| Very disappointed 17:23 - May 12 with 10204 views | HalifaxBlue |
that the club has given a contract to a man who barely two years ago was convicted of sending death threats to his wife. |  |
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| Very disappointed on 19:24 - May 12 with 900 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Very disappointed on 19:02 - May 12 by chrismakin |
Would you welcome a rapist then. As he may be good at his job tho.
Or a killer. Could be good too.
I dont need to know the ins and outs.
It's quite simple
Drink driving conviction and refused to even do the test
Domestic abuse case which included death threats to his wife with the victim in fear for her life.
I dont need to know why it happend.
Asking what she did to him is just like saying she wore a dress so she wanted it. |
"Asking what she did to him is just like saying she wore a dress so she wanted"
Such hyperbole diminishes your argument.
It's ok to disagree without trying to create a narrative that doesn't exist. |  |
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| Very disappointed on 19:24 - May 12 with 902 views | 44_not_out |
| Very disappointed on 19:02 - May 12 by chrismakin |
Would you welcome a rapist then. As he may be good at his job tho.
Or a killer. Could be good too.
I dont need to know the ins and outs.
It's quite simple
Drink driving conviction and refused to even do the test
Domestic abuse case which included death threats to his wife with the victim in fear for her life.
I dont need to know why it happend.
Asking what she did to him is just like saying she wore a dress so she wanted it. |
Just a thought...... have you properly researched Chris Makin’s past. Might be worth checking |  | | |
| Very disappointed on 19:26 - May 12 with 881 views | chrismakin |
| Very disappointed on 19:16 - May 12 by MerseyBlue |
Why do you get to judge whether a person is allowed to be employed in their chosen profession? Do you not believe that people can be rehabilitated?
On your last point, it's actually quite different from that. Some years ago, two close friends of mine were in a relationship. It was a horrible, toxic relationship where the man would often ruin evenings spent together by constantly and persistently belittling his partner in front of the rest of us as a group of friends.
It ended up in a fight between us and him on many occasions, and although he had been our friend longer, we used to beg her to break up with him. She never would, she just used to take it and it got to the point where they stopped getting invited out.
Several months down the line, finally at her limit she ended up smashing him over the head with a dumbell.
Now that's not something that she ever would have done under normal circumstances, but she was pushed to it. Does that make it right? No, absolutely not.
Nobody knows the circumstances behind what happened with Jeffers - he might just be an absolute scumbag, or he might have acted like an absolute scumbag because he was provoked.
We don't know, so we shouldn't judge. If he comes here, keeps his nose clean and does his job well, that's OK in my book. |
It's a football forum. I can share my thoughts on it as much as I like. |  |
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| Very disappointed on 19:30 - May 12 with 862 views | Keno |
There is the first one of these
feel free to cast it
For my part he paid his fine, had it been more serious he would have sone time. I'm prepared to give him a chance and see how he gets on |  |
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| Very disappointed on 19:30 - May 12 with 862 views | chrismakin |
| Very disappointed on 19:24 - May 12 by Marshalls_Mullet |
"Asking what she did to him is just like saying she wore a dress so she wanted"
Such hyperbole diminishes your argument.
It's ok to disagree without trying to create a narrative that doesn't exist. |
It's a valid point
What did she do to make him pick up his phone to send the threats. Victim blaming at its best | |
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| Very disappointed on 19:30 - May 12 with 862 views | gtsb1966 |
| Very disappointed on 19:26 - May 12 by chrismakin |
It's a football forum. I can share my thoughts on it as much as I like. |
In other words "you got me by the bollox there"...  |  | | |
| Very disappointed on 19:31 - May 12 with 848 views | Forza_Blue |
| Very disappointed on 19:22 - May 12 by chrismakin |
I only said his drink drive was a conviction. |
So his 20 year relationship broke down, he saw his wife with another dude and sent some messages to her which weren't appropriate. Pleaded guilty, case dealt with. Not being funny, but if I was in the same shoes I think I might lose a bit of my s*** too.
As for drink driving, that's a pre-requisite for footballers these days isn't it? That was a tongue in cheek comment, just in case anyone needs clarification. |  | | |
| Very disappointed on 19:32 - May 12 with 847 views | Trequartista |
So he is never allowed to work again? |  |
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| Very disappointed on 19:32 - May 12 with 841 views | chrismakin |
| Very disappointed on 19:30 - May 12 by gtsb1966 |
In other words "you got me by the bollox there"... |
He asked why do I believe I can judge him
It's a forum. And I'm allowed my opinion | |
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| Very disappointed on 19:35 - May 12 with 824 views | 44_not_out |
| Very disappointed on 19:32 - May 12 by chrismakin |
He asked why do I believe I can judge him
It's a forum. And I'm allowed my opinion |
Love to hear your opinion on statues for club legends
Come to think of it, did Sir Alf select any BAME players | | | |
| Very disappointed on 19:37 - May 12 with 826 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Very disappointed on 19:30 - May 12 by chrismakin |
It's a valid point
What did she do to make him pick up his phone to send the threats. Victim blaming at its best |
It's very different to saying "wearing a short dress is asking for it" .
The point people have made is that no one condones what he did, but some people believe in the right to rehabilitation.
It's ok to disagree. | |
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| Very disappointed on 19:38 - May 12 with 817 views | MerseyBlue |
| Very disappointed on 19:26 - May 12 by chrismakin |
It's a football forum. I can share my thoughts on it as much as I like. |
Well duh, but you make sweeping judgements without any real justification except for that if someone commits a crime, that makes them a bad person and there's nothing they can do about it.
A lot of people have made constructive points (myself included) and you've just dismissed them because you've made your mind up on someone you know naff all about. |  |
| "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." | | Poll: | Who will be the winner? |
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| Very disappointed on 19:40 - May 12 with 816 views | multiplescoregasms |
No one can condone violence or threats of violence, no matter the reason. What we can do though is to give that person the chance to learn that their behaviour is not acceptable and society expects better. Should his career be ended by this? Good question.
So I assume we could be looking for a new striker after his hearing on 12 July then?
https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/news/9889632.forest-green-striker-james-n
We all screw up at some point in our lives. Some do it more than once. |  | | |
| Very disappointed on 19:48 - May 12 with 789 views | chrismakin |
| Very disappointed on 19:38 - May 12 by MerseyBlue |
Well duh, but you make sweeping judgements without any real justification except for that if someone commits a crime, that makes them a bad person and there's nothing they can do about it.
A lot of people have made constructive points (myself included) and you've just dismissed them because you've made your mind up on someone you know naff all about. |
No sweeping judgements. Kept it fact based all the way through actually.
Jeffers may be a lovely fella. He may be full of regret.
But he did what he did and whilst I agree Jobs should be available for people who do bad things.. companies should be careful what roles they give out to these people especially when they are very quick to support certain charities etc.
You disagree fine. PC disagrees fine.
Doesnt mean we as individual cant use the forum to show our disgust at the situation. | |
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| Very disappointed on 19:52 - May 12 with 773 views | 44_not_out |
| Very disappointed on 19:48 - May 12 by chrismakin |
No sweeping judgements. Kept it fact based all the way through actually.
Jeffers may be a lovely fella. He may be full of regret.
But he did what he did and whilst I agree Jobs should be available for people who do bad things.. companies should be careful what roles they give out to these people especially when they are very quick to support certain charities etc.
You disagree fine. PC disagrees fine.
Doesnt mean we as individual cant use the forum to show our disgust at the situation. |
‘Disgust’ wow ..... so will you be at the unveiling of the statue
I’m guessing you won’t be getting ‘Norwood’ ‘10’ on your shirt | | | |
| Very disappointed on 19:56 - May 12 with 758 views | chrismakin |
| Very disappointed on 19:52 - May 12 by 44_not_out |
‘Disgust’ wow ..... so will you be at the unveiling of the statue
I’m guessing you won’t be getting ‘Norwood’ ‘10’ on your shirt |
You do know I'm not a Norwood fan dont you | |
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| Very disappointed on 19:57 - May 12 with 753 views | ZXBlue |
| Very disappointed on 19:30 - May 12 by Keno |
There is the first one of these
feel free to cast it
For my part he paid his fine, had it been more serious he would have sone time. I'm prepared to give him a chance and see how he gets on |
I understand what you say. However, it is right to consider people's character when looking at appointments. And its not just that incident. | | | |
| Very disappointed on 20:05 - May 12 with 729 views | Keno |
| Very disappointed on 19:57 - May 12 by ZXBlue |
I understand what you say. However, it is right to consider people's character when looking at appointments. And its not just that incident. |
and I am sure those people who know more about his character, his history and everything that has gone before, the story behind the headline and certainly in more detail than we do have taken those incidents into account
I am uncomfortable with the outpouring of righteous indignation when he has been tried convicted and paid his fine.
Where does that stop?
Norwood has a speeding conviction
I got a speeding ticket
John Cobbold probably broke a few laws in time and I am lead to may have occasionally drunk a little too much
Lets give Jeffers a chance eh .... | |
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| Very disappointed on 20:06 - May 12 with 725 views | 44_not_out |
| Very disappointed on 19:56 - May 12 by chrismakin |
You do know I'm not a Norwood fan dont you |
If you really did your research, there would be quite a few others you would not be a fan of.
You’ve jumped on this Jeffers bandwagon and make out the guy should be in stocks on the cornhill
Genuine question. Should those in the hall of fame with similar misdemeanours, be removed?
The guy messed up and has been suitably dealt with. Let it go | | | |
| Very disappointed on 20:10 - May 12 with 712 views | MerseyBlue |
| Very disappointed on 19:48 - May 12 by chrismakin |
No sweeping judgements. Kept it fact based all the way through actually.
Jeffers may be a lovely fella. He may be full of regret.
But he did what he did and whilst I agree Jobs should be available for people who do bad things.. companies should be careful what roles they give out to these people especially when they are very quick to support certain charities etc.
You disagree fine. PC disagrees fine.
Doesnt mean we as individual cant use the forum to show our disgust at the situation. |
You said in one of your posts that you don't need to know the ins and outs, yet you have made a decision - that sounds pretty sweeping to me.
Football is his profession, he hasn't done anything that impacts his ability to work in that profession. What would you like him to go and do instead? | |
| "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." | | Poll: | Who will be the winner? |
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| Very disappointed on 20:17 - May 12 with 684 views | chrismakin |
| Very disappointed on 20:06 - May 12 by 44_not_out |
If you really did your research, there would be quite a few others you would not be a fan of.
You’ve jumped on this Jeffers bandwagon and make out the guy should be in stocks on the cornhill
Genuine question. Should those in the hall of fame with similar misdemeanours, be removed?
The guy messed up and has been suitably dealt with. Let it go |
If you provided examples I can discuss them with you. You keep saying ex players but dont relay what they did etc. | |
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| Very disappointed on 20:25 - May 12 with 664 views | chrismakin |
| Very disappointed on 20:10 - May 12 by MerseyBlue |
You said in one of your posts that you don't need to know the ins and outs, yet you have made a decision - that sounds pretty sweeping to me.
Football is his profession, he hasn't done anything that impacts his ability to work in that profession. What would you like him to go and do instead? |
Its not sweeping tho
I hate drink drivers he was convicted
He was involved in domestic abuse and the content of what he sent is known I dont condone this and cant believe some peoples response to this is "what did she do to make him do it"
You said in one of your posts that you don't need to know the ins and outs, yet you have made a decision - that sounds pretty sweeping to me.
Football is his profession, he hasn't done anything that impacts his ability to work in that profession. What would you like him to go and do instead?
I'm not his work coach. And I dont care if he stayed In football I would rather our club not be associated with him. Same as I wouldnt want us to have ched Evans in the squad. Same as I'd rather Norwood not be at the club.
It's fine. The club feels Its ok. But they would be best not to bother with PR stunts for charities imo. | |
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| Very disappointed on 20:43 - May 12 with 642 views | HalifaxBlue |
| Very disappointed on 18:34 - May 12 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I see you still haven't answered my question. I've asked you twice now.
What you've posted here - "No matter what happened, you can always always make this argument" - is why I stay out of it. I don't know the fully story. I don't know if he's changed. He paid the price for his crime and we move on.
I have a vested interest. I was accused of something by an ex. She even had the police turn up at my work to interview me. I was an absolute mess at what was happening... to such an extent that one of the officers said, "Look, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but she's well known to us for making such complaints. But we have to follow it up." It was all lies (I think she was a paranoid schizophrenic) but it was absolute hell for me.
I'm not saying this is the case here, but we don't know the full story, we don't know context, we don't know if he's changed, we don't know if she's forgiven him etc etc. I think this sort of stuff is nothing to do with us. The manager has deemed him fit enough for the job. He hasn't appointed a murderer. All this self-righteous judgement sits very badly with me.
i understand your distaste to an extent. I wouldn't want us to employ Ched Evans for example. But you have to draw a line and I guess our lines differ. |
I'm parsing through trying to find your one question - there are a few but I assume you are referring to when you asked me do I know the full story? If so the answer is no and I took it to be implied in my response.
I understand your reasoning for staying out of it. But I hope you understand my reasoning for not staying out of it - domestic violence is a problem that isn't taken seriously enough (at least where I am from) and I think people should speak up when they feel it's appropriate.
FWIW I also have vested interest in this - I am close with multiple women who have gone through hell for having the nerve to even state that they have gone through it. I would imagine an alarming number of people on this board are. I also have close friends who have likely been falsely accused. I still recognize that the problem of domestic violence is MAGNITUDES larger than the problem of people being falsely accused of domestic violence.
It affects people deeply to see someone charged (so recently I would add) with this kind of crime occupy positions like these in organizations that are so dear to a community. It can have a very alienating effect. Of course I don't expect everyone to agree with me. But I definitely feel it's worth considering how it affects others and the message it can send regarding this kind of behaviour.
I hope I'm not coming across as aggressive or snidy btw - I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I've heard the point you are making before. I just think those who wish to say they aren't cool with it have a very very valid grievance. | |
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| Very disappointed on 21:12 - May 12 with 607 views | Mullet |
| Very disappointed on 20:43 - May 12 by HalifaxBlue |
I'm parsing through trying to find your one question - there are a few but I assume you are referring to when you asked me do I know the full story? If so the answer is no and I took it to be implied in my response.
I understand your reasoning for staying out of it. But I hope you understand my reasoning for not staying out of it - domestic violence is a problem that isn't taken seriously enough (at least where I am from) and I think people should speak up when they feel it's appropriate.
FWIW I also have vested interest in this - I am close with multiple women who have gone through hell for having the nerve to even state that they have gone through it. I would imagine an alarming number of people on this board are. I also have close friends who have likely been falsely accused. I still recognize that the problem of domestic violence is MAGNITUDES larger than the problem of people being falsely accused of domestic violence.
It affects people deeply to see someone charged (so recently I would add) with this kind of crime occupy positions like these in organizations that are so dear to a community. It can have a very alienating effect. Of course I don't expect everyone to agree with me. But I definitely feel it's worth considering how it affects others and the message it can send regarding this kind of behaviour.
I hope I'm not coming across as aggressive or snidy btw - I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I've heard the point you are making before. I just think those who wish to say they aren't cool with it have a very very valid grievance. |
Some people are quite happy to justify their tolerance for violence and abuse towards women / minorities etc. when it suits them or deflects from their own behaviour.
Whether it's tacit and non-committal or full on deflection of their own past. But it's a shame it has to be binary.
While I'm not of the opinion Jeffers deserves blackballing more or less than others who have murky pasts. The behaviour, the recency of it and the risk that entails to the reputation of the club, its success etc. does put unnecessary pressure on Cook for making this call and the owners for sanctioning it.
Simply because the scrutiny it already brings means as soon as he makes one slip, people will be focused on it. As before, hopefully the fresh start miles away with support means he can put his demons aside.
But having seen female fans and some male ones receive abuse for expressing any sort of concern is exactly why people should be allowed to have shades of grey on this. Norwood seems like another player and person who would do well to focus on his job and away from the media circus - it did wonders for Mings who was much younger and with far less blemishes on him for example. |  |
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| Very disappointed on 21:13 - May 12 with 603 views | MerseyBlue |
| Very disappointed on 20:25 - May 12 by chrismakin |
Its not sweeping tho
I hate drink drivers he was convicted
He was involved in domestic abuse and the content of what he sent is known I dont condone this and cant believe some peoples response to this is "what did she do to make him do it"
You said in one of your posts that you don't need to know the ins and outs, yet you have made a decision - that sounds pretty sweeping to me.
Football is his profession, he hasn't done anything that impacts his ability to work in that profession. What would you like him to go and do instead?
I'm not his work coach. And I dont care if he stayed In football I would rather our club not be associated with him. Same as I wouldnt want us to have ched Evans in the squad. Same as I'd rather Norwood not be at the club.
It's fine. The club feels Its ok. But they would be best not to bother with PR stunts for charities imo. |
It is very difficult to discern a coherent point from your posts.
You are judging people based on what you read in the papers, or more accurately, what other people tell you they have read in the papers.
Ched Evans ended up being found not guilty, for what it's worth. Although I don't really want to get into that topic as it has been done to death.
We could go on and on but what you're suggesting is that people can't reform their characters, or at the very least, shouldn't be given a chance to do it.
You said you are open to people being given a chance at employment after a chequered past (to put it mildly), but that you wouldn't want them here. If everyone takes that attitude then basically, people aren't going to be given a chance at redemption and rehabilitation. It's just a flawed argument. | |
| "Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." | | Poll: | Who will be the winner? |
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