| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:03 - Jan 23 with 1100 views | J2BLUE |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:00 - Jan 23 by Herbivore |
No idea, but the option is there. In general there are usually benefits to bloc procurement, being part of a bigger collective gives you greater purchasing power. The issue here is the delays with the Pfizer vaccine and this being the only one currently approved and in use in the EU. But if individual countries wanted to approve other vaccines and order those there are mechanisms for them to do so. |
There are usually benefits but this time there wasn't. That's all people are saying and it's perfectly fair.
Overall leaving will be a big loss but on this issue we've got a bit lucky. Hopefully we'll soon have more vaccines and Europe can get it rolled out quickly. |  |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:14 - Jan 23 with 1084 views | giant_stow |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 13:58 - Jan 23 by jeera |
At that time it was all about PPE and live-saving equipment such as ventilators.
Now I won't pretend to know why the vaccine has such slow approval within Europe but can only assume they've tied themselves up with too much red tape on this, but that's not to say the UK couldn't still use its own system of vaccine approval whilst still having joined that scheme at the time.
That the offer was politely made back then when everyone was scrabbling around for face masks is to be applauded not ridiculed. |
Absolutely - no ridicule here, just relief. |  |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:18 - Jan 23 with 1070 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 13:47 - Jan 23 by Herbivore |
EU member states can approve the vaccine amf make their own procurement arrangements themselves if they so wish. Our speedy approve of the vaccines had nothing to do with Brexit, despite JRM's claims to the contrary. |
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/8/eu-chief-member-states-cannot-negotiate-
"European Union member states will not be permitted to negotiate separate vaccine deals with pharmaceutical companies, in parallel to the bloc’s efforts as a whole, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said on Friday". |  |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:19 - Jan 23 with 1069 views | giant_stow |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:03 - Jan 23 by J2BLUE |
There are usually benefits but this time there wasn't. That's all people are saying and it's perfectly fair.
Overall leaving will be a big loss but on this issue we've got a bit lucky. Hopefully we'll soon have more vaccines and Europe can get it rolled out quickly. |
In this case, the benefits of being small and nimble out-weighed the advantages of being a larger purchaser. I think we signed contracts on vacines very quickly, which also put us at the head of the queue. [Post edited 23 Jan 2021 14:21]
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:22 - Jan 23 with 1057 views | Herbivore |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 13:59 - Jan 23 by J2BLUE |
Where as Scottish nationalists are salt of the earth, bag pipe playing, haggis eating top class lads of the highest order. |
Yeah, mostly. As far as I can tell they're just fed up of the Tories and of English exceptionalism. I can't say I blame them. |  |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:23 - Jan 23 with 1053 views | Herbivore |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:03 - Jan 23 by J2BLUE |
There are usually benefits but this time there wasn't. That's all people are saying and it's perfectly fair.
Overall leaving will be a big loss but on this issue we've got a bit lucky. Hopefully we'll soon have more vaccines and Europe can get it rolled out quickly. |
I don't disagree that we've got lucky. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:26 - Jan 23 with 1040 views | Churchman |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 13:08 - Jan 23 by Trequartista |
You must have seen the "bLuE pAsSpOrTs" and "tAkINg BaCk CoNtRoL" shrieking on here.
I voted to stay in the EU on balance, but we should not pretend to ignore a benefit when it becomes apparent, even if it is completely inadvertent. |
I’m in the same place as you on this and nothing in my experience of working on Brexit changed my mind. My post was around what I’ve seen reported. It may be rubbish, given most journalist make things up, but it seems there there are tensions between Brussels, countries and between countries themselves.
Whether BJ and the crew got it right to date on vaccine by accident or design, I’ve no idea, but given their incompetence, my money is on the former. But it cannot be denied that the volume of vaccine procured, the variety of sources and the timing by the EU has proved pretty shambolic. The numbers alone suggest that even if the narrative is not to be believed. Anyway, by the end of the summer I’m sure they’ll be sorted
As for how the EU works, I was only relating what people who’d worked there told me. |  | | |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:27 - Jan 23 with 1032 views | Herbivore |
The rest of the article suggests otherwise, including Germany having ordered 30m doses of vaccine and another EU official saying any deals done by national governments shouldn't be in competition with collective efforts. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:27 - Jan 23 with 1030 views | giant_stow |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:23 - Jan 23 by Herbivore |
I don't disagree that we've got lucky. |
There's luck involved, but not just that. We made orders for every major vacine going, so made our own luck when one came through. The EU didn't do that and were slow to agree with each other. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:30 - Jan 23 with 1021 views | giant_stow |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:27 - Jan 23 by Herbivore |
The rest of the article suggests otherwise, including Germany having ordered 30m doses of vaccine and another EU official saying any deals done by national governments shouldn't be in competition with collective efforts. |
GB is right - the agreement was meant to demonstrate unity on a massive issue and at first the Germans held back becasue of that. Then once it become clear the EU process was failing, local opinion in Germany pushed them to break the agreement and buy those 30m doses. Now Germany broke that (reasonably I would say), its a free for all. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:34 - Jan 23 with 1016 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:27 - Jan 23 by Herbivore |
The rest of the article suggests otherwise, including Germany having ordered 30m doses of vaccine and another EU official saying any deals done by national governments shouldn't be in competition with collective efforts. |
""The only framework we are negotiating in is as 27. We do this together, and no member state on this legal-binding basis is allowed to negotiate in parallel or to have a contract in parallel," the president of the EU executive, Germany's Ursula von der Leyen, told reporters on Friday (8 January)".
https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/150554
Germany has broken the EU ruling. [Post edited 23 Jan 2021 14:35]
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:34 - Jan 23 with 1013 views | Herbivore |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:27 - Jan 23 by giant_stow |
There's luck involved, but not just that. We made orders for every major vacine going, so made our own luck when one came through. The EU didn't do that and were slow to agree with each other. |
Let's just hope our strategy works. For all that we're ahead of the curve on vaccines we've still got the highest death rate in the world and the daily figures are still eye watering. We're putting all our eggs in the vaccine basket and quite a few scientists are saying that is not necessarily a good strategy. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:35 - Jan 23 with 1012 views | m14_blue |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:26 - Jan 23 by Churchman |
I’m in the same place as you on this and nothing in my experience of working on Brexit changed my mind. My post was around what I’ve seen reported. It may be rubbish, given most journalist make things up, but it seems there there are tensions between Brussels, countries and between countries themselves.
Whether BJ and the crew got it right to date on vaccine by accident or design, I’ve no idea, but given their incompetence, my money is on the former. But it cannot be denied that the volume of vaccine procured, the variety of sources and the timing by the EU has proved pretty shambolic. The numbers alone suggest that even if the narrative is not to be believed. Anyway, by the end of the summer I’m sure they’ll be sorted
As for how the EU works, I was only relating what people who’d worked there told me. |
I’m sure I read somewhere that Hancock had gone out on a limb and ordered substantially more than he was advised.
If that’s true then he’s played a blinder and credit where it’s due. |  | | |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:39 - Jan 23 with 999 views | Herbivore |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:34 - Jan 23 by GlasgowBlue |
""The only framework we are negotiating in is as 27. We do this together, and no member state on this legal-binding basis is allowed to negotiate in parallel or to have a contract in parallel," the president of the EU executive, Germany's Ursula von der Leyen, told reporters on Friday (8 January)".
https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/150554
Germany has broken the EU ruling. [Post edited 23 Jan 2021 14:35]
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I can selectively quote from the article that you posted too, if you like:
"Germany has said its agreement with BioNTech does not affect contracts between the company and the EU.
Meanwhile, the health minister of Portugal, which holds the six-month EU presidency, said separately on Friday any side deals for COVID-19 vaccines by EU countries cannot undermine the bloc’s joint orders.
Health Minister Marta Temido told reporters the EU should strive for as much of a joint approach to combating the coronavirus pandemic — including on vaccine purchases — as possible.
That did not rule out member states taking further steps on their own if they deem them necessary, she said". | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:39 - Jan 23 with 998 views | giant_stow |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:34 - Jan 23 by Herbivore |
Let's just hope our strategy works. For all that we're ahead of the curve on vaccines we've still got the highest death rate in the world and the daily figures are still eye watering. We're putting all our eggs in the vaccine basket and quite a few scientists are saying that is not necessarily a good strategy. |
Yeah absolutely, we've fcked most other aspects of this whole thing up. Not sure what long-term solution there is other than vacines though. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:42 - Jan 23 with 987 views | Herbivore |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:39 - Jan 23 by giant_stow |
Yeah absolutely, we've fcked most other aspects of this whole thing up. Not sure what long-term solution there is other than vacines though. |
Vaccines alone, so the experts say, aren't enough. You still need effective test, track and trace programmes in place as well. One issue with going balls out on the vaccine whilst levels of infection are so high is that our high levels of virus in circulation risk more mutations of the virus, and with each mutation the possibility that it becomes resistant to the vaccine increases. We really need a much wider strategy, but the government is acting like vaccines are a silver bullet for the virus when that's not necessarily the case. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:46 - Jan 23 with 979 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:39 - Jan 23 by Herbivore |
I can selectively quote from the article that you posted too, if you like:
"Germany has said its agreement with BioNTech does not affect contracts between the company and the EU.
Meanwhile, the health minister of Portugal, which holds the six-month EU presidency, said separately on Friday any side deals for COVID-19 vaccines by EU countries cannot undermine the bloc’s joint orders.
Health Minister Marta Temido told reporters the EU should strive for as much of a joint approach to combating the coronavirus pandemic — including on vaccine purchases — as possible.
That did not rule out member states taking further steps on their own if they deem them necessary, she said". |
So the President of the EU Ursula von der Leyen words were completely meaningless?
You're spinning this better than Dominic Cummings and pretty much proving Brazil's earlier point.
Enjoy the match. [Post edited 23 Jan 2021 14:47]
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:49 - Jan 23 with 972 views | Herbivore |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 14:46 - Jan 23 by GlasgowBlue |
So the President of the EU Ursula von der Leyen words were completely meaningless?
You're spinning this better than Dominic Cummings and pretty much proving Brazil's earlier point.
Enjoy the match. [Post edited 23 Jan 2021 14:47]
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The key word in your selective quote is "parallel", have a think about what that might mean in the context of the section of the article I've quoted. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 15:49 - Jan 23 with 934 views | Lord_Lucan |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 13:08 - Jan 23 by Trequartista |
You must have seen the "bLuE pAsSpOrTs" and "tAkINg BaCk CoNtRoL" shrieking on here.
I voted to stay in the EU on balance, but we should not pretend to ignore a benefit when it becomes apparent, even if it is completely inadvertent. |
This is an interesting read.
https://www.politico.eu/article/8-reasons-why-uk-leads-europe-coronavirus-vaccin |  |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 17:51 - Jan 23 with 876 views | Darth_Koont |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 13:55 - Jan 23 by Lord_Lucan |
That is your opinion because you hate this country, you are of course entitled to your spout your views. You are however quite the blinkered individual, you see English nationalism as racist but Scottish nationalism as perfectly acceptable.
You are quite a wonky bloke to be fair.
Can't wait to buy you a Ghost Ship |
You what!?
Do I “hate this country” or do I actually think it deserves an awful lot better?
You numpty. 😘 |  |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 19:17 - Jan 23 with 844 views | gazzer1999 |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 13:39 - Jan 23 by Herbivore |
Come off it, that's just not true.
As for "power grabbing, self interested, gravy train, faceless underground pickpocketers" we're currently governed by the biggest bunch of those in living memory and there's now even fewer checks and balances on them. What a time to be alive. |
I do think we can vote them out in 4 years though, unlike the faceless bureaucrats that make the decisions that can't be removed. |  | | |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 19:43 - Jan 23 with 803 views | Herbivore |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 19:17 - Jan 23 by gazzer1999 |
I do think we can vote them out in 4 years though, unlike the faceless bureaucrats that make the decisions that can't be removed. |
If only you Brexiteers could be arsed to do some basic research on how the EU operates instead of getting all your knowledge from Sun and Mail headlines. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 19:55 - Jan 23 with 793 views | gazzer1999 |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 19:43 - Jan 23 by Herbivore |
If only you Brexiteers could be arsed to do some basic research on how the EU operates instead of getting all your knowledge from Sun and Mail headlines. |
Funny I never remember getting the chance to vote Neil Kinnock or his wife into the EU. | | | |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 20:03 - Jan 23 with 779 views | Herbivore |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 19:55 - Jan 23 by gazzer1999 |
Funny I never remember getting the chance to vote Neil Kinnock or his wife into the EU. |
*Sigh*
Not worth my time. | |
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| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 20:17 - Jan 23 with 773 views | jeera |
| The UK has suffered vaccine shortages but nothing like the EU on 19:55 - Jan 23 by gazzer1999 |
Funny I never remember getting the chance to vote Neil Kinnock or his wife into the EU. |
We did have a seat you know, an actual say in proceedings.
MEPs are elected by their country's population. It's hardly faceless.
I don't want to fall out but honestly, your opinions on this never really seem to scratch far below the surface and you never, ever comment on the negatives of leaving which appear almost daily at the moment.
You don't have to convince me or anyone on here, but at least be honest with yourself. |  |
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