizz we have, is not helping, the EU needs to sort it own issues with covid, before it's member states start trying to punish us, and all those drivers from all over the EU and probs far beyond! |
Well. That's one way of looking at it I guess. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 08:38 - Dec 24 with 1154 views | itfcjoe |
The problem is it suits both sides.
Macron can act the hard man ahead of an election this year, show he'll stand up to the rosbifs who think they own Europe
The British Govt can show it's the French holding things up because they are bloody frogs etc
So we are where we are |  |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:03 - Dec 24 with 1129 views | MattinLondon |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 08:38 - Dec 24 by itfcjoe |
The problem is it suits both sides.
Macron can act the hard man ahead of an election this year, show he'll stand up to the rosbifs who think they own Europe
The British Govt can show it's the French holding things up because they are bloody frogs etc
So we are where we are |
It’ll end in an odd roast beef and frog casserole?
I remember watching a documentary which stated, that like the British, the French were just as reluctant to learn another language - as well as give up their colonial past. The difference now being that the French have found a place at the heart of the EU. Whereas Britain still clings onto the past. |  | | |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:04 - Dec 24 with 1130 views | ArnieM |
This would be those "nice" French people , who HAVEN'T closed their boarders to other European countries wo currently also have the new Covid variant? Or those nice French people who used to ram UK fishing vessels who were fishing in UK waters.
The French are a bombastic, militant nation who hate the British , and this blockade of lorries at Dover is their way of showing their disagreement with the UL deciding to leave Europe. F_CUCKEM |  |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:10 - Dec 24 with 1115 views | footers |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:04 - Dec 24 by ArnieM |
This would be those "nice" French people , who HAVEN'T closed their boarders to other European countries wo currently also have the new Covid variant? Or those nice French people who used to ram UK fishing vessels who were fishing in UK waters.
The French are a bombastic, militant nation who hate the British , and this blockade of lorries at Dover is their way of showing their disagreement with the UL deciding to leave Europe. F_CUCKEM |
Yes, all French people are exactly like this. They just can't disguise their hatred for us Brits.
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:13 - Dec 24 with 1112 views | StokieBlue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:04 - Dec 24 by ArnieM |
This would be those "nice" French people , who HAVEN'T closed their boarders to other European countries wo currently also have the new Covid variant? Or those nice French people who used to ram UK fishing vessels who were fishing in UK waters.
The French are a bombastic, militant nation who hate the British , and this blockade of lorries at Dover is their way of showing their disagreement with the UL deciding to leave Europe. F_CUCKEM |
I think the 19th century called and wants it's opinions back.
You've totally ignored any context in your post. They haven't closed borders with other places such as Denmark who have very few cases of the variant (10 last time I checked) whereas we have many tens of thousands of cases.
The French were totally right to close the border and if you can't grasp that then I fear you need to go and revisit and understand the science.
SB |  | | |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:16 - Dec 24 with 1095 views | ArnieM |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:13 - Dec 24 by StokieBlue |
I think the 19th century called and wants it's opinions back.
You've totally ignored any context in your post. They haven't closed borders with other places such as Denmark who have very few cases of the variant (10 last time I checked) whereas we have many tens of thousands of cases.
The French were totally right to close the border and if you can't grasp that then I fear you need to go and revisit and understand the science.
SB |
….so the they haven't closed their boarders to other countries who have cases! ..and how fast does this virus transmit ( we are all told its very fast )? So why haven't they closed their boarders then? | |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:20 - Dec 24 with 1089 views | MonkeyAlan |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:04 - Dec 24 by ArnieM |
This would be those "nice" French people , who HAVEN'T closed their boarders to other European countries wo currently also have the new Covid variant? Or those nice French people who used to ram UK fishing vessels who were fishing in UK waters.
The French are a bombastic, militant nation who hate the British , and this blockade of lorries at Dover is their way of showing their disagreement with the UL deciding to leave Europe. F_CUCKEM |
Totally right. The French hate the British and love to get one over us. Macron thinks he is Johnny big bollox over this. Trouble is even the EU Commission wanted the border re opened, so in the end he made himself look the prat he is. |  | | |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:21 - Dec 24 with 1092 views | StokieBlue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:16 - Dec 24 by ArnieM |
….so the they haven't closed their boarders to other countries who have cases! ..and how fast does this virus transmit ( we are all told its very fast )? So why haven't they closed their boarders then? |
I've already stated it's a matter of scale. Nobody else has cases in the numbers we have, other countries have very few identified cases. Now it's true that probably every country in Europe has it but the biggest vector by far is the UK and the aim is not to stop it reaching France (which is impossible) but to slow it down as to not overwhelm the health services. Having many hundreds of thousands of people coming from the UK everyday is going to vastly increase the rate at which the new virus would take hold in France.
It looks to me more like you just want to have a xenophobic rant about the French rather than consider the evidence.
SB | | | |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:24 - Dec 24 with 1082 views | footers |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:21 - Dec 24 by StokieBlue |
I've already stated it's a matter of scale. Nobody else has cases in the numbers we have, other countries have very few identified cases. Now it's true that probably every country in Europe has it but the biggest vector by far is the UK and the aim is not to stop it reaching France (which is impossible) but to slow it down as to not overwhelm the health services. Having many hundreds of thousands of people coming from the UK everyday is going to vastly increase the rate at which the new virus would take hold in France.
It looks to me more like you just want to have a xenophobic rant about the French rather than consider the evidence.
SB |
He doesn't know the difference between border and boarder so I think epedemiology may be a step too far for now. But we can hope. | |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:25 - Dec 24 with 1076 views | lowhouseblue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:21 - Dec 24 by StokieBlue |
I've already stated it's a matter of scale. Nobody else has cases in the numbers we have, other countries have very few identified cases. Now it's true that probably every country in Europe has it but the biggest vector by far is the UK and the aim is not to stop it reaching France (which is impossible) but to slow it down as to not overwhelm the health services. Having many hundreds of thousands of people coming from the UK everyday is going to vastly increase the rate at which the new virus would take hold in France.
It looks to me more like you just want to have a xenophobic rant about the French rather than consider the evidence.
SB |
that fully justifies the closure of the border to passengers. the issue over which france is accused of playing politics is closing the border to hauliers. that hasn't happened anywhere else in the eu throughout the various stages of the crisis, the eu commission says that it's wrong, and the science suggests that the risk is very limited. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:27 - Dec 24 with 1074 views | m14_blue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:04 - Dec 24 by ArnieM |
This would be those "nice" French people , who HAVEN'T closed their boarders to other European countries wo currently also have the new Covid variant? Or those nice French people who used to ram UK fishing vessels who were fishing in UK waters.
The French are a bombastic, militant nation who hate the British , and this blockade of lorries at Dover is their way of showing their disagreement with the UL deciding to leave Europe. F_CUCKEM |
Jesus Christ |  | | |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:29 - Dec 24 with 1073 views | giant_stow |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:21 - Dec 24 by StokieBlue |
I've already stated it's a matter of scale. Nobody else has cases in the numbers we have, other countries have very few identified cases. Now it's true that probably every country in Europe has it but the biggest vector by far is the UK and the aim is not to stop it reaching France (which is impossible) but to slow it down as to not overwhelm the health services. Having many hundreds of thousands of people coming from the UK everyday is going to vastly increase the rate at which the new virus would take hold in France.
It looks to me more like you just want to have a xenophobic rant about the French rather than consider the evidence.
SB |
Forgive me stokie, but allowing lorrie drivers to cross the channel is the controversial part of all this and allowing them to do so wouldn't result in 100s of thousands of people corssing every day. It would be in the low thousands and now we know they'll all be tested. (albeit with the less reliable tests)
Also, it appears that the lack of genetic testing at scale in other countries makes it tricky to know how far the new variant has spread. For all we know, it's already rife over there. |  |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:31 - Dec 24 with 1064 views | StokieBlue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:25 - Dec 24 by lowhouseblue |
that fully justifies the closure of the border to passengers. the issue over which france is accused of playing politics is closing the border to hauliers. that hasn't happened anywhere else in the eu throughout the various stages of the crisis, the eu commission says that it's wrong, and the science suggests that the risk is very limited. |
Is the risk that limited though?
There are 16,000 trucks who go across the channel daily and many of them will have been to varied areas of the UK and mixed with quite a few people. I would suggest that drivers are in fact fairly likely vectors of transmission.
Do you have any studies showing them to be low risk? I am willing to accept it's far lower risk than some other vectors but it's still a risk which could be minimised by putting the process that are now there in place.
If the situation was reversed I don't think there would be many complaints if the UK had closed the border. Perhaps it served some political purpose as well but in the end it seems a sensible decision to me - it was only ever intended to be for a few days until a process was sorted out and the border is now open.
SB [Post edited 24 Dec 2020 9:39]
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:35 - Dec 24 with 1054 views | giant_stow |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:31 - Dec 24 by StokieBlue |
Is the risk that limited though?
There are 16,000 trucks who go across the channel daily and many of them will have been to varied areas of the UK and mixed with quite a few people. I would suggest that drivers are in fact fairly likely vectors of transmission.
Do you have any studies showing them to be low risk? I am willing to accept it's far lower risk than some other vectors but it's still a risk which could be minimised by putting the process that are now there in place.
If the situation was reversed I don't think there would be many complaints if the UK had closed the border. Perhaps it served some political purpose as well but in the end it seems a sensible decision to me - it was only ever intended to be for a few days until a process was sorted out and the border is now open.
SB [Post edited 24 Dec 2020 9:39]
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Truck driving is supposedly a solitary oocupation - they spend the vast majority on their own innit? I think their industry association has made this point at least, although they would I spose. | |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:36 - Dec 24 with 1050 views | StokieBlue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:29 - Dec 24 by giant_stow |
Forgive me stokie, but allowing lorrie drivers to cross the channel is the controversial part of all this and allowing them to do so wouldn't result in 100s of thousands of people corssing every day. It would be in the low thousands and now we know they'll all be tested. (albeit with the less reliable tests)
Also, it appears that the lack of genetic testing at scale in other countries makes it tricky to know how far the new variant has spread. For all we know, it's already rife over there. |
"The low tens of thousands".
If the situation was reversed would you want tens of thousands of people coming into the UK possibly carrying a highly infectious variant of C19? My point on hundreds of thousands was everyone, not just lorry drivers. The original post I replied to didn't restrict it to lorry drivers.
"It would be in the low thousands and now we know they'll all be tested."
This is not what was being discussed. Now the testing is in place the border is open. It was closed to sort out a process to allow it to open more safely and that has now been done so I don't think this is relevant.
"Also, it appears that the lack of genetic testing at scale in other countries makes it tricky to know how far the new variant has spread. For all we know, it's already rife over there."
It's almost certainly everywhere but if you were running the country would you take that risk? If you were a citizen of the country would you want your leader to take that risk? It was right to close the border, work out procedures and then reopen which is what has happened.
SB | | | |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:38 - Dec 24 with 1048 views | StokieBlue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:35 - Dec 24 by giant_stow |
Truck driving is supposedly a solitary oocupation - they spend the vast majority on their own innit? I think their industry association has made this point at least, although they would I spose. |
They still have to interact with people to make their deliveries, get food, use facilities, get some time out of the cab. In fact I suspect truck drivers interact a lot with each other at truck stops (although I don't know this) due to the loneliness at the other times when they are driving.
"Union with vested interest makes point supporting there interest" - this isn't really a surprise as you say.
Look at it this way - would you have wanted the UK to close the border if the situation was reversed?
The good thing is the processes are now in place and hopefully goods will be flowing freely now, albeit a bit more slowly.
SB [Post edited 24 Dec 2020 9:40]
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:45 - Dec 24 with 1035 views | giant_stow |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:36 - Dec 24 by StokieBlue |
"The low tens of thousands".
If the situation was reversed would you want tens of thousands of people coming into the UK possibly carrying a highly infectious variant of C19? My point on hundreds of thousands was everyone, not just lorry drivers. The original post I replied to didn't restrict it to lorry drivers.
"It would be in the low thousands and now we know they'll all be tested."
This is not what was being discussed. Now the testing is in place the border is open. It was closed to sort out a process to allow it to open more safely and that has now been done so I don't think this is relevant.
"Also, it appears that the lack of genetic testing at scale in other countries makes it tricky to know how far the new variant has spread. For all we know, it's already rife over there."
It's almost certainly everywhere but if you were running the country would you take that risk? If you were a citizen of the country would you want your leader to take that risk? It was right to close the border, work out procedures and then reopen which is what has happened.
SB |
I think this discussion is a little at cross purposes - no one has argued against stopping passengers crossing - it's all about accompanied frieght (apparently c.20% of total frieght). As such we are talking low numbers of people doing an essential job.
To stop them doing this is akin to saying nurses, teachers, police or social workers shouldn't do their jobs for fear of increasing the virus risk. Undoubtedly, those occupations increase transmission too, but we tolerate that as society can't simply shut down. So yes, personally, if the roles were reversed, I'd allow frieght trafic to contiue to come into the country. [Post edited 24 Dec 2020 9:46]
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:48 - Dec 24 with 1025 views | lowhouseblue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:45 - Dec 24 by giant_stow |
I think this discussion is a little at cross purposes - no one has argued against stopping passengers crossing - it's all about accompanied frieght (apparently c.20% of total frieght). As such we are talking low numbers of people doing an essential job.
To stop them doing this is akin to saying nurses, teachers, police or social workers shouldn't do their jobs for fear of increasing the virus risk. Undoubtedly, those occupations increase transmission too, but we tolerate that as society can't simply shut down. So yes, personally, if the roles were reversed, I'd allow frieght trafic to contiue to come into the country. [Post edited 24 Dec 2020 9:46]
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and in the early stages of the crisis when cases were unevenly spread across countries there were bans on flights etc, but at no previous point were hauliers stopped from crossing borders. so it's quite a coincidence for it to happen for the first time now. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:55 - Dec 24 with 1018 views | StokieBlue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:48 - Dec 24 by lowhouseblue |
and in the early stages of the crisis when cases were unevenly spread across countries there were bans on flights etc, but at no previous point were hauliers stopped from crossing borders. so it's quite a coincidence for it to happen for the first time now. |
I do think there is a contextual difference though.
At the earlier stages of the pandemic it was bad but it was possibly viewed that things could be controlled. This new variant doesn't look like it can be controlled with anything short of a lockdown due to the increased R.
Given this I don't see why closing the border to freight for 3 or 4 days is such an issue. The processes are in place now and it's reopen. Perhaps there was a political point to be made but it also seems just like a very prudent measure.
SB | | | |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:58 - Dec 24 with 1009 views | StokieBlue |
| This demonising of the French and Macron by the right wing press is..... on 09:45 - Dec 24 by giant_stow |
I think this discussion is a little at cross purposes - no one has argued against stopping passengers crossing - it's all about accompanied frieght (apparently c.20% of total frieght). As such we are talking low numbers of people doing an essential job.
To stop them doing this is akin to saying nurses, teachers, police or social workers shouldn't do their jobs for fear of increasing the virus risk. Undoubtedly, those occupations increase transmission too, but we tolerate that as society can't simply shut down. So yes, personally, if the roles were reversed, I'd allow frieght trafic to contiue to come into the country. [Post edited 24 Dec 2020 9:46]
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The original poster didn't seem to be restricting to haulage in his xenophobic ranting post and hence that is what I responded to.
I don't think the second paragraph holds at all. None of those jobs would be able to cross a border to carry out their essential jobs if there was a new variant like this - those essential jobs are entirely contained within the country in which they reside and where the variant is already highly active.
This is all about other countries wanting to minimise their possible vectors to a variant which exists in this country in the highest numbers anywhere in the world. I can understand that and now processes are in place the border is open. I honestly don't see the issue.
Perhaps we would be at a better point now if everything had always been such a cautious approach.
SB | | | |
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