| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying 09:17 - Feb 10 with 3871 views | giant_stow |
About visiting a red list country? Seems like some tories have got the hump and think it's way too harsh.
Personally I think it's spot on - people shouldn't lie about this and if they do, it could in theory cause many deaths. |  |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 11:23 - Feb 10 with 1318 views | giant_stow |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 11:20 - Feb 10 by Lord_Lucan |
10 years is a maximum sentence and in reality I'm not sure anyone would get more than a couple of months. It is obviously a deterrent which may or may not work, it probably will to a degree but it's a bit over the top as a deterrent and is no more than a headline grabber.
I am more bothered about the £1750 for a 10 night stay without the use of any facilities, that seems a bit over the top to me, I would say £1000 would be fairer.
Although one would have to question why anyone really needs to travel at the moment.
A listener called up James O Brien this morning with a good Idea. He suggested that we should take peoples passports away for 10 years. That is also a bit excessive IMHO but I would say that a mandatory loss of passport for 2 years with a fine and possible bit of time for extreme or persistent offenders would be about right. |
That passport idea is a goodun. | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 11:25 - Feb 10 with 1314 views | bluelagos |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 11:12 - Feb 10 by giant_stow |
I've largely agreed with your takes on this whole crisis, so that stopped me in my tracks a bit!
However, I think asking people not to lie about something so serious is reasonable in this case.
You’re right to point out that we’ve been exceedingly slow to sort this out, but then again, I think the new variants and the danger they pose is what’s changed and made it all more urgent. Our whole vaccination programme depends on keeping those nasties out, but there’s a massive weak spot there that needs to be patched.
In terms of freedoms and proportionality, I would argue that marching people from a plane to quarantine, or spying on them via their phones is actually more heavy handed than trusting people to do the right thing / punishing them badly if they break that trust
Also, given that one infected & lying traveller could in theory bring down the whole vaccination programme, I do think a ten year limit on sentencing is proportional. Other crimes which carry such a sentence actually seem to pale in comparison to potentially causing 10s of thousands of deaths or causing the reintroduction of lockdown (to take my argument to the extreme).
Your point about unpaid fines really just supports the need for a sanction that will actually make people stop and think.
All they’re asking is for returning travellers to tell the truth and given that very very few people should be travelling in any case, this is fair. [Post edited 10 Feb 2021 11:23]
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The solution isn't hard. Every visitor is met and explains why he is here and where they have come from.
If they are coming on holiday and that is not permitted, they are refused entry. If they have a legitimate reason and don't need to quarantine (Say lorry drivers) they go on their way.
If they need to quarantine then we need a system that works - whether that is putting them in hotels, tracking them, tagging them, who knows. But how about we design a system that works and implement it. Kind of like countless other countries have.
I am not against quarantining people per se. I am against pretending we have an effective system by throwing out a headline about 10 years in prison.
We've all been on airplanes where you fill in the form before landing. By all means have sanctions for filling those in wrongly, but I think 10 years in jail is excessive and it won't happen.
Last point, in a few weeks/months we will have travel corridors and probably a vaccine passport scheme. Why not simply keep the borders closed to tourism until that is up, running and effective. The idea that this is going to make much difference when you can't currently even get on a plane from South America, seems like wishful thinking. [Post edited 10 Feb 2021 11:28]
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 11:49 - Feb 10 with 1282 views | factual_blue |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 10:31 - Feb 10 by Guthrum |
Lithuania had such a hotel quarantine system going on for all incomers back in March (friend of mine went there to see her dangerously ill father).
If the Government can shove asylum seekers in old army barracks (sometimes for years), then don't see why they can't do something similar for incoming international travellers. [Post edited 10 Feb 2021 10:33]
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Have we allowed him back in? |  |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:04 - Feb 10 with 1265 views | Radlett_blue |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 11:20 - Feb 10 by Lord_Lucan |
10 years is a maximum sentence and in reality I'm not sure anyone would get more than a couple of months. It is obviously a deterrent which may or may not work, it probably will to a degree but it's a bit over the top as a deterrent and is no more than a headline grabber.
I am more bothered about the £1750 for a 10 night stay without the use of any facilities, that seems a bit over the top to me, I would say £1000 would be fairer.
Although one would have to question why anyone really needs to travel at the moment.
A listener called up James O Brien this morning with a good Idea. He suggested that we should take peoples passports away for 10 years. That is also a bit excessive IMHO but I would say that a mandatory loss of passport for 2 years with a fine and possible bit of time for extreme or persistent offenders would be about right. |
Preventing people who break the rules from travelling in the future makes more sense than a ludicrous jail sentence; rather like banning drink-drivers from driving. The only problem is that this will then attract the attention of human rights/civil liberties lawyers. |  |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:06 - Feb 10 with 1263 views | TractorWood |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 11:23 - Feb 10 by giant_stow |
That passport idea is a goodun. |
Are you being sarcastic? How is taking someone's passport away a good idea?
I've no idea how the Tories have managed to deflect their failures and borders they control (or lack control of) to motivate people to think taking people's passports away is a good idea.
Surely we just need to close the borders to air travel if people are that emotional about this stuff. [Post edited 10 Feb 2021 12:09]
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:25 - Feb 10 with 1239 views | Churchman |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:06 - Feb 10 by TractorWood |
Are you being sarcastic? How is taking someone's passport away a good idea?
I've no idea how the Tories have managed to deflect their failures and borders they control (or lack control of) to motivate people to think taking people's passports away is a good idea.
Surely we just need to close the borders to air travel if people are that emotional about this stuff. [Post edited 10 Feb 2021 12:09]
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It’s not about the tories failures. The list of those is enormous, including not restricting the borders from last March. But retribution for that should come later. This is about the now and the future.
I see no value in muddying the waters or peoples individual responsibilities with ‘its the tories innit’. It’s dead simple. Play by the rules and you not wind up with a criminal record, fine, jail etc. As far as i am concerned if people bleat over a jail sentence for telling lies, then don’t tell lies. Easy.
As for the cost of hotel quarantine the Australians are charging about the same as the govt are proposing here. I don’t remember any complaints over that. If you don’t want to pay it, again, don’t put yourself in a position where you have to. What part of all this is difficult? |  | | |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:37 - Feb 10 with 1223 views | eireblue |
I have a similar view to BL on this.
This is about headlines, to "prove" the Government is Very Serious about this.
Generally harsh sentences don't stop people doing things. It is the likelihood of getting caught.
As another example, this Covid thing has been around a while now.
But the government will use terms like we are Working At Pace with the hotel industry to sort out quarantines which will start soon.
They have only had a year to "Work At Pace".
Bunch of incompetent Lamberks. |  | | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:39 - Feb 10 with 1215 views | footers |
Helping to make the Norfolk gene pool even smaller then. |  |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:43 - Feb 10 with 1213 views | Churchman |
Oooh, some ancestors of mine served on the Caister and Yarmouth lifeboats. A couple of them were lost in the 1901 disaster.
I’ve often wondered why people who are rescued having been stupid (not working boats that get into trouble) are not made to pay for their rescue. Same with idiots that go wandering in the mountains with trainers and a cheap fleece. | | | |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:51 - Feb 10 with 1191 views | GaryCooper |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 10:14 - Feb 10 by Mookamoo |
It seems heavy, but Gross Negligence Manslaughter has a maximum tariff of life. I think Scotland has Involuntary culpable homicide which is also up to life.
10 years for anyone entering the country, knowing they could infect a large number of people which will ultimately lead to large numbers of deaths? Seems fair. |
"but Gross Negligence Manslaughter has a maximum tariff of life"
This is what the government and NHS management should be charged with.
The HSE should already be preparing the case. |  | | |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:53 - Feb 10 with 1178 views | lowhouseblue |
no court would actually impose 10 years. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:54 - Feb 10 with 1177 views | bluelagos |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:53 - Feb 10 by lowhouseblue |
no court would actually impose 10 years. |
Sshhh. That's not what people want to hear. | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 13:08 - Feb 10 with 1147 views | TractorWood |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:54 - Feb 10 by bluelagos |
Sshhh. That's not what people want to hear. |
There is clearly an audience for emotive over reaction on justice. | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 14:00 - Feb 10 with 1097 views | giant_stow |
I read about that in the edp yesterday being a big fan of Winterton.
They're idiots for going for the walk, but felt for them too - not their fault that search and rescue was called! | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 14:01 - Feb 10 with 1095 views | giant_stow |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 12:06 - Feb 10 by TractorWood |
Are you being sarcastic? How is taking someone's passport away a good idea?
I've no idea how the Tories have managed to deflect their failures and borders they control (or lack control of) to motivate people to think taking people's passports away is a good idea.
Surely we just need to close the borders to air travel if people are that emotional about this stuff. [Post edited 10 Feb 2021 12:09]
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Taking the passport as a punishment for putting everyone at risk seems a nice mild option to prison to me! | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 14:18 - Feb 10 with 1082 views | bluelagos |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 14:01 - Feb 10 by giant_stow |
Taking the passport as a punishment for putting everyone at risk seems a nice mild option to prison to me! |
Does that mean you have reassessed regarding a punishment of a 10 year prison sentence being disproportionate? | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 14:21 - Feb 10 with 1076 views | giant_stow |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 14:18 - Feb 10 by bluelagos |
Does that mean you have reassessed regarding a punishment of a 10 year prison sentence being disproportionate? |
I'm in a softer mood maybe (!) and quite like the passport idea - it does seem more proportionate and might do the job of putting off anyone who's tempted. Or just string em' up! | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 14:39 - Feb 10 with 1060 views | bluelagos |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 14:21 - Feb 10 by giant_stow |
I'm in a softer mood maybe (!) and quite like the passport idea - it does seem more proportionate and might do the job of putting off anyone who's tempted. Or just string em' up! |
IF you think about it - we are basically trying to ensure holidaying Brits don't evade the controls put in place to skip quarantine should they go to places seen as dangerous (Regarding having a mutation of CV) like Brazil or South Africa.
Anyone of that mindset, is clearly desperate to get a holiday/break - so I would think the prospect of losing the ability to holiday for a couple of years is exactly the type of sanction that would deter them.
A fine on it's own risks being ineffective to the extremely wealthy who would be happy to just pay it. | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 15:24 - Feb 10 with 1036 views | IpswichKnight |
It’s highly unlikely that anyone is going to get 10 years but the high tariff us a sign that it’s an offence not to be taken lightly. As someone pointed out Gross Negligent manslaughter carries a life without parole as a maximum sentence and I don’t even think there’s been a successful prosecution for that offence.
I’d pass some of this back to the airlines as well and fine them if they carried someone here from a red list and I’d also fine them if anyone uses a fake Covid vaccine certificate to enter the UK. Airlines are good at spotting fakes when they are responsible for looking for them it also gives us an extra layer of security and should make it harder for people to lie and get away with it. |  | | |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 16:07 - Feb 10 with 1008 views | Radlett_blue |
The "10 years in jail" nonsense is political grandstanding & wouldn't stand up to any legal scrutiny. One could equate the offence to similar to perverting the course of justice & the guidelines for that are a sentence of between 4 and 36 months.
Of course, the government could impose martial law & decide that anyone they think has been lying will be shot. | |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 16:13 - Feb 10 with 1000 views | jaykay |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 14:00 - Feb 10 by giant_stow |
I read about that in the edp yesterday being a big fan of Winterton.
They're idiots for going for the walk, but felt for them too - not their fault that search and rescue was called! |
also idiots for travelling from london for that walk, you forgot to add |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 16:26 - Feb 10 with 982 views | giant_stow |
| How's everyone feel about this 10 year sentence for lying on 16:13 - Feb 10 by jaykay |
also idiots for travelling from london for that walk, you forgot to add |
Bad wording on my part - that's what I meant.
As it happens, I know for a fact the locals there are on high alert for idiot Londoners (there have been grassing incidents). | |
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