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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition 11:23 - Jan 13 with 2659 viewsGlasgowBlue


“A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles”.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:33 - Jan 13 with 457 viewsTieDyedIn95

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 12:26 - Jan 13 by monytowbray

Well, apart from all the public awareness Rashford has raised in the first place to be taken as a serious threat by the PM.

Most of us don’t have that luxury.


Maybe not, but 99% of people just blindly ignore tit for tat politics now from any party.

Last election....

Labour: Tories are going to sell the NHS (implies to Donald Trump and it didn't happen)

Tories: You will ruin the economy (while the Tories have) and will have no boarder control (which what the Tories have done)

Labour: Yeah well your Islamophobic (they are not)

Tories: You hate Jews (they dont)

Labour: Well your fascists (they are not)

Tories: Well your communists (no they are not}

and so on, and so fourth.... vote for us. They are like a bunch of toddlers.

Football League First Division / Premier League Champions (1): 1961–62 - Runners-up (2): 1980–81, 1981–82 Football League Second Division / EFL Championship Champions (3): 1960–61, 1967–68, 1991–92 - Play-off winners (1): 1999–2000 Football League Third Division / EFL League One Champions (2): 1953–54, 1956–57 - Southern League Champions (1): 1936–37 FA Cup Winners (1): 1977–78 - Texaco Cup Winners (1): 1972–73 UEFA Cup / UEFA Europa League Winners (1): 1980–81
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:42 - Jan 13 with 441 viewsitfcjoe

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 13:26 - Jan 13 by footers

Starmer needs some fire in his belly and to invent a personality sharpish. He's a politician now, not a QC.


I was listening to a focus group on Times Radio yesterrday and Starmer just isn't really cutting through, and when he does they think he is playing politics and should be supporting Johnson in everything........

He's in a tough position, but seems to be lining up a long form attack on Boris which just isn't going to cut through with the public when it matters - the public aren't members of a jury who are following everything intently and will then convict Boris for lies.......hard to know what is the right thing to do currently

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:47 - Jan 13 with 424 viewshype313

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:42 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe

I was listening to a focus group on Times Radio yesterrday and Starmer just isn't really cutting through, and when he does they think he is playing politics and should be supporting Johnson in everything........

He's in a tough position, but seems to be lining up a long form attack on Boris which just isn't going to cut through with the public when it matters - the public aren't members of a jury who are following everything intently and will then convict Boris for lies.......hard to know what is the right thing to do currently


I think he's playing the long game, little digs here and there when needed, but no full blown attack.

It will remain to be seen how this ends up, if in 4 years time we are still hugely scarred by Covid and it's still impacting day to day life then Starmer should walk into Number 10, if the vaccine rollout happens at the pace we are seeing, and this time next year we are back to normal then by the time the next election arrives the landscape will have changed.

However, I doubt very much Starmer will be facing Boris.

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:51 - Jan 13 with 418 viewsEwan_Oozami

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 11:42 - Jan 13 by SouperJim

Ronald Reagan probably also counts


Martin Bell?

Am viewing TWTD in Table Mode on this browser so apologies if replying to a completely different post to the one I intended. Pronouns: ho/hum
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:55 - Jan 13 with 412 viewsdeliasplums

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:42 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe

I was listening to a focus group on Times Radio yesterrday and Starmer just isn't really cutting through, and when he does they think he is playing politics and should be supporting Johnson in everything........

He's in a tough position, but seems to be lining up a long form attack on Boris which just isn't going to cut through with the public when it matters - the public aren't members of a jury who are following everything intently and will then convict Boris for lies.......hard to know what is the right thing to do currently


I spoke to my dad yesterday and he said he thought Starmer was being unfair to Johnson because of all he has to deal with. I pointed out that Johnson has blown hundreds of millions of our money on cronies who don’t deliver and for that alone he deserves all he gets. It’s just really scary that there is no scrutiny that cuts through, it’s not just Starmer.

It's 106 miles to Portman Road, we've got a full tank of gas, half a round of Port Salut, it's dark... and we're wearing blue tinted sunglasses.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:12 - Jan 13 with 388 viewsDarth_Koont

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:47 - Jan 13 by hype313

I think he's playing the long game, little digs here and there when needed, but no full blown attack.

It will remain to be seen how this ends up, if in 4 years time we are still hugely scarred by Covid and it's still impacting day to day life then Starmer should walk into Number 10, if the vaccine rollout happens at the pace we are seeing, and this time next year we are back to normal then by the time the next election arrives the landscape will have changed.

However, I doubt very much Starmer will be facing Boris.


Not sure our politics works like this. The country was scarred by austerity, Brexit and social/regional inequality after a decade of Tory rule.

Those scars became the rut in which our politics got stuck — and boosted the Tories too when they embraced it.

The Tories seem to be masters of their own disaster politics and the mistake is to let them decide the scope of the debate.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:14 - Jan 13 with 384 viewsLankHenners

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 14:42 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe

I was listening to a focus group on Times Radio yesterrday and Starmer just isn't really cutting through, and when he does they think he is playing politics and should be supporting Johnson in everything........

He's in a tough position, but seems to be lining up a long form attack on Boris which just isn't going to cut through with the public when it matters - the public aren't members of a jury who are following everything intently and will then convict Boris for lies.......hard to know what is the right thing to do currently


This is intended neither as a criticism of him nor an excuse for him but it doesn't really get mentioned how inexperienced he is politically. His job has meant he's fairly closely aligned with it but he's only been an MP for half a decade and he didn't have a strictly 'political' role before that.

It means he plays the whole thing like a lawyer, which means he's good at nitpicking but against someone like Boris who just waffles through anything thrown at him it doesn't really matter what he says to an extent as regardless of whether Starmer's correct to the letter, the point will just get obfuscated and moved onto something else.

Whilst he's not going to be in full campaigning mode right now, people still want to know what he really stands for, given his proclivity for whipping to abstain and occasional tepid criticism when he could get away with sticking the boot in. Pointing out Tory lies, corruption, contradictions etc. is all well and good and part of the process but sooner or later people are going to ask 'well what would you do then?' and he'll have to have a proper answer.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:15 - Jan 13 with 372 viewshype313

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:12 - Jan 13 by Darth_Koont

Not sure our politics works like this. The country was scarred by austerity, Brexit and social/regional inequality after a decade of Tory rule.

Those scars became the rut in which our politics got stuck — and boosted the Tories too when they embraced it.

The Tories seem to be masters of their own disaster politics and the mistake is to let them decide the scope of the debate.


Totally agree, but the one difference is that they were up against Corbyn and regardless of the agenda behind him, the nation just didn't take to him.

By the time the next election comes around if things are still in a dreadful state, and the Tories do nothing on leveling up then people will look to Starmer as a safe pair of hands.

That's my two penniesworth, for what it's worth...

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:17 - Jan 13 with 367 viewsitfcjoe

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:14 - Jan 13 by LankHenners

This is intended neither as a criticism of him nor an excuse for him but it doesn't really get mentioned how inexperienced he is politically. His job has meant he's fairly closely aligned with it but he's only been an MP for half a decade and he didn't have a strictly 'political' role before that.

It means he plays the whole thing like a lawyer, which means he's good at nitpicking but against someone like Boris who just waffles through anything thrown at him it doesn't really matter what he says to an extent as regardless of whether Starmer's correct to the letter, the point will just get obfuscated and moved onto something else.

Whilst he's not going to be in full campaigning mode right now, people still want to know what he really stands for, given his proclivity for whipping to abstain and occasional tepid criticism when he could get away with sticking the boot in. Pointing out Tory lies, corruption, contradictions etc. is all well and good and part of the process but sooner or later people are going to ask 'well what would you do then?' and he'll have to have a proper answer.


I think that's fair, but realistically he doesn't need to show his hand as yet and go OTT like Ed Milliband did as an example where he announced a new policy every other day.

I'm too young to remember Blair's ascent to power, but (sadly as change is needed) this is a long game and it has to be played that way, General Elections aren't won 4 years out from them, but guess they can be lost

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:20 - Jan 13 with 339 viewsLankHenners

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:17 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe

I think that's fair, but realistically he doesn't need to show his hand as yet and go OTT like Ed Milliband did as an example where he announced a new policy every other day.

I'm too young to remember Blair's ascent to power, but (sadly as change is needed) this is a long game and it has to be played that way, General Elections aren't won 4 years out from them, but guess they can be lost


No, there's certainly a balance to be addressed.

Don't remember that period of time either but looking back at stuff it seems that Blair (who I have next to no time for) was very strong at being LOTO in terms of really making sure everyone knew what the problems with the Tories were and when he had the opportunity to stick the knife in he did and gave it a good twist.

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:23 - Jan 13 with 332 viewshype313

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:17 - Jan 13 by itfcjoe

I think that's fair, but realistically he doesn't need to show his hand as yet and go OTT like Ed Milliband did as an example where he announced a new policy every other day.

I'm too young to remember Blair's ascent to power, but (sadly as change is needed) this is a long game and it has to be played that way, General Elections aren't won 4 years out from them, but guess they can be lost


I'd have to disagree, when you look at what Blair did when he took over in 94, it was a complete military operation of rebranding the party in preparation for 97. One of the key things he did was emphasise the need for every minister to be completely up to speed on all policies regardless of department, they were a machine in the way they deployed the party manifesto to the MP's.

Reading about how drilled they were in readiness for the interviews was quite astounding, especially now when you see how most of the current lot squirm everytime they are put in front of the cameras. Also, there were some pretty big political heavy hitters in the media who didn't take prisoners, compared to now where we have z class celebrities doing the interviews.

They knew they needed to be on point and they knew they all had to sing from the same hymn sheet because they would get hammered by Paxman and Neil, that particular general election was won in 1994.

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:27 - Jan 13 with 325 viewsgordon

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:14 - Jan 13 by LankHenners

This is intended neither as a criticism of him nor an excuse for him but it doesn't really get mentioned how inexperienced he is politically. His job has meant he's fairly closely aligned with it but he's only been an MP for half a decade and he didn't have a strictly 'political' role before that.

It means he plays the whole thing like a lawyer, which means he's good at nitpicking but against someone like Boris who just waffles through anything thrown at him it doesn't really matter what he says to an extent as regardless of whether Starmer's correct to the letter, the point will just get obfuscated and moved onto something else.

Whilst he's not going to be in full campaigning mode right now, people still want to know what he really stands for, given his proclivity for whipping to abstain and occasional tepid criticism when he could get away with sticking the boot in. Pointing out Tory lies, corruption, contradictions etc. is all well and good and part of the process but sooner or later people are going to ask 'well what would you do then?' and he'll have to have a proper answer.


That's a good summary, I think there's an extent to which he got the job because he was seen as the antithesis to Corbyn, which was probably what the Labour party needed in the short-term. But in the long-term, there's definitely a big question mark about whether he can actually appear persuasive, innovative, imaginative, dynamic and forceful etc.

The Labour party (and the left in lots of countries) don't tend to win elections by appearing more administratively competent, they win by selling a powerful vision of a better country.

To me Starmer seems to have very little going for him in terms of appealing to voters - other than the soft-right types who find the current conservative party just a bit too much like populist, narcissistic sc*mbags.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:28 - Jan 13 with 323 viewsDarth_Koont

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:15 - Jan 13 by hype313

Totally agree, but the one difference is that they were up against Corbyn and regardless of the agenda behind him, the nation just didn't take to him.

By the time the next election comes around if things are still in a dreadful state, and the Tories do nothing on leveling up then people will look to Starmer as a safe pair of hands.

That's my two penniesworth, for what it's worth...


Although any sober analysis of 2017 did suggest that there was an appetite for socialism/social democracy and addressing underlying problems. Millions returned to Labour whether that was despite Corbin or because of him.

But by 2019 the Tories bunkered down around their own awful Brexit - because they could act forceful and it would absolutely deflect from the underlying issues and their atrocious record there.

I think you’re over-rating how much impact Starmer really has. He’s been empty and uninspiring so far. And when it comes down to the necessary policies or charisma at the polling booths then I just don’t see where that’s going to come from if he can’t even provide hope during a national pandemic.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:03 - Jan 13 with 287 viewsGlasgowBlue

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 15:27 - Jan 13 by gordon

That's a good summary, I think there's an extent to which he got the job because he was seen as the antithesis to Corbyn, which was probably what the Labour party needed in the short-term. But in the long-term, there's definitely a big question mark about whether he can actually appear persuasive, innovative, imaginative, dynamic and forceful etc.

The Labour party (and the left in lots of countries) don't tend to win elections by appearing more administratively competent, they win by selling a powerful vision of a better country.

To me Starmer seems to have very little going for him in terms of appealing to voters - other than the soft-right types who find the current conservative party just a bit too much like populist, narcissistic sc*mbags.


After the shambolic Corbyn years, Labour needed a Neil Kinnock. Starmer fits the bill.

Somebody from the left who dissociates himself from the lunatic fringe and will lay the groundwork for a more electable leader..

“A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles”.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:05 - Jan 13 with 283 viewsfooters

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:03 - Jan 13 by GlasgowBlue

After the shambolic Corbyn years, Labour needed a Neil Kinnock. Starmer fits the bill.

Somebody from the left who dissociates himself from the lunatic fringe and will lay the groundwork for a more electable leader..


Let's look to the same heady levels of success Labour reached under Kinnock then. I'll get the champagne ready.

footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:11 - Jan 13 with 277 viewsGlasgowBlue

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:05 - Jan 13 by footers

Let's look to the same heady levels of success Labour reached under Kinnock then. I'll get the champagne ready.


Without Kinnock there would be no Blair.

Corbyn, like your namesake, took Labour to one of their worst ever election defeats. Kinnock laid the groundwork to make Labour electable under Blair.

“A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles”.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:21 - Jan 13 with 269 viewsfooters

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:11 - Jan 13 by GlasgowBlue

Without Kinnock there would be no Blair.

Corbyn, like your namesake, took Labour to one of their worst ever election defeats. Kinnock laid the groundwork to make Labour electable under Blair.


And as you know, Blair and Kinnock don't exactly represent the path I think Labour should have gone down so don't really want a return to Blairism under Starmer.

But oh well.

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:31 - Jan 13 with 261 viewsRocky

Can't help thinking that if an opposition MP had highlighted school hampers, Johnson and his cronies and the Tory media wouldn't have taken a blind bit of notice.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:33 - Jan 13 with 258 viewsGlasgowBlue

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:21 - Jan 13 by footers

And as you know, Blair and Kinnock don't exactly represent the path I think Labour should have gone down so don't really want a return to Blairism under Starmer.

But oh well.


Well if you want Labour to be the party of government rather than the party of protest, your preferred path will have to make compromises.

Otherwise it’s another ten years of the Tories.

“A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles”.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:41 - Jan 13 with 253 viewsSpruceMoose

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:33 - Jan 13 by GlasgowBlue

Well if you want Labour to be the party of government rather than the party of protest, your preferred path will have to make compromises.

Otherwise it’s another ten years of the Tories.


As an aside, any idea where your vote will be going GB?

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:43 - Jan 13 with 249 viewsfooters

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:33 - Jan 13 by GlasgowBlue

Well if you want Labour to be the party of government rather than the party of protest, your preferred path will have to make compromises.

Otherwise it’s another ten years of the Tories.


I think that's a pretty lazy outlook and not one I agree at all with. The Labour party can be both progressive as a social democratic force and electable. It's not an either or for me, which I know you won't agree with, so I guess we'll leave it there :)

footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:47 - Jan 13 with 234 viewsGlasgowBlue

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:41 - Jan 13 by SpruceMoose

As an aside, any idea where your vote will be going GB?


At this stage, my vote may well go to Labour for the fits time in my life.

My old man would be turning in his grave.

“A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles”.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:53 - Jan 13 with 213 viewsSpruceMoose

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:47 - Jan 13 by GlasgowBlue

At this stage, my vote may well go to Labour for the fits time in my life.

My old man would be turning in his grave.


You weren't a Blair man?! You must have been more hardcore Conservative back in the day!

To be honest, despite being eligible, I may not vote. My life is here now, I can hold and state my opinions on what I believe best for the country, but I'm wrestling with whether I should really have a more formal say than that. The other side of that coin is that we may very well decide to move to the UK at any point, so perhaps I should act on my inclinations. I also have family that vote against their best interests (IMO), so perhaps I should try to counteract that. To be determined.

I can't say that I find any particular voting option appealing anyway, but I would love to see Tom Hunt removed from his Ipswich seat.

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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:00 - Jan 13 with 202 viewsGlasgowBlue

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:53 - Jan 13 by SpruceMoose

You weren't a Blair man?! You must have been more hardcore Conservative back in the day!

To be honest, despite being eligible, I may not vote. My life is here now, I can hold and state my opinions on what I believe best for the country, but I'm wrestling with whether I should really have a more formal say than that. The other side of that coin is that we may very well decide to move to the UK at any point, so perhaps I should act on my inclinations. I also have family that vote against their best interests (IMO), so perhaps I should try to counteract that. To be determined.

I can't say that I find any particular voting option appealing anyway, but I would love to see Tom Hunt removed from his Ipswich seat.


I’ll copy and paste this from Imposted almost a year to the day:

“I was stupid enough to vote against Blair for purely tribal reasons through the period he was Labour leader but you’d have to be more than tribal not to acknowledge things such as the Human Rights Act, the National Minimum Wage, Sure Start programme, record spending on the NHS & Tax Credits.”

There was a time where I supported a political party as one supports a football team.

“A man must be excessively stupid, as well as uncharitable, who believes that there is no virtue but on his own side, and that there are not men as honest as himself who may differ from him in political principles”.
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Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 17:11 - Jan 13 with 176 viewsgordon

Looks like we have a new leader of the opposition on 16:03 - Jan 13 by GlasgowBlue

After the shambolic Corbyn years, Labour needed a Neil Kinnock. Starmer fits the bill.

Somebody from the left who dissociates himself from the lunatic fringe and will lay the groundwork for a more electable leader..


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/12/keir-starmer-voters-labour

That's a pretty good summary of the challenge for Starmer - at some point he's going to have to start talking about his vision for the country. If he just plods along talking about the woeful incompetence and corruption in the Tory party, and then all of a sudden in an election campaign Labour make some big promises apropos of nothing, then difficult to see how he's going to bring working class voters back to Labour.
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