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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? 19:54 - Nov 2 with 246799 viewsnoggin

Yeah but Owen Jones...
[Post edited 3 Nov 2023 9:05]

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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 15:07 - Nov 6 with 3828 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 14:09 - Nov 6 by phillymark

Any mention of Jew murder? Hostages? Is that part of your equation at all? How about the Nazi rhetoric of Hamas?


Those weren’t anything to do my point here.

But I can and will condemn both Hamas and the Israeli government for crimes against humanity fuelled by ethno-religious hatred. And their monstrous indifference to innocent civilian lives.

We need to be offering peace and dialogue to the people who can take it, not support for either of these extremist positions and a perpetuation of the cycle of violence.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palestinian and Israeli lives must be needlessly taken ? on 15:10 - Nov 6 with 3817 viewsBuhrer

How many Palestinian and Israeli lives must be needlessly taken ? on 12:10 - Nov 6 by WeWereZombies

There are probably posters reading this thread with thoughts of it all being far away and nothing to do with them but your demand for us to ask questions of ourselves is close to my position. When we are part of a nation that appears to be focusing on what can be done to put demonstrators in jail rather than what pressure do we press upon foreign powers and terrorist groups to desist from oppression then we have to understand our complicity in matters. Hate crimes that involve verbal abuse should certainly be called out but the paramount matter in hand is to stop the killing, violence and destruction.


How times change.... I remember in my optimistic yoof the government just ignored a million protestors. In my nihilistic middling years they're looking at making them all illegal. I'd protest but .....
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:16 - Nov 6 with 3770 viewsleitrimblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:15 - Nov 6 by phillymark

Who the F*** are you to claim that this is "honesty"? What do you know? The minister was suspended by the way.


You don't think he was being honest Phil?
Or you don't believe there is a proportion of the Israeli population that feels this way? Just because you might not like to hear it doesn't mean it wasn't said
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:24 - Nov 6 with 3704 viewslowhouseblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 14:58 - Nov 6 by Darth_Koont

Sigh.

Can you take your bad faith-agenda somewhere else? You have nothing to say.


anyone who summarises the politics and history of the situation as "the Israeli government has been oppressing another people throughout" either has a blinkered anti-israeli agenda or is a simpleton.

just following trump respond to the fraud trial - "weaponisation, they call it". birds of a feather and all that.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:27 - Nov 6 with 3679 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:24 - Nov 6 by lowhouseblue

anyone who summarises the politics and history of the situation as "the Israeli government has been oppressing another people throughout" either has a blinkered anti-israeli agenda or is a simpleton.

just following trump respond to the fraud trial - "weaponisation, they call it". birds of a feather and all that.


You’re a weird little man.

And as disingenuous as ever in the name of your odd politics.

Pronouns: He/Him

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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 15:28 - Nov 6 with 3676 viewsleitrimblue

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 14:06 - Nov 6 by phillymark

Then return the hostages.


So until the hostages are returned your OK with the daily murder of hundreds of innocent women and children?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:32 - Nov 6 with 3644 viewsBlueschev

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:24 - Nov 6 by lowhouseblue

anyone who summarises the politics and history of the situation as "the Israeli government has been oppressing another people throughout" either has a blinkered anti-israeli agenda or is a simpleton.

just following trump respond to the fraud trial - "weaponisation, they call it". birds of a feather and all that.


Can you honestly point to any moment in history, post 1948, where the Palestinian people have not been subject to some form of Israeli oppression?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:02 - Nov 6 with 3565 viewslowhouseblue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:32 - Nov 6 by Blueschev

Can you honestly point to any moment in history, post 1948, where the Palestinian people have not been subject to some form of Israeli oppression?


1948 being the first invasion of israel by its neighbours? there is no one-sided version of history here.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:05 - Nov 6 with 3542 viewsBlueschev

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 16:02 - Nov 6 by lowhouseblue

1948 being the first invasion of israel by its neighbours? there is no one-sided version of history here.


I don't believe there is either. I just asked if you could point to any time since 1948 that the Palestinian people have not faced some form of oppression from Israel?
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:53 - Nov 6 with 3397 viewsRyorry

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 15:32 - Nov 6 by Blueschev

Can you honestly point to any moment in history, post 1948, where the Palestinian people have not been subject to some form of Israeli oppression?


Can you honestly point to any moment in history, going back around a couple of millennia, when Jewish people haven’t been subject to some form of oppression and downright persecution?

Arguably the Balfour Declaration was not the root cause of this intractable conflict. If Israel hadn’t been founded, what other habitable but not yet inhabited place where Jewish people could both feel and be safe, would it have been possible to allocate them?

Poll: Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? 🤔

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How many Israeli and Palestinian lives are sufficient ? on 18:23 - Nov 6 with 3347 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Israeli and Palestinian lives is sufficient ? on 14:10 - Nov 6 by phillymark

Did the IRA have the elimination of all British people as one of its stated aims?


Firstly, which IRA ? Or indeed Sinn Fein - who to my knowledge are not campaigning for the removal of British people from Ireland. But as we delve deeper into the labyrinth of the Official IRA, the Provisional and the Continuity I think you will find voices who want all British people, including Scots 'Planters' who have been there for centuries, out of the island of Ireland.

And to use this post to address a point a couple of other posters have questioned on the tactics of terrorism, would we at the time have used the horrendous practice of 'necklacing', placing a tyre full of burning petrol around the neck of informers and double agents in Soweto by ANC extremists as a reason for argument against teh overthrow of apartheid ?

Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

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How many Israeli and Palestinian lives will end earlier than they need to ? on 18:36 - Nov 6 with 3318 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 17:53 - Nov 6 by Ryorry

Can you honestly point to any moment in history, going back around a couple of millennia, when Jewish people haven’t been subject to some form of oppression and downright persecution?

Arguably the Balfour Declaration was not the root cause of this intractable conflict. If Israel hadn’t been founded, what other habitable but not yet inhabited place where Jewish people could both feel and be safe, would it have been possible to allocate them?


'what other habitable but not yet inhabited place'

I know that this not what you mean but these statements can get picked up and twisted by other posters. The land that the state of Israel was founded upon was already inhabited in 1948, mainly by Palestinians but also by Bedouins, Armenian Orthodox and other Christian faiths. Jerusalem is a bit of a draw for the religious. It is not the only territory where mass displacements occurred in the decade following the Second World War, you could even call it relatively trouble free compared with the partition of India, or subsequently as anyone who has gone on holiday in Cyprus can see. But of course, no people had suffered anything like the Holocaust.

Edit: Thread title changed
[Post edited 6 Nov 2023 19:53]

Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 19:29 - Nov 6 with 3246 viewsRyorry

How many Israeli and Palestinian lives will end earlier than they need to ? on 18:36 - Nov 6 by WeWereZombies

'what other habitable but not yet inhabited place'

I know that this not what you mean but these statements can get picked up and twisted by other posters. The land that the state of Israel was founded upon was already inhabited in 1948, mainly by Palestinians but also by Bedouins, Armenian Orthodox and other Christian faiths. Jerusalem is a bit of a draw for the religious. It is not the only territory where mass displacements occurred in the decade following the Second World War, you could even call it relatively trouble free compared with the partition of India, or subsequently as anyone who has gone on holiday in Cyprus can see. But of course, no people had suffered anything like the Holocaust.

Edit: Thread title changed
[Post edited 6 Nov 2023 19:53]


No that wasn’t what I meant, and of course I know that “the land the state of Israel was founded upon was already inhabited in 1948” - that was a key part of the very point I was making!!

Poll: Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? 🤔

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:04 - Nov 6 with 3170 viewsStevieH

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:14 - Nov 6 with 3131 viewsredrickstuhaart

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:04 - Nov 6 by StevieH



Proper statesman. Intelligent, reasoned and decent.

Such a contrast with the likes of trump and Sunak. And what he says is spot on.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:56 - Nov 6 with 3076 viewsSwansea_Blue

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:04 - Nov 6 by StevieH



100% and not too dissimilar to what has been said on here in the main. And he’s right on the social media angle too. It’s becoming increasingly apparent that there’s a growing amount of polarisation on this. I’ve noticed it on here with people getting increasingly fractious, and I don’t know why. Is it social media narratives starting to take route? Take this thread for example, what’s there to argue over? I don’t see how hard it is to step back from all the noise and acknowledge that Hamas are murdering scum and Netanyahu’s regime are also murdering scum. Surely this is obvious and true?

Not that I know the answer, as it is incredibly complex. But hate and murder is only breeding more hate, so the current approach definitely isn’t the route to peace. And yet somehow Hamas does need to be dealt with. And so does Netanyahu. Dialogue is probably the only way, as uncomfortable as that sounds for those thirsting for revenge. The alternative is that one side has to be annihilated.

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:08 - Nov 6 with 3060 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 21:14 - Nov 6 by redrickstuhaart

Proper statesman. Intelligent, reasoned and decent.

Such a contrast with the likes of trump and Sunak. And what he says is spot on.


Obama in the clip poses the question as to what more he might have done but this from the New York Times in 2016 suggests he could have done more in the sense of being more even-handed.

"Over seven years, Mr. Obama has not permitted passage of any Security Council resolution specifically critical of Israel. But a careful examination of the record shows that, since 1967, every other American president allowed, or even had America vote for, Security Council resolutions taking Israel to task for actions and policies toward the Palestinians and other Arab neighbours."

One of those resolutions was one in 2011 condemning settlements in the West Bank, which the US vetoed.
[Post edited 6 Nov 2023 22:19]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:16 - Nov 6 with 3029 viewsWeWereZombies

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:08 - Nov 6 by DJR

Obama in the clip poses the question as to what more he might have done but this from the New York Times in 2016 suggests he could have done more in the sense of being more even-handed.

"Over seven years, Mr. Obama has not permitted passage of any Security Council resolution specifically critical of Israel. But a careful examination of the record shows that, since 1967, every other American president allowed, or even had America vote for, Security Council resolutions taking Israel to task for actions and policies toward the Palestinians and other Arab neighbours."

One of those resolutions was one in 2011 condemning settlements in the West Bank, which the US vetoed.
[Post edited 6 Nov 2023 22:19]


Although Obama does question himself in that clip and accept that he could have done more. At least he didn't move the United States embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/trump-jerusalem-israel-capit

Poll: How will we get fourteen points from the last five games ?

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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:27 - Nov 6 with 3005 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:16 - Nov 6 by WeWereZombies

Although Obama does question himself in that clip and accept that he could have done more. At least he didn't move the United States embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/trump-jerusalem-israel-capit


On the other hand, settlements are a much greater obstacle to a two state solution than the location of an embassy, which could easily be changed. Biden, however, has indicated no intention to do so.

Putting it another way, the mood music coming out of the US under Obama, Trump and Biden has not really put any pressure on the Israeli government when it comes to a two state solution.

[Post edited 6 Nov 2023 22:32]
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 04:29 - Nov 7 with 2874 viewsRyorry

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 22:16 - Nov 6 by WeWereZombies

Although Obama does question himself in that clip and accept that he could have done more. At least he didn't move the United States embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/06/world/middleeast/trump-jerusalem-israel-capit


Maybe he could put himself forward as a negotiator now to help rectify his previous omissions?

Still semi-active in politics, and with Michelle, very active in positive social/humanitarian projects. One of the very few people in the world who commands sufficient respect to be able to draw both sides to the table? As previously mentioned, a thoughtful, intelligent & compassionate man.

Poll: Why can't/don't we protest like the French do? 🤔

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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 04:50 - Nov 7 with 2849 viewsJoey_Joe_Joe_Junior

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 07:56 - Nov 3 by Darth_Koont

There is no justification for the “complete annihilation” of Hamas. As that necessarily will mean the death of tens of thousands of innocent civilians. Maybe even wiping Gaza off the map completely.

Of course, Hamas must be stopped and marginalised but that means dialogue and negotiation. That, as we know only too well ourselves in Northern Ireland, is the way to destroy terrorism.


I just re-read your first sentence about 4 times in the hope the words might change.

How on earth you are still allowed to post on this board is beyond me. You should be ashamed of drivel you spout on here.
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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 05:44 - Nov 7 with 2816 viewsnoggin

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 04:50 - Nov 7 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior

I just re-read your first sentence about 4 times in the hope the words might change.

How on earth you are still allowed to post on this board is beyond me. You should be ashamed of drivel you spout on here.


You seem to have not read the second sentence. Either that or you believe that the deaths of thousands of innocent Palestinians is acceptable.

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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 07:20 - Nov 7 with 2755 viewsZapers

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 05:44 - Nov 7 by noggin

You seem to have not read the second sentence. Either that or you believe that the deaths of thousands of innocent Palestinians is acceptable.


Maybe email Hamas, call them, or just go and visit them? Whilst you are in contact with them, ask them why they hide behind innocent Palestinians, and use them as human shields.

You might then find the reason that so many innocent people are being killed.
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How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 07:43 - Nov 7 with 2731 viewsDJR

How many Palestinian lives is sufficient? on 04:29 - Nov 7 by Ryorry

Maybe he could put himself forward as a negotiator now to help rectify his previous omissions?

Still semi-active in politics, and with Michelle, very active in positive social/humanitarian projects. One of the very few people in the world who commands sufficient respect to be able to draw both sides to the table? As previously mentioned, a thoughtful, intelligent & compassionate man.


Netanyahu's words last night with respect to the post-conflict situation suggest that any prospect of a two state solution is gone for good. And Jeremy Bowen this morning indicated that all the Israelis he had spoken to now took the line that "it is us or them", suggesting that Netanyahu reflects the mood in the country.

And this is what he said about ceasefires/pauses.

“There’ll be no ceasefire, general ceasefire, in Gaza without the release of our hostages. As far as tactical little pauses, an hour here, an hour there. We’ve had them before, I suppose.”
[Post edited 7 Nov 2023 7:47]
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How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 07:54 - Nov 7 with 2711 viewsDarth_Koont

How many Palastinian lives is sufficiant? on 04:50 - Nov 7 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior

I just re-read your first sentence about 4 times in the hope the words might change.

How on earth you are still allowed to post on this board is beyond me. You should be ashamed of drivel you spout on here.


Don’t be silly. I’m allowed to post here because people can generally read better than that.

In any case, if you think you can bomb extremism into oblivion while doing the same to tens of thousands of civilians and forcibly displacing a couple of million more, you might not be thinking this through. But a lack of thought and certainly a lack of empathy seems to be part of the deal here.

Pronouns: He/Him

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