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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... 03:04 - Apr 10 with 3831 viewsSpruceMoose

...haven't they?

Not only that, but the supposed left wing opposition powers, along with many unions themselves, seem to have utterly failed at advancing an argument as to why unionisation and work rights are so important to everyday people like you and me. Depressing times we are living in.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56695667
[Post edited 10 Apr 3:12]

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 12:04 - Apr 11 with 759 viewsBlueandTruesince82

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 11:26 - Apr 11 by monytowbray

How did you connect those dots from this post?


That's just one dot in a series

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 12:38 - Apr 11 with 710 viewsHotShotHamish

Isn't this called democracy?
The workers voted 2.5 to 1 to reject the proposal so they should be listened to.

I do find it amazing how many on this board think their own opinion to be worth more than those actually involved. Unions have struggled to represent their workers for decades and are mostly run for the benefit of a tiny minority. Many workers who've needed Union help when in a spot of bother find them to be toothless and unhelpful when it really matters.
Unions no longer have the power to collectively bargain so they really are just a waste of time
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 12:42 - Apr 11 with 701 viewsSpruceMoose

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 12:38 - Apr 11 by HotShotHamish

Isn't this called democracy?
The workers voted 2.5 to 1 to reject the proposal so they should be listened to.

I do find it amazing how many on this board think their own opinion to be worth more than those actually involved. Unions have struggled to represent their workers for decades and are mostly run for the benefit of a tiny minority. Many workers who've needed Union help when in a spot of bother find them to be toothless and unhelpful when it really matters.
Unions no longer have the power to collectively bargain so they really are just a waste of time


There's definitely a section of the forum that consists of posters who love to play the professional victim, that's for sure.

I already said unions are partly to blame in my original post, so I'm not sure why you're saying it like the thought never occurred to me. That doesn't change the fact that every single working right had to be fought for and was not freely given.
[Post edited 11 Apr 12:42]

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 12:50 - Apr 11 with 686 viewsdeliasplums

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 04:01 - Apr 10 by urbanblue

Same here in Australia ... Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind.


Funnily enough, three jurisdictions where Murdoch has a significant foothold. What a coincidence.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 16:05 - Apr 11 with 637 viewsLeaky

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:07 - Apr 10 by GeoffSentence

Never ceases to amaze me how many people who aren't rich or powerful, vote for the party of the rich and powerful this side of the pond.


Because the alternatives are very poor
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 16:19 - Apr 11 with 631 viewsLeaky

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:48 - Apr 10 by GaryCooper

Unions have been a major driver for good.

But this is Socialism defined.

https://news.sky.com/story/unite-boss-mccluskey-faces-calls-for-inquiry-over-98m


Wasn't it Arthur Scargill who started with a large Union & a small bungalow. Ended up with a small union & a large bungalow
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 16:21 - Apr 11 with 627 viewsHARRY10

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 08:15 - Apr 10 by 26_Paz

Some people aren’t socialists. Get over it.


Stop being silly

The BMA, the Bar Council, Police federatiins etc ALL recognise the need to act collectively to protect their financial and professional interests

The comments being made are ones of astonishment that those most in need of such collective action seem unable to grasp that fact
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 16:56 - Apr 11 with 596 viewsTimefliesbyintheblue

The CBI - probably the most influential union in the country. (will leave others to decide if that is for the better!)
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:07 - Apr 11 with 596 viewsgazzer1999

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:29 - Apr 10 by borge

Yes, appreciate the US is a very different kettle of fish. We have clients there and sometimes find someone is there one day and the next their role has been 'eliminated'.

And yes, quite possibly ref unions and the UK, but I think it is also down to culture. America seems to have a culture which combines fear (of getting fired if you speak up) and hope ("this time next year....").


I think you will find the fear factor in this country as well especially in big organisations. Whistle blowers do not last very long in all walks of life. The health service is a classic example, doctors have spoken out and been sacked, even in government it happens.
As regards this 'time next year' don't we all secretly hope that?
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:21 - Apr 11 with 577 viewsHARRY10

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:07 - Apr 11 by gazzer1999

I think you will find the fear factor in this country as well especially in big organisations. Whistle blowers do not last very long in all walks of life. The health service is a classic example, doctors have spoken out and been sacked, even in government it happens.
As regards this 'time next year' don't we all secretly hope that?


in the UK we hope

in the US it is more a firmly held belief

otherwise, it is not new

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:23 - Apr 11 with 570 viewsjeera

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 16:19 - Apr 11 by Leaky

Wasn't it Arthur Scargill who started with a large Union & a small bungalow. Ended up with a small union & a large bungalow


That's not an argument against socialism, nor unions either.

That's cause for an investigation of funds usage.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:38 - Apr 11 with 563 viewsChurchman

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 16:19 - Apr 11 by Leaky

Wasn't it Arthur Scargill who started with a large Union & a small bungalow. Ended up with a small union & a large bungalow


Whatever Scargill’s failings, and there are plenty of them, it should not be forgotten that the 1980s strikes which gave Thatcher the excuse to do what she did were about trying to protect jobs and communities. Everything the steelworkers and miners predicted and fought against came to pass.

I would add that about 20 years before, the Aberfan disaster happened. It was caused by NCB neglect. From Wikipedia: ‘The Aberfan Disaster Memorial Fund (ADMF) was set up on the day of the disaster. It received nearly 88,000 contributions, totalling £1.75 million. The remaining tips were removed only after a lengthy fight by Aberfan residents, against resistance from the NCB and the government on the grounds of cost. Clearing was paid for by a government grant and a forced contribution of £150,000 taken from the memorial fund.’

If ever there was a reason for the Unions to exist, it’s to fight against this sort of thing. Please don’t tell me greed and stupidity isn’t still out there. Of course it is. Many of the health and safety safeguards in place are thanks to unions looking after their members. There is lots of good things unions can do and do so. They need to evolve and change as everything does, but there is a place for them. No rhetoric or propaganda will ever change that.
[Post edited 11 Apr 17:39]
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:58 - Apr 11 with 537 viewsTimefliesbyintheblue

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:38 - Apr 11 by Churchman

Whatever Scargill’s failings, and there are plenty of them, it should not be forgotten that the 1980s strikes which gave Thatcher the excuse to do what she did were about trying to protect jobs and communities. Everything the steelworkers and miners predicted and fought against came to pass.

I would add that about 20 years before, the Aberfan disaster happened. It was caused by NCB neglect. From Wikipedia: ‘The Aberfan Disaster Memorial Fund (ADMF) was set up on the day of the disaster. It received nearly 88,000 contributions, totalling £1.75 million. The remaining tips were removed only after a lengthy fight by Aberfan residents, against resistance from the NCB and the government on the grounds of cost. Clearing was paid for by a government grant and a forced contribution of £150,000 taken from the memorial fund.’

If ever there was a reason for the Unions to exist, it’s to fight against this sort of thing. Please don’t tell me greed and stupidity isn’t still out there. Of course it is. Many of the health and safety safeguards in place are thanks to unions looking after their members. There is lots of good things unions can do and do so. They need to evolve and change as everything does, but there is a place for them. No rhetoric or propaganda will ever change that.
[Post edited 11 Apr 17:39]


I would have been proud to have written that Churchman - it is word for word my own thoughts. Not sure I could have written it so eloquently though.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:55 - Apr 11 with 507 viewsgazzer1999

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:21 - Apr 11 by HARRY10

in the UK we hope

in the US it is more a firmly held belief

otherwise, it is not new



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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:23 - Apr 13 with 377 viewsLeaky

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 09:29 - Apr 10 by Churchman

I have worked in places with no representation, ‘staff associations’ and my last job, a proper Trade Union (still an associate member). I know which I prefer.

As another poster has suggested, this is actually not about being a socialist. This is about representation. It’s about having support if you need it and access to a pool of knowledge too.

The Trade Unions are still defined by their image of the 60s and 70s, beer and sandwiches at no 10, Red Robbo, King Arthur, pickets, braziers, with burning pallet wood in them.

That’s the image but the reality is different. The boss of my union has been hammered in the press in the past. I’ve met him a couple of times and know people that have worked with him. He is not as his image was portrayed. I also did some study work on the steelworkers and miners strike in the 80s and visited Sheffield, by chance. That was not as the media portrayed it either. The press have a lot to answer for.


I think you nailed it in your third paragraph, I remember going for a job interview in 1966 at a paper mill in St.Neots. As part of of the interview I was informed I would need to join the union as the firm had a closed shop policy. I walked out of the interview as I thought I should have a choice. Not a bad stance for a 15 year old.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:36 - Apr 13 with 362 viewsHARRY10

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:23 - Apr 13 by Leaky

I think you nailed it in your third paragraph, I remember going for a job interview in 1966 at a paper mill in St.Neots. As part of of the interview I was informed I would need to join the union as the firm had a closed shop policy. I walked out of the interview as I thought I should have a choice. Not a bad stance for a 15 year old.


just as they had a choice to stand united to defend their interests
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 19:24 - Apr 13 with 339 viewsRyorry

Bit OTT for Woolfenden simply winning a free kick ...

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