| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC 13:26 - Feb 17 with 3065 views | Illinoisblue |
What other similar sized clubs have a good structure? What is missing at ITFC? Who can we take inspiration from to make it right? |  |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:27 - Feb 17 with 2280 views | DanTheMan |
Well the first thing a club with a good infrastructure would do would be to sack an incompetent manager. |  |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:28 - Feb 17 with 2268 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Norwich City. |  |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:30 - Feb 17 with 2255 views | SomethingBlue |
Norwich City, although they are in a different galaxy altogether now.
Really it's a list as long as your arm. Brentford is run so differently that it's probably a pipedream but when you see clubs like Barnsley (very interesting and innovative setup there), Preston and even Luton doing things so much more smartly it's a real kick in the teeth. And none of those clubs are as big as ITFC, not even particularly close. |  |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:31 - Feb 17 with 2227 views | haynes_toe1 |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:28 - Feb 17 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Norwich City. |
Not sure it's a case of similar sized clubs anymore, their budget alone despite having owners with no money must far surpass us.
However I guess most of their structure was put in place at a time of financial difficulty, a lot of it originating from Ed Balls. | | | |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:33 - Feb 17 with 2211 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:31 - Feb 17 by haynes_toe1 |
Not sure it's a case of similar sized clubs anymore, their budget alone despite having owners with no money must far surpass us.
However I guess most of their structure was put in place at a time of financial difficulty, a lot of it originating from Ed Balls. |
They are more successful in recent history, and their income is bigger.
They are a similar sized club historically based on stadium size and fan base etc.
It depends on the definition of size of club.
Yes, they have a bigger income, no they are not a bigger club.
Heaven help us if we cant even look to a club like Norwich and learn from their structure. | |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:34 - Feb 17 with 2206 views | Illinoisblue |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:27 - Feb 17 by DanTheMan |
Well the first thing a club with a good infrastructure would do would be to sack an incompetent manager. |
Right but go beyond that. Is it scouting? Facilities? Overuse of loans? Disconnect between youths and 1st team? How in the name of the lord Jesus Christ do we make football so facking complicated? | |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:37 - Feb 17 with 2183 views | DanTheMan |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:34 - Feb 17 by Illinoisblue |
Right but go beyond that. Is it scouting? Facilities? Overuse of loans? Disconnect between youths and 1st team? How in the name of the lord Jesus Christ do we make football so facking complicated? |
Sorry, couldn't help myself!
You're right, I have no idea. The only thing I can say for certain is that when I last knew about their scouting, it wasn't at all comparable to other "modern" clubs, but I would have thought it had at least moved on slightly since then.
It wasn't for the reasons others thought like that we did no overseas scouting, it was all just a bit old school. | |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:39 - Feb 17 with 2162 views | jayessess |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:34 - Feb 17 by Illinoisblue |
Right but go beyond that. Is it scouting? Facilities? Overuse of loans? Disconnect between youths and 1st team? How in the name of the lord Jesus Christ do we make football so facking complicated? |
I actually suspect it's a whole lot less complicated than is often imagined. The first team's direction is determined by the manager, everything stems from that. Find a good one and they'll turn your club around. |  |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:49 - Feb 17 with 2110 views | jontysnut |
Luton must have done something right as they only came out of the Conference in 2014. That seems like a good 5 year plan. |  | | |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:53 - Feb 17 with 2086 views | Kev_W |
What is missing? In a nutshell: management and leadership of the club as a whole. It isn't much different to most other failing businesses. Three aspects:
There is no clear strategy, more a set of semi connected wishes giving a feeling of drift. Think of any part of the club that works very well - despite hard work by employees - hard to find any area.
No obvious commitment to building up support and improving what it is like to go to a match. Yes, I know most of us go for the match not the 'experience' but the club seems to have no idea how to attract casual supporters ands then make them regulars.
Lack of self criticism and honesty about where we are and the prospects for change. O'Neill's statement on injuries 'leave no stone unturned etc' - just doesn't ring true.
Evans needs to clarify what he wants to do and how much/little he wishes to invest. Recruit a proper CEO of proven ability, probably from within football or sport. Given them clear goals and let them get on with it. | | | |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:58 - Feb 17 with 2049 views | Churchman |
It comes from Evans. He needs to decide what he wants the club to be. Totally up to him. If he wants to fold it, just get on with it. It’s the letting it rot away that’s killing me.
If he wants a club, put some structure into it. It really isn’t difficult. If Evans can’t, he should find someone who can. He’s not building a moon rocket ffs.
Oh, and get rid of Lambert. The world is full of talkers and he’s not even good at that. |  | | |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 14:01 - Feb 17 with 2021 views | Herbivore |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:49 - Feb 17 by jontysnut |
Luton must have done something right as they only came out of the Conference in 2014. That seems like a good 5 year plan. |
They were helped by picking up a player like Jack Marriott for no money whatsoever though. If only we could unearth a gem like that. |  |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 14:23 - Feb 17 with 1942 views | floridaboy |
Sorry but surely Lambert is paid to manage the club ie the first team. It is not his job to run the club, that is surely down to the owner and the people he puts in place.
Lambert has run out of excuses and is now banging on about how wonderful he was to protect Randy Lerner. Is he saying that he is now protecting Evans.
Maybe if he concentrated on getting the decent squad of players he has at his disposal to play decent football and win matches then maybe some fans might think different of him (not many I know!)
On another point what does Lee O'Neill do and what is his position at the club? Does Lambert answer to him? | | | |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 14:32 - Feb 17 with 1922 views | Swansea_Blue |
We could do a lot worse than look over here at Swansea, and it means we can stop talking about Norwich ;). They're a bit smaller in terms of ground size, but otherwise very similar.
- Proud highlights in the early 80s
- Stated aim that they want to play with the ball
- Remote owners
- Cope broadly within their means (they're actually more fiscally sustainable than us, balancing the books without the need for long-term owner funding of debt, even if that's a challenge sometimes)
Things they do differently:
- Put people in charge who know what they are doing. They've always had a locally present DoF. They had a long spell in the mid-00s to when they got promoted to the PL when the management were learning on the job. But 99% of the time they made the right decision and several were involved in the decision making.
That went a bit pear shaped when the new owners took over about 4 years ago and there were a couple of bad adjustment years. The new owners learnt though, realised it wasn't working and brought in the highly experienced Trevor Birch as DoF (won't have been cheap). He moved on and they put in the new guy who's name I forget, but again is an experienced DoF.
- Actually align activities and recruitment to the aim of playing decent football. So buy technical players. u23s and first team are perfectly aligned in style and ethos, so the youngsters can drop straight in when needed.
- Appoint managers who like the technical side of the game. They know how to spot a good fit, so in the time we've had the likes of Keane, Jewell, Hurst and Lambert they've had Martinez, Brendan Rodgers, Paulo Sousa, Laudrup, and lately Potter and Cooper. All a good fit. If your teams can't pass the ball with composure and an element of flair you don't get a look in. And none of this nonsense about must have got a team promoted before - they appoint on fit of character and style and can spot potential (because they have experienced football people making the decision).
- Involve former players in the management structure for consistency between managerial changes. They had Alan Curtis as a number 2 for years - he supported managers like Brendan Rodgers and was key to getting across what it means to play for the team to the new managers, coaches and players (Klug would probably be our closest fit). Leon Britton was in a football consultancy role after he finished playing. They've got Alan tate in the coaching staff. The U23s manager for years was the son of John toshack. All local links providing part of the foundation of the club. |  |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:17 - Feb 17 with 1855 views | Illinoisblue |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 13:33 - Feb 17 by Marshalls_Mullet |
They are more successful in recent history, and their income is bigger.
They are a similar sized club historically based on stadium size and fan base etc.
It depends on the definition of size of club.
Yes, they have a bigger income, no they are not a bigger club.
Heaven help us if we cant even look to a club like Norwich and learn from their structure. |
We should be looking at similar sized clubs that haven’t been propped up by parachute payments | |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:23 - Feb 17 with 1825 views | Herbivore |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:17 - Feb 17 by Illinoisblue |
We should be looking at similar sized clubs that haven’t been propped up by parachute payments |
Derby? | |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:25 - Feb 17 with 1808 views | jaykay |
so its not evans, players , or himself according to lambert. so its those stewards and gate keepers to blame. i always knew they were a bad lot. plus don't start me on them ball boys or mascots [Post edited 17 Feb 2021 15:28]
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| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:28 - Feb 17 with 1780 views | tractorlad01 |
Some are even smaller clubs.
Brentford
Bournemouth
Brighton
Leicester
Wolves
Burnley
Swansea
Norwich...
It would be a very long list | | | |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:29 - Feb 17 with 1774 views | jayessess |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:17 - Feb 17 by Illinoisblue |
We should be looking at similar sized clubs that haven’t been propped up by parachute payments |
in the Championship:
Blackburn, Brentford, Reading, Barnsley, Preston, Bristol City, Millwall, Luton, Derby, Forest, Coventry, Rotherham, Sheffield Wednesday, Birmingham and Wycombe all either haven't had parachute payments in a long time or never got them.
A few of them are bankrolled a bit more generously than us though. | |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:34 - Feb 17 with 1747 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:29 - Feb 17 by jayessess |
in the Championship:
Blackburn, Brentford, Reading, Barnsley, Preston, Bristol City, Millwall, Luton, Derby, Forest, Coventry, Rotherham, Sheffield Wednesday, Birmingham and Wycombe all either haven't had parachute payments in a long time or never got them.
A few of them are bankrolled a bit more generously than us though. |
Even those that ultimately get parachute payments, like Norwich, must have done something right to get to the PL without them in the first place.
it's a funny one. It you can hold on to your manager and keep most of your team together when you get relegated, you stand a good chance of being a top Championship club and coming back up. But if you want to stay in the PL and do reasonably well you need to upgrade players and maybe manager, who then won't want to stay if you get relegated. It's a difficult balancing act to get right due to the massive difference in money between the leagues. | |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:35 - Feb 17 with 1742 views | captainfantastic |
Brighton & Brentford. Both using cutting edge data analytics to drive recruitment |  |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:40 - Feb 17 with 1730 views | jayessess |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:35 - Feb 17 by captainfantastic |
Brighton & Brentford. Both using cutting edge data analytics to drive recruitment |
This is all the by the by, incidentally at the minute we're having a pockets picked by clubs like Lincoln City and Accrington Stanley whose financial resources are spare change | |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:55 - Feb 17 with 1687 views | captainfantastic |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:40 - Feb 17 by jayessess |
This is all the by the by, incidentally at the minute we're having a pockets picked by clubs like Lincoln City and Accrington Stanley whose financial resources are spare change |
because they're investing their money smarter | |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 16:01 - Feb 17 with 1660 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 15:35 - Feb 17 by captainfantastic |
Brighton & Brentford. Both using cutting edge data analytics to drive recruitment |
Nope couldn’t be that as Lambert wouldn’t have any idea what it was or how it could help him.
Lambert is harping on about the teams below the first team not doing the Lambert walk. |  |
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| Lots of talk of the structure not being right at ITFC on 16:02 - Feb 17 with 1657 views | Parsley |
Southampton would be the example for me. I see a lot of similarities in terms of stadium size, local rivalry, good academy. They made it from League 1 to the Premier League based on a great structure utilising academy players and recruiting well, playing a good brand of football, reinvesting money from player sales and making good managerial appointments. |  | | |
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