| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 21:22 - Mar 23 with 1418 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:05 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I wish someone did for me earlier.
I feel like we are a generation that got stuck with the boomer expectations of life but the reality those opportunities are long dead. I also think it's why the younger generation seem more politically engaged than us millennials, as they've been thrown into the system as it falls apart and the illusion of middle class vanishes. |
Well f@ck those expectations....loads'a money w@nkers brought up on free further education and becoming the most self centered bunch of feckless wonders imaginable....or is that a bit harsh! |  |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 21:25 - Mar 23 with 1414 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:57 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
Don't tell him that. Let him have a few years before he realises the full crushing reality of life when he's surrounded by broken dreams and thought of how his life was meant to be so different.
(Sorry Rommers) |
"Rommers, the heroin years...how I smoked my horse and dag." | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 21:35 - Mar 23 with 1401 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:31 - Mar 23 by blueislander |
You seem to be proposing a left wing approach to the world’s problems, but actually , to my mind, your stance is more close to anarchism , which is apolitical, and supports lawlessness, and violence, although you seem to eschew violence. Extreme socialism basically results in a very oppressive state intervention. This doesn’t seem to fit in with your ideas either.. Can you clarify where you stand on the political spectrum. |
Some homework...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-pacifism
"Violence has always been controversial in anarchism. While many anarchists embraced violent propaganda of the deed during the nineteenth century, anarcho-pacifists directly opposed violence as a means for change. Tolstoy argued that anarchism must be nonviolent since it is, by definition, opposition to coercion and force, and that since the state is inherently violent, meaningful pacifism must likewise be anarchistic." | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:17 - Mar 23 with 1364 views | NeedhamChris |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:46 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
Anarchism doesn't automatically support violence on the whole. I'd call myself a passive anarchist personally, and I'd think the majority of anarchists I know would fit under the same umbrella.
Lawlessness doesn't mean pro-criminal but operating within a system where empathy, understanding and a strong moral compass would make law irrelevant.
Pie-in-the-sky madness in the modern or historic world as it would involve a mass conscious shift in society and what it values. Then again it's not like the present day we live in has been too great at dealing with crime either considering it's still everywhere. But identifying root causes would go a long way in improving that situation.
I should clarify this is all theory from a utopia perspective, as mentioned earlier I'm a dreamer.
I also probably abide by stricter rules in my personal life than the law requires of me, and certainly feel many normal elements of society like f**king others over for financial gain or funding the dairy industry should sit somewhere higher on a scale of moral issues than me deciding not to give those same people money by paying over the odds on a train ticket.
As for extreme socialism, what exactly do you mean? Can you give me an example of what constitutes extreme? I need a personal benchmark or literal example before I could really comment on if those issues relate to socialism or human corruption. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 20:49]
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Like many I support a lot of your views but the delivery turns me off. I also think this comes across as convenience.
These examples of train tickets and tesco all involve a benefit to you, under the banner of a ‘fairer society’. For the rest of us, when you steal you increase the prices for the rest of us as this is built into profit margins. It just sounds hypocritical to me unless as J2 mentions you’re rebalancing the value you’re saving by donating/spending on other causes.
The purism you talk about is difficult - I’m sure you’ve probably helped these big corporate companies in the past and your career benefits from them now? Is that immoral? |  |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:22 - Mar 23 with 1351 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:57 - Mar 23 by blueislander |
You are re-writing philosophy here. Anarchism traditionally does have to recognize the legitimacy of violence.
Extreme socialism would be what we saw with the Soviet bloc, which disintegrated into those in power forcing the oppression of the majority while the very tiny elite. Bathed in luxury. This appears to be what is happening now in China |
No I'm not, it's a widely accepted stance. Bankster has already addressed that one already. To assume all anarchistic believes legitimise violence simply isn't true.
It's important to remember the theories and thoughts of Trotsky and Lenin weren't realised in Stalin's regime and they certainly aren't in China.
I'd argue neither are socialist states or even Communist states, just corrupt to the core and when socialist ideals get hijacked by power-hungry sycophants the whole structure goes to pot as the two concepts are at odds with each other. China is two different states of economic system but with one version applied to the population and another applied to the super wealthy.
The difference for capitalism is the two go hand-in-hand and it will appear to thrive for a period under such management until wealth gaps become dangerous (which in itself is a subjective level).
It's important to remember ideology and historic application aren't the same thing, I'd argue as humans we are yet to solve this riddle as nothing actually works long term. |  |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:23 - Mar 23 with 1348 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 21:04 - Mar 23 by footers |
And there definitely isn't any oppression by an elite minority on the vast majority in western states, no siree. Things have never been so good. |
I think I said in another thread this week in regards to the Bristol riots that if this was happening in a country where the West didn't like the powers in charge it would be training the rioters in guerilla warfare and arming them. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:30 - Mar 23 with 1342 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:17 - Mar 23 by NeedhamChris |
Like many I support a lot of your views but the delivery turns me off. I also think this comes across as convenience.
These examples of train tickets and tesco all involve a benefit to you, under the banner of a ‘fairer society’. For the rest of us, when you steal you increase the prices for the rest of us as this is built into profit margins. It just sounds hypocritical to me unless as J2 mentions you’re rebalancing the value you’re saving by donating/spending on other causes.
The purism you talk about is difficult - I’m sure you’ve probably helped these big corporate companies in the past and your career benefits from them now? Is that immoral? |
The key is remembering no one is forcing you to pay for those train tickets either. If everyone joined in we'd likely change that corrupt system for the better with some fight in us.
Deflecting corporate greed onto those who refuse to take part feels like punching down to me.
And as mentioned to J2, the assumption I am largely doing these things for convenience is simply incorrect. I'm happy to pay towards anything that isn't exploitive (even though that choice is harder than ever in today's global landscape where a ripple can cause an earthquake the other side of the world.
I wouldn't argue it doesn't benefit me, but if you get past the fear of being told off by a copper essentially being paid by the state to enforce business fines on behalf of corporations you can have that benefit to.
As I say to my daughter, you don't HAVE to do anything, just consider and be willing to live with the consequences. That applies to basically EVERYTHING in life, even positive steps or actions. Each time one pipes up to call out a racist or sexist remark in the pub you accept you may take a kicking but the risk is worth it on principle. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 22:32]
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:34 - Mar 23 with 1328 views | wkj |
There are failings in the police and morally bankrupt police officers. That doesn't mean the police are morally bankrupt as a whole.
Linking a selection of bad, and serious, failings of the police to assert people should not defend the police force as a whole is a prejudice.
This is very much the same pattern someone has when they attempt to justify other prejudices like racism and xenophobia, such as linking articles to every terrorist attack in the last few years and concluding Muslims should not be defended.
I am not calling you a racist - but highlighting how this way of thinking is exactly the same pattern of presentation found in all prejudices to make us feel right or not such a bad person in our own minds.
Have a think about this - the whole police does not deserve to be judged so completely on the basis of times that clusters of police did terrible things/made terrible errors. |  |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:36 - Mar 23 with 1324 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:34 - Mar 23 by wkj |
There are failings in the police and morally bankrupt police officers. That doesn't mean the police are morally bankrupt as a whole.
Linking a selection of bad, and serious, failings of the police to assert people should not defend the police force as a whole is a prejudice.
This is very much the same pattern someone has when they attempt to justify other prejudices like racism and xenophobia, such as linking articles to every terrorist attack in the last few years and concluding Muslims should not be defended.
I am not calling you a racist - but highlighting how this way of thinking is exactly the same pattern of presentation found in all prejudices to make us feel right or not such a bad person in our own minds.
Have a think about this - the whole police does not deserve to be judged so completely on the basis of times that clusters of police did terrible things/made terrible errors. |
Being a police officer is a choice though. Read the thread geez, we've done this! | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:37 - Mar 23 with 1313 views | ZXBlue |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:36 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
Being a police officer is a choice though. Read the thread geez, we've done this! |
Its a choice made mostly for really good reasons.
Its not a story about goodies and baddies. | | | |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:41 - Mar 23 with 1304 views | wkj |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:36 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
Being a police officer is a choice though. Read the thread geez, we've done this! |
I did, and I tried to help - but you have doubled down on your prejudice. Not that I should have expected any other outcome. Congrats on your inevitable 10 pager, tally ho. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:58 - Mar 23 with 1264 views | jaykay |
my arse . ricky tomlinson has been cleared. something about statements been destroyed. accidents do happen  |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:59 - Mar 23 with 1264 views | NeedhamChris |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:30 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
The key is remembering no one is forcing you to pay for those train tickets either. If everyone joined in we'd likely change that corrupt system for the better with some fight in us.
Deflecting corporate greed onto those who refuse to take part feels like punching down to me.
And as mentioned to J2, the assumption I am largely doing these things for convenience is simply incorrect. I'm happy to pay towards anything that isn't exploitive (even though that choice is harder than ever in today's global landscape where a ripple can cause an earthquake the other side of the world.
I wouldn't argue it doesn't benefit me, but if you get past the fear of being told off by a copper essentially being paid by the state to enforce business fines on behalf of corporations you can have that benefit to.
As I say to my daughter, you don't HAVE to do anything, just consider and be willing to live with the consequences. That applies to basically EVERYTHING in life, even positive steps or actions. Each time one pipes up to call out a racist or sexist remark in the pub you accept you may take a kicking but the risk is worth it on principle. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 22:32]
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Maybe, or we'd descend into chaos if each individual was able to determine what is and isn't exploitative based?
I might have got the wrong person - but isn't your background SEO? I assume you get paid to drive people to these corporate companies. I'm not knocking that as you need to exist, but that's where I think it's hypocritical. The defining criteria as to whether you choose to take a stand does just seem to be whether you benefit or not. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 23:14 - Mar 23 with 1237 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:41 - Mar 23 by wkj |
I did, and I tried to help - but you have doubled down on your prejudice. Not that I should have expected any other outcome. Congrats on your inevitable 10 pager, tally ho. |
Weird flex, none of that has happened. We've been talking about institutional problems and root causes.
If it helps you get a few pile in uppies though, crack on. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 23:23 - Mar 23 with 1223 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 22:59 - Mar 23 by NeedhamChris |
Maybe, or we'd descend into chaos if each individual was able to determine what is and isn't exploitative based?
I might have got the wrong person - but isn't your background SEO? I assume you get paid to drive people to these corporate companies. I'm not knocking that as you need to exist, but that's where I think it's hypocritical. The defining criteria as to whether you choose to take a stand does just seem to be whether you benefit or not. |
The world is already in chaos, it's just very good at illusion in through propaganda and a feeling of safety wealthier parts of the world where your average citizen doesn't see much of that impact directly and obviously.
My background is still in SEO. I am a freelancer now though and get the freedom to choose who I work with. I have turned down work too, particularly notable was a leather shop which could have been a good payday for me.
I've mentioned in the past in previous roles I have been forced to work on things I dislike, alas using it as a GOTCHA is like that time a few posters thought eating meat in the past was a valid argument against my views on eating animals.
The world is a constant battle of choosing ethically vs what is available to one. Is going to Tesco to buy vegan food not as good as buying it from an independent local business? Of course not. Is going to Tesco to buy vegan food better than going to Tesco to buy meat which is further exploitive as an industry? Yes.
The challenge is the entire world is geared to set up to help you make the wrong choice, be it price, convenience or a lack of alternatives. But I am constantly re-evaluating how I can take on board criticism of my own choices and improve as opposed to what many do and bury their heads in the sand with lazy justification. There are still things I do now I wish I could avoid more, like for instance using supermarkets, and I've long been planning to start using the Food Co-Op via Radical Roots locally, but I also need to get my arse in gear with meal planning.
These lazy and half arsed generalisations based on assumptions really need to stop now though, I said I wouldn't engage with it and here I still am. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 23:30]
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 01:44 - Mar 27 with 1084 views | monytowbray |
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/25/police-retract-claims-that-offic
I guess they know best a lie is half way round the world before the truth as tied its laces.
Actual scenes of police brutality in Bristol this evening and assaulting journalists. I’m sure the good cops will be loud and clear on calling it out publicly of course.
Or should we debate the grey area of smashing people sat on the floor with the sharp end of a riot shield. [Post edited 27 Mar 2021 2:41]
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