| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls 08:55 - Mar 25 with 19902 views | gtsb1966 |
I wasn't too disappointed last year but this year i feel a bit deflated by the whole thing if I'm being honest. Usually go with a few mates for a week and then have another quiet week away to relax. Obviously needs must and all that but for some reason it has really peed me off. Anyway else feel the same. |  | | |  |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 23:38 - Mar 25 with 1545 views | Ryorry |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 23:26 - Mar 25 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So possibly never...I mean who knows what mutation is around the corner! |
Who knows indeed? But if everyone behaved with max responsibility and consideration for others, including getting vaccinated, keeping distanced & masked, & not travelling to high-risk areas, it would at least increase the chances of being able to return to something approaching the 'old normal' sooner. |  |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 06:24 - Mar 26 with 1490 views | textbackup |
have I missed something, has there been an announcement saying holidays are off then?
because at this rate i'm gonna have about £5k credit with Tui [Post edited 26 Mar 2021 7:21]
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:19 - Mar 26 with 1456 views | StokieBlue |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 23:26 - Mar 25 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So possibly never...I mean who knows what mutation is around the corner! |
The point is you can minimise the risk of mutations happening (lower viral population due to vaccination) and you can minimise the risk of the mutation making it to the UK (border controls).
Once the first point is established over good portions of many countries the second can be relaxed with far less risk.
If they suddenly opened up and the SA variant surged here with current levels of vaccination you'd be all over their case.
SB |  | | |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:33 - Mar 26 with 1446 views | bluelagos |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:19 - Mar 26 by StokieBlue |
The point is you can minimise the risk of mutations happening (lower viral population due to vaccination) and you can minimise the risk of the mutation making it to the UK (border controls).
Once the first point is established over good portions of many countries the second can be relaxed with far less risk.
If they suddenly opened up and the SA variant surged here with current levels of vaccination you'd be all over their case.
SB |
Morning Stokie,
Doesnt that only work if the vaccines stop you catching and stop you transmitting the vaccine?
If they do, great, we can travel etc.
If they don't, then there will always be a risk and we will never be able to fully open up our borders for free travel without testing/quarantines in some form? |  |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:38 - Mar 26 with 1444 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 23:38 - Mar 25 by Ryorry |
Who knows indeed? But if everyone behaved with max responsibility and consideration for others, including getting vaccinated, keeping distanced & masked, & not travelling to high-risk areas, it would at least increase the chances of being able to return to something approaching the 'old normal' sooner. |
In what way would getting on a plane with other vaccinated/tested people...going to a self contained holiday apartment or for that matter driving to a campsite....spending time on a beach and then self catering/eating outdoors not be acting with max responsibility? |  |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:51 - Mar 26 with 1426 views | WeWereZombies |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:38 - Mar 26 by BanksterDebtSlave |
In what way would getting on a plane with other vaccinated/tested people...going to a self contained holiday apartment or for that matter driving to a campsite....spending time on a beach and then self catering/eating outdoors not be acting with max responsibility? |
To be honest I think you and Ryorry are both muddying the waters by using absolute terms incorrectly. We need to use a scalar approach (or look at the spectrum to use the in vogue term) for threats that are nigh on impossible to quantify completely.
You cannot assume that a vaccination will be one hundred percent effective, either in giving the recipient immunity or in preventing them transmitting a disease that they are carrying passively. You have to assign a probability and be ready to revise that probability if new evidence emerges. Likewise, you cannot just stop everything when a threat emerges. Again a probability needs to be assigned and revised as the adequacy of response is assessed.
It's a bit like one of our defenders seeing an opposition forward bursting into the penalty area - do they tackle and give away a penalty, do they hope that Holy will make a save, or do they hoof? |  |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:59 - Mar 26 with 1411 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:51 - Mar 26 by WeWereZombies |
To be honest I think you and Ryorry are both muddying the waters by using absolute terms incorrectly. We need to use a scalar approach (or look at the spectrum to use the in vogue term) for threats that are nigh on impossible to quantify completely.
You cannot assume that a vaccination will be one hundred percent effective, either in giving the recipient immunity or in preventing them transmitting a disease that they are carrying passively. You have to assign a probability and be ready to revise that probability if new evidence emerges. Likewise, you cannot just stop everything when a threat emerges. Again a probability needs to be assigned and revised as the adequacy of response is assessed.
It's a bit like one of our defenders seeing an opposition forward bursting into the penalty area - do they tackle and give away a penalty, do they hope that Holy will make a save, or do they hoof? |
I agree...life is a series of risk assessments and choice. Hopefully the gubberment do not limit the parameters of those individual choices to too great an extent going forward. | |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:04 - Mar 26 with 1399 views | bluelagos |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:59 - Mar 26 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I agree...life is a series of risk assessments and choice. Hopefully the gubberment do not limit the parameters of those individual choices to too great an extent going forward. |
You trip is late summer right? Long time for things to fall in place. Long time for things to go wrong.
Think the uncertainty is the only thing that is certain! | |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:40 - Mar 26 with 1368 views | StokieBlue |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 07:33 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
Morning Stokie,
Doesnt that only work if the vaccines stop you catching and stop you transmitting the vaccine?
If they do, great, we can travel etc.
If they don't, then there will always be a risk and we will never be able to fully open up our borders for free travel without testing/quarantines in some form? |
Well I think that is 2 fold:
- Being vaccinated means that you get much less viral load in your system and evolution is driven by 2 things: need and numbers. If you eliminate as many of the numbers as possible then you reduce the pathways for successful mutations to evolve.
- It does look like vaccines reduce the transmission of the virus (possibly due to the lower viral loads a person will have) so if the vast majority of people are vaccinated the loads being passed around will continue to shrink until the underlying instances of the virus are far lower.
Borders will open up for free travel, it's just important that this isn't done too soon in my opinion. I know people are impatient, I'd love to go away and had to cancel a few important trips already but we know that doing things by halves only tends to make things worse with regards to C19.
SB | | | |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:47 - Mar 26 with 1353 views | bluelagos |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:40 - Mar 26 by StokieBlue |
Well I think that is 2 fold:
- Being vaccinated means that you get much less viral load in your system and evolution is driven by 2 things: need and numbers. If you eliminate as many of the numbers as possible then you reduce the pathways for successful mutations to evolve.
- It does look like vaccines reduce the transmission of the virus (possibly due to the lower viral loads a person will have) so if the vast majority of people are vaccinated the loads being passed around will continue to shrink until the underlying instances of the virus are far lower.
Borders will open up for free travel, it's just important that this isn't done too soon in my opinion. I know people are impatient, I'd love to go away and had to cancel a few important trips already but we know that doing things by halves only tends to make things worse with regards to C19.
SB |
I wonder if we'll quite quickly get to stage where upon arrival, everyone is tested and those who are positive will have to quarantine. (Hotel for visitors, home for residents)
If you are relying on a pre flight test, can imagine they will be easily faked. So would think a test on arrival to be way more effective at catching those infected. | |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:54 - Mar 26 with 1343 views | ElderGrizzly |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 17:21 - Mar 25 by J2BLUE |
Quite right but that is what we will do. A young person living in Britain's life is more important to the government than ten people living in another country. It would be political suicide.
It's a horrible situation. I'm not saying I agree with the government. I can just see the position they are in. Another thing is we've asked the young to basically give up a year of their lives to keep the older generations safe. If we now say the older generations have been vaccinated but you can wait even longer it's not a good look. Or fair. |
Australia are talking of diverting vaccines to lower-income countries, plus we have the Covax scheme sending vaccines to poorer countries |  | | |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:59 - Mar 26 with 1328 views | ElderGrizzly |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:47 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
I wonder if we'll quite quickly get to stage where upon arrival, everyone is tested and those who are positive will have to quarantine. (Hotel for visitors, home for residents)
If you are relying on a pre flight test, can imagine they will be easily faked. So would think a test on arrival to be way more effective at catching those infected. |
This summer we are likely to see tests before travel and importantly on return to the UK for all.
Test results can be checked and will only be ‘viable’ if recorded through certain services. You can’t simply take a lateral flow test at home and pop off on holiday. | | | |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:00 - Mar 26 with 1328 views | WeWereZombies |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:47 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
I wonder if we'll quite quickly get to stage where upon arrival, everyone is tested and those who are positive will have to quarantine. (Hotel for visitors, home for residents)
If you are relying on a pre flight test, can imagine they will be easily faked. So would think a test on arrival to be way more effective at catching those infected. |
When I went through Tocumen airport in Panama, mid-November the Covid test I had had done in Glasgow (in a small room in a crowded pre-Christmas Boots in a crowded Braehead shopping centre) was already half a day out of date. They saw a certificate in English on my phone and waved me through. I think some people have made it out there by waving an old MOT certificate at the three customs officials sitting at a folding table in masks and those flimsy aprons before you get to passport control. | |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:01 - Mar 26 with 1324 views | StokieBlue |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:47 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
I wonder if we'll quite quickly get to stage where upon arrival, everyone is tested and those who are positive will have to quarantine. (Hotel for visitors, home for residents)
If you are relying on a pre flight test, can imagine they will be easily faked. So would think a test on arrival to be way more effective at catching those infected. |
I'm not really sure a country which is as busy with international connections can do enough tests on landing. We are talking hundreds of thousands of people each day who would need to wait around for results and realistically that would have to be lateral flow which is going to miss a good number of people who are positive. If it was PCR they need to all be kept somewhere, socially distanced, for about 8 to 10 hours.
It's feasible in NZ and Iceland and places that aren't having streams of people entering each day but I don't see how it's feasible for somewhere like the UK.
I'm also not convinced about residents quarantining at home. All it takes is one or two people with the SA variant to ignore rules and we are back in a right mess.
SB | | | |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:02 - Mar 26 with 1322 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 08:59 - Mar 26 by ElderGrizzly |
This summer we are likely to see tests before travel and importantly on return to the UK for all.
Test results can be checked and will only be ‘viable’ if recorded through certain services. You can’t simply take a lateral flow test at home and pop off on holiday. |
Kerching!, | |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:03 - Mar 26 with 1318 views | ElderGrizzly |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:02 - Mar 26 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Kerching!, |
Indeed. Check those Tory owners of testing services :) | | | |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:04 - Mar 26 with 1318 views | StokieBlue |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:02 - Mar 26 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Kerching!, |
It's clearly the right thing to do.
Now of course some of the services might be owned by the Tories mates but that doesn't make it the wrong thing to implement, it just means the government are awful.
SB [Post edited 26 Mar 2021 9:04]
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:08 - Mar 26 with 1308 views | bluelagos |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:04 - Mar 26 by StokieBlue |
It's clearly the right thing to do.
Now of course some of the services might be owned by the Tories mates but that doesn't make it the wrong thing to implement, it just means the government are awful.
SB [Post edited 26 Mar 2021 9:04]
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One issue looking forward though is that if the cost is prohibitive, then travel becomes the preserve of the wealthy. Which can't be right.
I know my nephew paid like £250+ for a quick PCR test back end of last year.
Get the costs down to £50 and it's a whole lot fairer. | |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:08 - Mar 26 with 1306 views | blueconscience |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 10:58 - Mar 25 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What's the problem if everyone is immunised and/or tested? |
All these rules don’t seem to be doing the vaccine drive any favours, as you will still face the same restrictions regardless of having it or not. |  |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:10 - Mar 26 with 1306 views | WeWereZombies |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:01 - Mar 26 by StokieBlue |
I'm not really sure a country which is as busy with international connections can do enough tests on landing. We are talking hundreds of thousands of people each day who would need to wait around for results and realistically that would have to be lateral flow which is going to miss a good number of people who are positive. If it was PCR they need to all be kept somewhere, socially distanced, for about 8 to 10 hours.
It's feasible in NZ and Iceland and places that aren't having streams of people entering each day but I don't see how it's feasible for somewhere like the UK.
I'm also not convinced about residents quarantining at home. All it takes is one or two people with the SA variant to ignore rules and we are back in a right mess.
SB |
'It's feasible in NZ and Iceland and places that aren't having streams of people entering each day but I don't see how it's feasible for somewhere like the UK.'
Maybe you have just inadvertently given an indication of the long term economic effects, and which nations will thrive and which will fall, should Covid-19 be just the first of many pandemics, or other 'million dead' threats to human existence. | |
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| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:14 - Mar 26 with 1302 views | StokieBlue |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:08 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
One issue looking forward though is that if the cost is prohibitive, then travel becomes the preserve of the wealthy. Which can't be right.
I know my nephew paid like £250+ for a quick PCR test back end of last year.
Get the costs down to £50 and it's a whole lot fairer. |
Indeed, although historically travel has always been the preserve of the wealthy. It's been excellent that it's become more affordable to the masses.
Unfortunately if we want to get to carbon neutral it's probably going to have to be that way again over the next 20 years or so. 15 quid per seat flights, 4 times a day by a single plane isn't going to cut down emissions.
Nobody wants to hear it (me included) but flying is awful for the environment (~15% of UK emissions). I say this as someone who does fly quite a bit so I am also part of the problem but I do fear that if the kids don't see things now it's going to be prohibitively expensive to see things in 30 years time.
SB | | | |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:17 - Mar 26 with 1297 views | WeWereZombies |
| No holidays abroad really is a kick in the balls on 09:08 - Mar 26 by bluelagos |
One issue looking forward though is that if the cost is prohibitive, then travel becomes the preserve of the wealthy. Which can't be right.
I know my nephew paid like £250+ for a quick PCR test back end of last year.
Get the costs down to £50 and it's a whole lot fairer. |
Must be a helluva premium for getting that quick test, my Boots test was £120 and I thought that was prohibitive (result arrived about thirty five hours later) and the one I took in Panama before returning was U$84 (came through as sixty two quid on the credit card) and got the result about twenty four hours later. | |
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