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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... 03:04 - Apr 10 with 3830 viewsSpruceMoose

...haven't they?

Not only that, but the supposed left wing opposition powers, along with many unions themselves, seem to have utterly failed at advancing an argument as to why unionisation and work rights are so important to everyday people like you and me. Depressing times we are living in.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56695667
[Post edited 10 Apr 3:12]

Pronouns: He/Him/His
Poll: Selectamod

2
Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:30 - Apr 10 with 893 viewsgtsb1966

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:28 - Apr 10 by monytowbray

It’s their lyrics that make me feel ill. Norwich boycotted them for a gig a few years back and was successful.


I get where you're coming from there but I just like the music though. My favourite band from that era though are G.B.H.
[Post edited 10 Apr 15:32]
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:42 - Apr 10 with 880 viewsmonytowbray

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:30 - Apr 10 by gtsb1966

I get where you're coming from there but I just like the music though. My favourite band from that era though are G.B.H.
[Post edited 10 Apr 15:32]


Doom for me!

My thing with ANL is I get the world was a bit different 40 years back, but even by those standards that homophobic song they wrote was something else, and they refuse to denounce it or apologise.

I recently found out Bad Brains had similar valid accusations aimed their way which saddened me.

The truth is not the midpoint between a fact and a lie.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:53 - Apr 10 with 828 viewsGaryCooper

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 15:27 - Apr 10 by gtsb1966

I just like the band that's all. Music from my youth.


The correct answer should have been taken straight from So What.

So what, so what?
So what, so what, you boring little c..t
0

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:05 - Apr 10 with 829 viewsBlueandTruesince82

Unions..... run by people who live I grace and favour houses paid for by members who earn about 5 times less than they do and convincing them it's socialism, now that really is magic

Poll: Football is

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:08 - Apr 10 with 826 viewsSpruceMoose

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:05 - Apr 10 by BlueandTruesince82

Unions..... run by people who live I grace and favour houses paid for by members who earn about 5 times less than they do and convincing them it's socialism, now that really is magic


Stick to calling women bitches mate. More your level.

Pronouns: He/Him/His
Poll: Selectamod

-1
Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:16 - Apr 10 with 823 viewsBlueandTruesince82

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:08 - Apr 10 by SpruceMoose

Stick to calling women bitches mate. More your level.


Wow.... You really dont like any one to have a diffrent opinion to you do you?

Poll: Football is

2

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:17 - Apr 10 with 815 viewsJDB23

When a company goes to the extent of chugging out anti-union adverts on streaming platforms and creating mass amounts of "Happy Amazon employee" twitter accounts, it's probably a sign you need a union.

Such a shame that billionaire owned media has so much influence on most of the working class. Still, not everything is a complete shtshow as the recent Uber ruling showed.
1
Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:19 - Apr 10 with 803 viewsChurchman

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 14:52 - Apr 10 by borge

"An employer to this day will always want the max for the least from an employee"....

That's a pretty sweeping statement and grossly unfair in the majority of cases.

I haven't worked in an industry where there are unions and have never worked for anything other than small companies so don't have much experience of unions. But, as someone who owns two companies and employs 20 people, I can assure you that as much as you may think workers have very limited rights, in certain instances they actually have more than their employer (granted, that assumes that the employer acts within the law).

Only this week there has been a conversation on here where someone has been encouraged to hand in their notice and then leave before their notice period ends. That is absolutely possible and there is very little an employer can do (unless they want to throw away money for very, very little gain).

Conversely, as an employer I cannot simply dispense of someone's services without opening myself up to significant legal action that will cost an awful lot to defend, I will likely lose and will possibly lead to substantial reputational damage. As long as that employee does an 'ok' job and doesn't physically assault me/a colleague/client (slightly flippant but to sack someone for gross misconduct they almost need to have punched someone) once they have been in post for two years there is almost zero I can sensibly do in terms of getting rid, whereas they can up and leave on the spot, head off to a competitor and know they are free of consequences.

That's not to say that unions aren't worthwhile. Although I have no direct experience I am completely conscious that if you work for a massive company that is only concerned with delivering for shareholders, you are more exposed to unscrupulous behaviour.

But, your statement is greatly unfair to the many, many good employers that do care for their employees and realise that doing the right thing by employees has a very big impact on the bottom line.


I’m sure there are really good employers out there. Cadbury’s who I cited earlier were of course Quakers, so took a more philanthropic view. Henry Ford didn’t!

One company I worked for was a private company. They were ok with me and pay/expenses etc were good. It was a dynamic interesting place to work and I enjoyed it.

But I saw them on a Friday tell a bloke to not come back Monday (he hadn’t pinched anything; just made a mistake) and that he could whistle for his statutory rights as they could afford the best lawyers money could provide. And out he went. How, on his own, with no knowledge of the law and the need to get work was he going to fight that? You can sue etc, but good luck with that in this country.

My view is a general one. I’ve worked in the public sector, retail banking world and done contract work, daily rate and short term but my experience is one persons so limited. I’m sure there are some marvellous employers in this world, but history in this country says there are some awful ones too. Why? Because companies exist mainly to maximise profit. It’s how it works. The 19c Dockworkers strikes and the Matchgirls (Bryant and Mays) come to that, didn’t do what they did for a good day out. Unions were and are necessary wherever they are feasible. Without them you are vulnerable.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:30 - Apr 10 with 779 viewsTimefliesbyintheblue

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:19 - Apr 10 by Churchman

I’m sure there are really good employers out there. Cadbury’s who I cited earlier were of course Quakers, so took a more philanthropic view. Henry Ford didn’t!

One company I worked for was a private company. They were ok with me and pay/expenses etc were good. It was a dynamic interesting place to work and I enjoyed it.

But I saw them on a Friday tell a bloke to not come back Monday (he hadn’t pinched anything; just made a mistake) and that he could whistle for his statutory rights as they could afford the best lawyers money could provide. And out he went. How, on his own, with no knowledge of the law and the need to get work was he going to fight that? You can sue etc, but good luck with that in this country.

My view is a general one. I’ve worked in the public sector, retail banking world and done contract work, daily rate and short term but my experience is one persons so limited. I’m sure there are some marvellous employers in this world, but history in this country says there are some awful ones too. Why? Because companies exist mainly to maximise profit. It’s how it works. The 19c Dockworkers strikes and the Matchgirls (Bryant and Mays) come to that, didn’t do what they did for a good day out. Unions were and are necessary wherever they are feasible. Without them you are vulnerable.


If it were not for Trade Unions we would still be sending little boys (and probably girls) up chimneys.
They too, unfortunately though, do not all behave at times as they should, and it is not just 'bosses' that feather their own nests at times.
Working conditions, holidays, health and safety etc have come a long way in the last five decades - more to be done though and it will be done; slower than we all would like though.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:48 - Apr 10 with 760 viewsGaryCooper

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:05 - Apr 10 by BlueandTruesince82

Unions..... run by people who live I grace and favour houses paid for by members who earn about 5 times less than they do and convincing them it's socialism, now that really is magic


Unions have been a major driver for good.

But this is Socialism defined.

https://news.sky.com/story/unite-boss-mccluskey-faces-calls-for-inquiry-over-98m
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:55 - Apr 10 with 748 viewsBlueandTruesince82

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:48 - Apr 10 by GaryCooper

Unions have been a major driver for good.

But this is Socialism defined.

https://news.sky.com/story/unite-boss-mccluskey-faces-calls-for-inquiry-over-98m


Quite.

Unions run properly are a very good idea but too many union chairs use them as personal fiefdoms. Imagine earning a 6 figure salary and then getting people who earn 20 to 30k a year to pay out of their salary for you to live free of charge in a grace and favour house... many examples of it. One has to ask if such people really have the interest of their members at heart?

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 19:02 - Apr 10 with 735 viewsBlueForYou

I've been self employed for 40 years. Never ever needed a union to sort out any issue. Only ever been "out of work" once, that was in 1990 during the worst recession ever. Soon got over it though. I like to think that I make my own luck in this world. People don't vote labour anymore because they don't see that as providing optimism, opportunity, prosperity. All Politicians lie, it's what they do! Just make the most of life! For me Unions are a hindrance, but to balance things, they did help my wife through a very difficult work grievance & helped negotiate a lucrative pay off deal. That's where they are really good.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 19:16 - Apr 10 with 710 viewsChurchman

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:30 - Apr 10 by Timefliesbyintheblue

If it were not for Trade Unions we would still be sending little boys (and probably girls) up chimneys.
They too, unfortunately though, do not all behave at times as they should, and it is not just 'bosses' that feather their own nests at times.
Working conditions, holidays, health and safety etc have come a long way in the last five decades - more to be done though and it will be done; slower than we all would like though.


Nah, the girls would be underneath looms picking up cotton, fixing stuff and getting chewed up in machinery for their trouble. The lucky ones maybe working in service to the likes of JRM goodness knows how many hours a day and sleeping in an attic.

When I think of my mums ancestors working as beatsters (net menders), gutting fish or in my grandmothers case the silk factory in Yarmouth, I think ahhh, the good ole days, they didn’t waste money on Union contributions. There weren’t any.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 19:40 - Apr 10 with 704 viewsmonytowbray

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 17:53 - Apr 10 by GaryCooper

The correct answer should have been taken straight from So What.

So what, so what?
So what, so what, you boring little c..t


You’re about as Punk as Nigel Farage.

The truth is not the midpoint between a fact and a lie.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 19:40 - Apr 10 with 703 viewsborge

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:19 - Apr 10 by Churchman

I’m sure there are really good employers out there. Cadbury’s who I cited earlier were of course Quakers, so took a more philanthropic view. Henry Ford didn’t!

One company I worked for was a private company. They were ok with me and pay/expenses etc were good. It was a dynamic interesting place to work and I enjoyed it.

But I saw them on a Friday tell a bloke to not come back Monday (he hadn’t pinched anything; just made a mistake) and that he could whistle for his statutory rights as they could afford the best lawyers money could provide. And out he went. How, on his own, with no knowledge of the law and the need to get work was he going to fight that? You can sue etc, but good luck with that in this country.

My view is a general one. I’ve worked in the public sector, retail banking world and done contract work, daily rate and short term but my experience is one persons so limited. I’m sure there are some marvellous employers in this world, but history in this country says there are some awful ones too. Why? Because companies exist mainly to maximise profit. It’s how it works. The 19c Dockworkers strikes and the Matchgirls (Bryant and Mays) come to that, didn’t do what they did for a good day out. Unions were and are necessary wherever they are feasible. Without them you are vulnerable.


Perhaps the issue is that people don't understand how well protected they are.

I work in a sector where everyone is pretty clued-up so it would be difficult for any employer to pull a fast one. I appreciate not everyone would feel able to take on their employer (and that is where unions have value) but it is by no means hard. There are so many lawyers who will take on a case on a no win no fee basis for disgruntled employees and there is far more for an employee to gain by taking their employer to a tribunal than there is a company taking an employee to court. What could the company gain? Repayment of a month's wages perhaps. For that the company has to prove 'loss' and that's by no means easy.

I've had two instances as an employer where I have been totally screwed over.

Firstly someone took a grievance template from a website specifically aimed at helping disgruntled employees screw over their employer. They swapped some basic details and raised a grievance covering race, disability and sexual discrimination. They didn't even bother to buy the full template and forgot to replace 'company x' with my company's name. None of the events they raised in the letter actually happened but because I could only disprove 90% I was advised that a tribunal would side with the employee and I could end up having to pay over £100k (a tribunal isn't like a court of law where if there is any doubt the case gets kicked out). Despite none of the allegations having an ounce of truth, I had to pay £20k to settle so that it wouldn't go to a tribunal. It was a very stressful time not only for me, but also for the rest of the team who had been accused of some pretty terrible things.

The second was when one of my directors (who I considered one of my best friends) left to start up in competition with someone who had just sold me another company (two people I had no reason to distrust). He sat there during his three month notice period downloading company documents and working in competition with us whilst all the time telling us he was going to do something in a totally different sector. I found out a week before his notice period was due to end. Despite very clearly breaking his restrictive covenant I could do nothing because I couldn't prove 'loss'. I was told that there was no point trying to dismiss him for gross misconduct during the final week because it would cost me a lot and gain me nothing.

So I certainly don't think that employees lack protection even without unions, but understand the benefit those unions might bring in some instances.

The truth is that there are bad employers and bad employees but the majority of both are absolutely fine.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 20:00 - Apr 10 with 696 viewsChurchman

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 19:40 - Apr 10 by borge

Perhaps the issue is that people don't understand how well protected they are.

I work in a sector where everyone is pretty clued-up so it would be difficult for any employer to pull a fast one. I appreciate not everyone would feel able to take on their employer (and that is where unions have value) but it is by no means hard. There are so many lawyers who will take on a case on a no win no fee basis for disgruntled employees and there is far more for an employee to gain by taking their employer to a tribunal than there is a company taking an employee to court. What could the company gain? Repayment of a month's wages perhaps. For that the company has to prove 'loss' and that's by no means easy.

I've had two instances as an employer where I have been totally screwed over.

Firstly someone took a grievance template from a website specifically aimed at helping disgruntled employees screw over their employer. They swapped some basic details and raised a grievance covering race, disability and sexual discrimination. They didn't even bother to buy the full template and forgot to replace 'company x' with my company's name. None of the events they raised in the letter actually happened but because I could only disprove 90% I was advised that a tribunal would side with the employee and I could end up having to pay over £100k (a tribunal isn't like a court of law where if there is any doubt the case gets kicked out). Despite none of the allegations having an ounce of truth, I had to pay £20k to settle so that it wouldn't go to a tribunal. It was a very stressful time not only for me, but also for the rest of the team who had been accused of some pretty terrible things.

The second was when one of my directors (who I considered one of my best friends) left to start up in competition with someone who had just sold me another company (two people I had no reason to distrust). He sat there during his three month notice period downloading company documents and working in competition with us whilst all the time telling us he was going to do something in a totally different sector. I found out a week before his notice period was due to end. Despite very clearly breaking his restrictive covenant I could do nothing because I couldn't prove 'loss'. I was told that there was no point trying to dismiss him for gross misconduct during the final week because it would cost me a lot and gain me nothing.

So I certainly don't think that employees lack protection even without unions, but understand the benefit those unions might bring in some instances.

The truth is that there are bad employers and bad employees but the majority of both are absolutely fine.


Re your third last paragraph, a golfing acquaintance of mine did a very same thing to his employers and the people concerned I also know. It nearly wound up in court as the amounts we are talking about were in the 100s of 1000s and the IP way beyond that. It got very messy.

Aside from the way he treated his old company and colleagues being basically wrong, his actions were mega stupid. Anything financial he was likely to gain was bound to be lost with his reputation in a very closed world. He is a very wealthy man, but for me his actions were nuts.

Yes, there are bad employers, bad employees and visa versa. For me the name of the game is balance and co-operation between all elements.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 20:21 - Apr 10 with 678 viewsborge

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 20:00 - Apr 10 by Churchman

Re your third last paragraph, a golfing acquaintance of mine did a very same thing to his employers and the people concerned I also know. It nearly wound up in court as the amounts we are talking about were in the 100s of 1000s and the IP way beyond that. It got very messy.

Aside from the way he treated his old company and colleagues being basically wrong, his actions were mega stupid. Anything financial he was likely to gain was bound to be lost with his reputation in a very closed world. He is a very wealthy man, but for me his actions were nuts.

Yes, there are bad employers, bad employees and visa versa. For me the name of the game is balance and co-operation between all elements.


Spot on with your last paragraph. I am in a fortunate position specifically because others are willing to work with me. If as an employer I didn't recognise, respect and reward that in a way that is balanced and fair then I would get nowhere very quickly! And shock-horror, the fairer I am the more people are willing to work with me.....it shouldn't be rocket science and it's sad that some employers (especially big ones) can afford to not get it.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 10:36 - Apr 11 with 599 viewsGaryCooper

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 19:40 - Apr 10 by monytowbray

You’re about as Punk as Nigel Farage.



Coming from the only anarchist that called for greater police powers during the first lockdown it is funny though.

This post has been edited by an administrator
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 10:56 - Apr 11 with 573 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:08 - Apr 10 by SpruceMoose

Stick to calling women bitches mate. More your level.


A pretty crap reply to a valid point....'no leaders' applies to union structures too!

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 11:25 - Apr 11 with 553 viewsmonytowbray

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 10:36 - Apr 11 by GaryCooper


Coming from the only anarchist that called for greater police powers during the first lockdown it is funny though.

This post has been edited by an administrator


I never called for greater police power, I called for the government to stop being useless, lying and valuing the economy over human life. I believe you told me to shut up and I was point scoring.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 11:26 - Apr 11 with 550 viewsmonytowbray

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:16 - Apr 10 by BlueandTruesince82

Wow.... You really dont like any one to have a diffrent opinion to you do you?


How did you connect those dots from this post?

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 11:30 - Apr 11 with 545 viewsJ2BLUE

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 10:36 - Apr 11 by GaryCooper


Coming from the only anarchist that called for greater police powers during the first lockdown it is funny though.

This post has been edited by an administrator


Having a bad day hun?

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 11:39 - Apr 11 with 529 viewsmonytowbray

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 11:30 - Apr 11 by J2BLUE

Having a bad day hun?


He’s quoting ANL lyrics at me. A poor song by a poor EDGELORD 80s punk band who are still going.

Personally, I think he should post these ANL lyrics just so everyone knows how PUNK he is...

The Day The World Turned Gay:
Celebrities are out there having fun
For examples to us all everyone
George Michael knows the price you have to pay
For looking around the marriages in a day
Now we've got poofs, queers, fs, ds and ladyboys and f transvestites
The day the world turned gay
Every-things acceptable today
It was the day the world turnt gay
Well I must of missed something along the way
Gay pride are out there marching on the town
They're holding hands with there trousers down
They're sniffing eachothers as just like dogs
They're being dirty and hanging around in bogs
'Cause we've got poofs, queers, fs, ds and ladyboys and f transvestites
The day the world turned gay
Every thing's acceptable today
It was the day the world turnt gay
Well I must of missed something along the way
Hphobia you say to me
Am I alone in a sick society?
Well there wont be a generation here to come
'Cause were a dead generation were a dead man leading on
'Cause we've got poofs, queers, fs, ds and ladyboys and f transvestites
The day the world turned gay
Every thing's acceptable today
It was the day the world turnt gay
Well I must of missed something along the way
It was the day the world turned gay
Every thing's acceptable today
It was the day the world turnt gay
Well I must of missed something along the way
Now we've got poofs, queers, fs, ds and ladyboys and f transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites


This song came out in 2006 by the way. Two thousand and six.

As I’ve said a few times, Joey Strummer would roll in his urn seeing GC’s posts next to his album cover.

I asked GTSB as I think he’s a reasonable chap and it surprised me he was using the logo. Maybe he’s not aware of the above.
[Post edited 11 Apr 11:42]

The truth is not the midpoint between a fact and a lie.
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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 11:41 - Apr 11 with 517 viewsJ2BLUE

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 11:39 - Apr 11 by monytowbray

He’s quoting ANL lyrics at me. A poor song by a poor EDGELORD 80s punk band who are still going.

Personally, I think he should post these ANL lyrics just so everyone knows how PUNK he is...

The Day The World Turned Gay:
Celebrities are out there having fun
For examples to us all everyone
George Michael knows the price you have to pay
For looking around the marriages in a day
Now we've got poofs, queers, fs, ds and ladyboys and f transvestites
The day the world turned gay
Every-things acceptable today
It was the day the world turnt gay
Well I must of missed something along the way
Gay pride are out there marching on the town
They're holding hands with there trousers down
They're sniffing eachothers as just like dogs
They're being dirty and hanging around in bogs
'Cause we've got poofs, queers, fs, ds and ladyboys and f transvestites
The day the world turned gay
Every thing's acceptable today
It was the day the world turnt gay
Well I must of missed something along the way
Hphobia you say to me
Am I alone in a sick society?
Well there wont be a generation here to come
'Cause were a dead generation were a dead man leading on
'Cause we've got poofs, queers, fs, ds and ladyboys and f transvestites
The day the world turned gay
Every thing's acceptable today
It was the day the world turnt gay
Well I must of missed something along the way
It was the day the world turned gay
Every thing's acceptable today
It was the day the world turnt gay
Well I must of missed something along the way
Now we've got poofs, queers, fs, ds and ladyboys and f transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites
F transvestites


This song came out in 2006 by the way. Two thousand and six.

As I’ve said a few times, Joey Strummer would roll in his urn seeing GC’s posts next to his album cover.

I asked GTSB as I think he’s a reasonable chap and it surprised me he was using the logo. Maybe he’s not aware of the above.
[Post edited 11 Apr 11:42]


Ahh, cheers.

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Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 11:49 - Apr 11 with 501 viewsmonytowbray

Man, the right wing have really worked their magic on the poor... on 18:17 - Apr 10 by JDB23

When a company goes to the extent of chugging out anti-union adverts on streaming platforms and creating mass amounts of "Happy Amazon employee" twitter accounts, it's probably a sign you need a union.

Such a shame that billionaire owned media has so much influence on most of the working class. Still, not everything is a complete shtshow as the recent Uber ruling showed.


Forgot about the Amazon bribes!

The truth is not the midpoint between a fact and a lie.
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0

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