| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. 08:09 - Jan 11 with 3334 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
...post worker with a shielding partner who in the first lock down was allowed to self isolate asked why he now had to work. The question went unanswered but apparently travelling more than 5 miles for a remote walk is the real concern! |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:09 - Jan 11 with 1005 views | bournemouthblue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:17 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
So they are going down the "It's the rule breakers fault" route?
Nothing to do with the 90% of public interactions that are work related then...
Great, expect the public scorn we got in lockdown 1 to come piling down once again on anyone going for a walk, sitting in a park etc. |
It always annoys me when people start blaming each other, yes there is some personal responsibility but when most of the spread is in areas the Government can control and simply have chosen not to, it's their fault. I know that's tricky if you voted Tory at the last election, it's pretty embarassing if you voted Tory and now see the total mess they have made of this.
Would Labour have done any better? They'd have inherited the country after 10 years of austerity cuts which which will certainly have contributed to our handling of this
They wouldn't have privatised Test and Trace, that's for sure. They would probably have acted quicker and listened to the experts sooner and been less willing just to let the people use their 'common sense' as Boris did early on.
I can just imagine the headlines though
Marxist Corbyn spends how much on furlough?
Worst recession in 500 years, we told you Corbyn would bankrupt the country
Terrorist Corbyn agrees deal which pleases Sinn Fein |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:11 - Jan 11 with 996 views | bluelagos |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:09 - Jan 11 by bournemouthblue |
It always annoys me when people start blaming each other, yes there is some personal responsibility but when most of the spread is in areas the Government can control and simply have chosen not to, it's their fault. I know that's tricky if you voted Tory at the last election, it's pretty embarassing if you voted Tory and now see the total mess they have made of this.
Would Labour have done any better? They'd have inherited the country after 10 years of austerity cuts which which will certainly have contributed to our handling of this
They wouldn't have privatised Test and Trace, that's for sure. They would probably have acted quicker and listened to the experts sooner and been less willing just to let the people use their 'common sense' as Boris did early on.
I can just imagine the headlines though
Marxist Corbyn spends how much on furlough?
Worst recession in 500 years, we told you Corbyn would bankrupt the country
Terrorist Corbyn agrees deal which pleases Sinn Fein |
So good, you said it twice :-) |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:15 - Jan 11 with 988 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:09 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
Morning,
Agree with all of that. You are a rare (reasoned) advocate for tighter rules, somewhat refreshing from the "send in the army" reactions from some. (Don't know why they annoy me to much but hey ho)
I'd just say it is naive in the extreme to expect businesses to close because of a "public duty" - they will need mandating and supporting if that is what we need to happen.
"Shaming" them seems to be the approach of many and it will have very limited success imho. |
"I'd just say it is naive in the extreme to expect businesses to close because of a "public duty" - they will need mandating and supporting if that is what we need to happen."
I think the government probably thought they would close in the same way they did in April but clearly the businesses weren't going to do that. As you say, it needs mandating and it needs doing today. It won't happen though, the government have watched schools get busier and transport usage increase whilst hoping for the best. The B117 variant is now spreading in the midlands and up north so if they don't do this those places will likely follow the scenes being seen in London.
As an aside, the army should be used solely for the purpose of setting up vaccination centres and transporting vaccines around. Logistics is something they excel at so they should be used for that purpose. It's certainly not the armies job to be the police and it never should be in a democracy such as ours.
SB |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:18 - Jan 11 with 990 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:17 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
So they are going down the "It's the rule breakers fault" route?
Nothing to do with the 90% of public interactions that are work related then...
Great, expect the public scorn we got in lockdown 1 to come piling down once again on anyone going for a walk, sitting in a park etc. |
It seems like they are again. They'll be the public naming and shaming, as per last time, but also they're thinking of getting rid of support bubbles. That's going to be catastrophic for people who genuinely need them. |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:21 - Jan 11 with 982 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:18 - Jan 11 by Swansea_Blue |
It seems like they are again. They'll be the public naming and shaming, as per last time, but also they're thinking of getting rid of support bubbles. That's going to be catastrophic for people who genuinely need them. |
What's the reason for getting rid of them?
I guess some people could be abusing them by going from individual to individual and then claiming that is the support bubble at the time but I don't see any evidence this is widespread.
SB | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:21 - Jan 11 with 978 views | Guthrum |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:08 - Jan 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
He could be a bit more 'Faucci!' |
To be fair, unlike his US counterpart, Whitty is at least dealing with an administration which is reasonably cooperative in attempting to fight the virus. |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:27 - Jan 11 with 969 views | giant_stow |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:21 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
What's the reason for getting rid of them?
I guess some people could be abusing them by going from individual to individual and then claiming that is the support bubble at the time but I don't see any evidence this is widespread.
SB |
I read that support bubbles, meeting someone for exercise and unlimited exercise are all being considered simply as ways to further limit the spread. |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:30 - Jan 11 with 963 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:27 - Jan 11 by giant_stow |
I read that support bubbles, meeting someone for exercise and unlimited exercise are all being considered simply as ways to further limit the spread. |
All totally unenforceable though I would think.
SB | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:34 - Jan 11 with 961 views | bluelagos |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:15 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
"I'd just say it is naive in the extreme to expect businesses to close because of a "public duty" - they will need mandating and supporting if that is what we need to happen."
I think the government probably thought they would close in the same way they did in April but clearly the businesses weren't going to do that. As you say, it needs mandating and it needs doing today. It won't happen though, the government have watched schools get busier and transport usage increase whilst hoping for the best. The B117 variant is now spreading in the midlands and up north so if they don't do this those places will likely follow the scenes being seen in London.
As an aside, the army should be used solely for the purpose of setting up vaccination centres and transporting vaccines around. Logistics is something they excel at so they should be used for that purpose. It's certainly not the armies job to be the police and it never should be in a democracy such as ours.
SB |
The one trick I think we are missing is maybe using the skills of INGOs. They are experts (like the army) in logistics but also in mass distributions of medicines/vaccines.
There will be experts at MSF and many other INGOs who could offer us a lot of knowledge and expertise. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:38 - Jan 11 with 956 views | Guthrum |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:21 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
What's the reason for getting rid of them?
I guess some people could be abusing them by going from individual to individual and then claiming that is the support bubble at the time but I don't see any evidence this is widespread.
SB |
It's another locus of transmission.
Say the single person household is someone elderly who perhaps has carers/home help and somebody to do their shopping. Then are in a bubble with one of their children, who has their own household, with themselves and/or a partner who may be working and possibly school-age youngsters. It quickly becomes a very widespread close-contact network. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:44 - Jan 11 with 946 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:38 - Jan 11 by Guthrum |
It's another locus of transmission.
Say the single person household is someone elderly who perhaps has carers/home help and somebody to do their shopping. Then are in a bubble with one of their children, who has their own household, with themselves and/or a partner who may be working and possibly school-age youngsters. It quickly becomes a very widespread close-contact network. |
Some of those vectors should be closed down (or closed down soon by the government) such as a lot of working and schooling (which will follow from closing down some work).
Of course it will still be a vector for transmission but I would think support bubbles are one of the only things which shouldn't be looked at for scrapping - it's vital to many.
SB | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:52 - Jan 11 with 936 views | homer_123 |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:02 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
Of course there is rule breaking. But is it widespread?
I don't buy it. What I do see is widespread highlighting of every sighting of rule breaking and people thus believing it is a far bigger problem than it really is. |
Yes, I think that is a fair observation Lagos.
I would say though, that given this variant is that much more transmissible, surely we need to be more stringent this time around? |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 10:03 - Jan 11 with 919 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:00 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
I am sure he does that to the government in the meetings but it's really not his job to do interviews and make statements in contradiction to the current policies.
I think it's incredibly harsh to be criticising him in this way.
As an aside, a number of coffee shops locally have Tweeted that they have closed as they don't feel that getting a takeaway coffee is "essential". They have taken the right action even without specific government help. Clearly it shouldn't be left down to the business to make this decision and take the hit though.
SB [Post edited 11 Jan 2021 9:02]
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There is specific government help for coffee shops to close. Up to £3k every 4 weeks from the local authority plus a one off grant of up to £9k for the duration of the current restrictions. |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 10:05 - Jan 11 with 913 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:21 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
What's the reason for getting rid of them?
I guess some people could be abusing them by going from individual to individual and then claiming that is the support bubble at the time but I don't see any evidence this is widespread.
SB |
I'm not sure. It was in a morning news item, framed as a general concern that people aren't following the current restrictions and the backdrop of rising cases and hospitalisations. It has a typical 'the government are considering' type vibe about it, so we'll have to see what happens as they often float things and then don't follow through.
Lots of people depend on those bubbles. I'd have thought enforcing the rules they have would be more effective. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 10:07 - Jan 11 with 909 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:02 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
Of course there is rule breaking. But is it widespread?
I don't buy it. What I do see is widespread highlighting of every sighting of rule breaking and people thus believing it is a far bigger problem than it really is. |
I’m seeing widespread rule breaking that simply didn’t occur last time around. People in supermarkets cramming together, some without masks, teenagers in groups, middle aged men with nothing to do hanging out with each other.
And Professor Hugh Montgomery, chair of intensive care medicine at UCL seems to concur.
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 10:07 - Jan 11 with 906 views | Guthrum |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:44 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
Some of those vectors should be closed down (or closed down soon by the government) such as a lot of working and schooling (which will follow from closing down some work).
Of course it will still be a vector for transmission but I would think support bubbles are one of the only things which shouldn't be looked at for scrapping - it's vital to many.
SB |
To an extent. But there will always be a large number of people who have to keep on working (the NHS, vital services, food sales/distribution).
Even areas like construction, which might be considered superfluous during lockdown, have to continue. People cannot be left with non-functional kitchens and bathrooms for weeks in the middle of a crisis. Or (as I was doing on Friday) leaking rooves unsealed.
I agree that it's vital to maintain contact. Especially in rural areas where internet coverage may not be adequate for online communication (including overgrown villages with insufficient bandwidth) and among the elderly, who are somewhat less likely to be able to do that kind of thing (tho, in reality, many are).
Problem is, the authorities are battling an illness which has already outflanked us a couple of times and the defensive lines of the health service are badly stretched in places following a very tough year. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 10:18 - Jan 11 with 885 views | Radlett_blue |
Whitty's job isn't to answer those kind of questions as he is a medical advisor, not a policy maker or enforcer. This is partly why he rarely does Q&A as obviously the questions quickly get away from the medical science & into the policy issues. |  |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 10:22 - Jan 11 with 873 views | Radlett_blue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:00 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
I am sure he does that to the government in the meetings but it's really not his job to do interviews and make statements in contradiction to the current policies.
I think it's incredibly harsh to be criticising him in this way.
As an aside, a number of coffee shops locally have Tweeted that they have closed as they don't feel that getting a takeaway coffee is "essential". They have taken the right action even without specific government help. Clearly it shouldn't be left down to the business to make this decision and take the hit though.
SB [Post edited 11 Jan 2021 9:02]
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The devil is always in the detail. Yes, take away coffee is obviously not "essential" but the government is trying to allow restaurants & cafes to remain open for take away business so that they don't all go bust or need taxpayer funded support. I doubt they are a major locus of transmission. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 11:12 - Jan 11 with 858 views | BlueBadger |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 09:07 - Jan 11 by bournemouthblue |
It always annoys me when people start blaming each other, yes there is some personal responsibility but when most of the spread is in areas the Government can control and simply have chosen not to, it's their fault. I know that's tricky if you voted Tory at the last election, it's pretty embarassing if you voted Tory and now see the total mess they have made of this.
Would Labour have done any better? They'd have inherited the country after 10 years of austerity cuts which which will certainly have contributed to our handling of this
They wouldn't have privatised Test and Trace, that's for sure. They would probably have acted quicker and listened to the experts sooner and been less willing just to let the people use their 'common sense' as Boris did early on.
I can just imagine the headlines though
Marxist Corbyn spends how much on furlough?
What recession in 500 years, we told you Corbyn would bankrupt the country |
With Starmer as Brexit secretary as well, Blue Passports and No Foreigners talks would have been shelved too - so there was have been screeching about 'betrayal' as well. [Post edited 11 Jan 2021 11:19]
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 11:17 - Jan 11 with 840 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 10:22 - Jan 11 by Radlett_blue |
The devil is always in the detail. Yes, take away coffee is obviously not "essential" but the government is trying to allow restaurants & cafes to remain open for take away business so that they don't all go bust or need taxpayer funded support. I doubt they are a major locus of transmission. |
"I doubt they are a major locus of transmission."
If you say this enough times about enough things then it all adds up to a major vector of transmission.
This is all in the governments hands, they need to decide if they want to get the R<1 or want to try and keep things ticking over. It's a complicated decision of course but if it's the first one then the experts have said this lockdown isn't anywhere near enough.
SB | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 11:39 - Jan 11 with 807 views | eireblue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 11:17 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
"I doubt they are a major locus of transmission."
If you say this enough times about enough things then it all adds up to a major vector of transmission.
This is all in the governments hands, they need to decide if they want to get the R<1 or want to try and keep things ticking over. It's a complicated decision of course but if it's the first one then the experts have said this lockdown isn't anywhere near enough.
SB |
This is the Government trying the “please don’t go to pubs” strategy again.
Please stay at home.
Churches are still open.
We would ask people to stay at home.
It’s Boll0cks.
Right Wing Libertarians still have a personal responsibility when in a position of power, to use their position with a degree of competence. |  | | |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 12:16 - Jan 11 with 775 views | Funge |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:52 - Jan 11 by bluelagos |
They are developing their narrative. It is the "lack of compliance" and people fall for it.
That the roads etc. are busier now than in April isn't due to a lack of compliance. It is due to the fact that in April lots of businesses closed that didn't need to. Now they are choosing to open. All fully within the law.
That isn't a lack of compliance. It maybe that we need to tighten up the rules but let's not pretend there is widespread rule breaking. It simply isn't true. |
Good post.
I agree with a lot of what you post - I have yet to see widespread rule breaking here in IP, although obviously there are those who break the rules.
I also agree that we are seeing a shift in the polemic towards 'exercise shaming', which is frankly bullsh1t. There is a lot of countryside in Suffolk; why should anyone have an issue with anyone else choosing to use that countryside, providing that they are isolated and distant from any other person?
I have voiced my concerns on here previously regarding this government's attempt to 'divide and conquer' on this matter. Go out and do as much exercise as you like. As long as you and your 'bubble' don't come into contact with anyone else, what difference does it make? |  | | |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 12:32 - Jan 11 with 762 views | BlueBadger |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 08:34 - Jan 11 by StokieBlue |
The NHS and the official numbers show a different story though and most experts think the peak hasn't been reached yet. The Zoe apps data is nice but it isn't perfect.
Cases of the new variant are rising outside London and also worth noting that the number that really needs to be watched it the hospitalisations.
SB [Post edited 11 Jan 2021 8:37]
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My on-the-ground experience is that our sickest patients are starting to show the words 'visited family at Christmas' or 'had grandchildren over at Christmas' in their clerking notes.
And by and large, they're not the frail elderly, they're reasonably fit 50 and 60 somethings. | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 12:46 - Jan 11 with 737 views | StokieBlue |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 12:32 - Jan 11 by BlueBadger |
My on-the-ground experience is that our sickest patients are starting to show the words 'visited family at Christmas' or 'had grandchildren over at Christmas' in their clerking notes.
And by and large, they're not the frail elderly, they're reasonably fit 50 and 60 somethings. |
I don't think that is going to come as a surprise to many unfortunately.
SB | |
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| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 12:49 - Jan 11 with 730 views | DanTheMan |
| Chris Whitty's most significant non answer. on 12:32 - Jan 11 by BlueBadger |
My on-the-ground experience is that our sickest patients are starting to show the words 'visited family at Christmas' or 'had grandchildren over at Christmas' in their clerking notes.
And by and large, they're not the frail elderly, they're reasonably fit 50 and 60 somethings. |
Who could have seen this coming? |  |
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