| Why do we need unions? Part 562 12:18 - Mar 1 with 1570 views | Steve_M |
Still, quite staggering behaviour from a restaurant chain. Hopefully the staff can find a more respectable employer once places open up later this year.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-56213042
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:22 - Mar 1 with 1516 views | Guthrum |
Quite possibly constructive dismissal if they sack staff who refuse. |  |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:24 - Mar 1 with 1508 views | homer_123 |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:22 - Mar 1 by Guthrum |
Quite possibly constructive dismissal if they sack staff who refuse. |
I'd suggest well beyond 'quite possibly'. |  |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:26 - Mar 1 with 1497 views | StokieBlue |
That's crazy.
What on earth were they thinking. Not only is it awful and illegal but they surely knew it would get out into the media.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:26 - Mar 1 with 1486 views | homer_123 |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:26 - Mar 1 by StokieBlue |
That's crazy.
What on earth were they thinking. Not only is it awful and illegal but they surely knew it would get out into the media.
SB |
No such thing as bad PR?!?!?!? | |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:31 - Mar 1 with 1475 views | Pendejo |
If I were employed by them I'd agree to it.... BUT only if there were some sort of reward, but the article said interest free loan. In order to remain in employment I'd have happily "loaned" my employer 10% of my salary, as long as I got it all back plus some extra recompense.
Anything else is immoral and taking the pish. |  |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:31 - Mar 1 with 1469 views | Guthrum |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:26 - Mar 1 by StokieBlue |
That's crazy.
What on earth were they thinking. Not only is it awful and illegal but they surely knew it would get out into the media.
SB |
Probably somebody's cunning wheeze to solve a hole in the accounts, but which wasn't thought through properly.
They may also be heavily indebted (having recently opened a new restaurant in London), hamstrung by lockdown and no longer really viable. This may be a last, desperate throw of the dice. | |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:32 - Mar 1 with 1456 views | chicoazul |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:26 - Mar 1 by StokieBlue |
That's crazy.
What on earth were they thinking. Not only is it awful and illegal but they surely knew it would get out into the media.
SB |
Is it illegal? |  |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:33 - Mar 1 with 1437 views | NthQldITFC |
Because I don't like any other form of bhaji. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:33 - Mar 1 with 1438 views | Pendejo |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:26 - Mar 1 by StokieBlue |
That's crazy.
What on earth were they thinking. Not only is it awful and illegal but they surely knew it would get out into the media.
SB |
All publicity is good publicity... Especially for the "recently opened" London restaurant, especially when the follow up story includes employees paid back the loan plus an extra thank you...? | |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:34 - Mar 1 with 1434 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:32 - Mar 1 by chicoazul |
Is it illegal? |
Either way it's not ethical.
Although I guess there is probably more to it. |  |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:35 - Mar 1 with 1422 views | chicoazul |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:34 - Mar 1 by Lord_Lucan |
Either way it's not ethical.
Although I guess there is probably more to it. |
Oh I agree. I just didn’t know it was illegal too. | |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:37 - Mar 1 with 1415 views | StokieBlue |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:33 - Mar 1 by Pendejo |
All publicity is good publicity... Especially for the "recently opened" London restaurant, especially when the follow up story includes employees paid back the loan plus an extra thank you...? |
Probably about time that stupid saying was put to bed I think.
Publicity like this could sink a business, why should I buy my steak there when other options exist who don't extort their employees? In the days of rampant social media bad publicity is just bad publicity.
The last bit is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if they are paid back with interest, it was made clear that their continual employment could hinge on participating in the loan rather than it being a request and incentive to earn some interest.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:37 - Mar 1 with 1415 views | Guthrum |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:32 - Mar 1 by chicoazul |
Is it illegal? |
It's probably not illegal to ask your staff to lend the company money. However, the implied threat of sacking almost certainly is. | |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:38 - Mar 1 with 1410 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:26 - Mar 1 by StokieBlue |
That's crazy.
What on earth were they thinking. Not only is it awful and illegal but they surely knew it would get out into the media.
SB |
It's the biggest flaw in the Furlough system. After almost a year with very little income many businesses will now find themselves running out of money. It's easy to think that the company should have made as many redundancies as necessary, but they may not have the capital to cover the statutory redundancy payments.
Someone had a bright idea, which is actually a terrible idea, in order to try to save the jobs for the next two or three months, when things might open up again. But they should have found another source of finance for this. They probably would have been better off putting out a Kickstarter explaining the situation as honestly as possible, and asking people to pay now for meals and/or reductions in the future (say "Contribute £25 for £50 off a meal in the next 18 months"). As long as they limited the reclaim process to 10% of capacity each week that would work, without completely screwing cash flow when things re-open. Friends and Family of those whose jobs were at risk may have pitched in on that basis.
I can see where the management were coming from, but it was just never going to work, and ends up looking terrible. |  | | |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:39 - Mar 1 with 1404 views | StokieBlue |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:32 - Mar 1 by chicoazul |
Is it illegal? |
I thought it would be.
Saying that someone's employment could be based on them giving back 10% of their salary to the company as a loan is bullying at the very least, constructive dismissal at worst.
I can't see how the company would win a tribunal given their stance.
If they had requested that staff did it with the perk of earning some interesting and then stressed that take-up wasn't compulsory and would have no bearing on their employment then that's different.
SB [Post edited 1 Mar 2021 12:40]
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:48 - Mar 1 with 1364 views | Pendejo |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:37 - Mar 1 by StokieBlue |
Probably about time that stupid saying was put to bed I think.
Publicity like this could sink a business, why should I buy my steak there when other options exist who don't extort their employees? In the days of rampant social media bad publicity is just bad publicity.
The last bit is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if they are paid back with interest, it was made clear that their continual employment could hinge on participating in the loan rather than it being a request and incentive to earn some interest.
SB |
I know the phrase is largely garbage (see Ratner), however, the restaurant chain name will now be familiar to people, but not necessarily why.
Not going to defend the employer, they could have achieved the same ends with a completely different strategy that involved recompense, something my employer did in 2009. | |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:51 - Mar 1 with 1351 views | Churchman |
Awful, shameless people. I hope the staff can get jobs elsewhere soon. It’s not a restaurant I’d use for all the tea in China. |  | | |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 13:00 - Mar 1 with 1298 views | SmithersJones |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 12:39 - Mar 1 by StokieBlue |
I thought it would be.
Saying that someone's employment could be based on them giving back 10% of their salary to the company as a loan is bullying at the very least, constructive dismissal at worst.
I can't see how the company would win a tribunal given their stance.
If they had requested that staff did it with the perk of earning some interesting and then stressed that take-up wasn't compulsory and would have no bearing on their employment then that's different.
SB [Post edited 1 Mar 2021 12:40]
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Constructive dismissal is where an employer behaves so badly the employee feels they have no choice but to resign. So (stating the obvious I know) an employee would have to resign to bring a claim, which they may be unwilling to do. Unfair dismissal could be a claim but (again stating the obvious) no one’s been dismissed yet. The more immediate issue is whether this is against the rules of the furlough scheme. I think the reason employers were asked to foot the bill for pensions and NI was to ensure that the scheme supported jobs where there was a reasonable chance of them carrying on post pandemic. | | | |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 13:04 - Mar 1 with 1267 views | xrayspecs |
Not sure you need a union per se, just basic protection of employees and a robust means to enforce.
I agree that the optics here are awful.
A number of years ago, a former colleague of mine was working at a smallish business when they suffered a significant reduction in revenues to the point where they could no longer trade profitably. As a business, they collectively agreed to take a 40% pay cut until the business recovered. I believe they had around six months on this reduced pay, and then a further few months on a 20% cut before they all returned to the original salaries.
Faced with a business in difficulty, I do not think it unreasonable for staff to be asked to be part of a solution that protects all, or as many jobs as possible, even if this means staff defer pay or agree to a temporary reduction. The economics remain the same, if you cannot balance the books, then some folk would need to be let go. Is this better than everyone taking a share of the pain? A collective solution is a potential option, so I would not rule this out as an approach.
To be clear, I am talking about the principle and do not know enough about this specific case to have a view on whether it was appropriate. That said directly linking your future employment to participation in such a scheme is unlikely to be good for morale. [Post edited 1 Mar 2021 13:08]
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 13:07 - Mar 1 with 1256 views | StokieBlue |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 13:00 - Mar 1 by SmithersJones |
Constructive dismissal is where an employer behaves so badly the employee feels they have no choice but to resign. So (stating the obvious I know) an employee would have to resign to bring a claim, which they may be unwilling to do. Unfair dismissal could be a claim but (again stating the obvious) no one’s been dismissed yet. The more immediate issue is whether this is against the rules of the furlough scheme. I think the reason employers were asked to foot the bill for pensions and NI was to ensure that the scheme supported jobs where there was a reasonable chance of them carrying on post pandemic. |
Thanks - I meant unfair dismissal.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 13:12 - Mar 1 with 1221 views | jeera |
| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 13:00 - Mar 1 by SmithersJones |
Constructive dismissal is where an employer behaves so badly the employee feels they have no choice but to resign. So (stating the obvious I know) an employee would have to resign to bring a claim, which they may be unwilling to do. Unfair dismissal could be a claim but (again stating the obvious) no one’s been dismissed yet. The more immediate issue is whether this is against the rules of the furlough scheme. I think the reason employers were asked to foot the bill for pensions and NI was to ensure that the scheme supported jobs where there was a reasonable chance of them carrying on post pandemic. |
It's more like extortion.
In the past it wasn't that unusual for staff to agree to a temporary pay cut if the firm that employed them was in danger of closing down.
But of course this is something entirely different.
It's not like it's even wages the company are paying out, it is taxpayers money paid to staff to help them survive through this.
*realise you know all this, just tagging it onto your post becuase it's the last one I read. |  |
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| Why do we need unions? Part 562 on 13:20 - Mar 1 with 1185 views | factual_blue |
Tomahawk are just hard-working entrepreneurs, trying to make a living. |  |
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