| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr 10:39 - May 14 with 20436 views | Vic |
Woolfie, KVY and Dobra that he doesn’t want them. It could well be that he’s sat them down and said ‘Here’s the deal Luke, I know I’ve been tough and said some harsh things, and I will be bringing in a whole batch of new players. But I’d like you to stay and be part of this, however, if after this season you want to go I will understand that and won’t stand in your way.’
I think that’s quite feasible and very different to saying he wants them out. I mean, it’s clear he rates them, and Norwood, so why would he bin them? I think there’s more to this than we think, and I wonder if we’ve got the wrong end of the stick. Clearly Watson and Warren know more than they are letting on at the moment. They are running the story in a way that generates clicks for their paper (it’s what they are paid for), but they said themselves in the podcast that there’s things they know but haven’t said. [Post edited 14 May 2021 10:41]
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:28 - May 14 with 857 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:17 - May 14 by gordon |
Dobra for example has been the ITFC man of the match (according to TWTD) for the last two matches, and has 4 in total this season. |
I like Dobra, and he's had some nice moments, but I don't remember him being that amazing this season.
4 MOTM performances across a 46 game season doesn't sound massively impressive. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:30 - May 14 with 851 views | gordon |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:20 - May 14 by Herbivore |
Downes, Dozzell, and Bishop have all been MOM at times this season too. Downes and Woolfenden were very good for most of last season and would have been MOM several times between them. It's just pure revisionism. |
Absolutely - they definitely haven't delivered to their potential yet, but Woolfenden, Vincent-Young, Downes, Dozzell and Dobra are all very talented at this level, and with the potential to be decent championship players, and also all with the potential to be £10 million players if (agreed its a big if) they had one really good season at this level or higher.
The upheaval is totally unnecessary - if we brought in 6 or so top additions - three attacking players, a goalkeeper, and centre-back and a left-back, we'd easily have as good a squad as any in the league. |  | | |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:30 - May 14 with 851 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:20 - May 14 by Herbivore |
Downes, Dozzell, and Bishop have all been MOM at times this season too. Downes and Woolfenden were very good for most of last season and would have been MOM several times between them. It's just pure revisionism. |
Why are we mid table in League 1 (again) if these players are so great? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:32 - May 14 with 844 views | Herbivore |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:28 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I like Dobra, and he's had some nice moments, but I don't remember him being that amazing this season.
4 MOTM performances across a 46 game season doesn't sound massively impressive. |
So it's now gone from none of our academy players have been MoM over the last 2 years to 4 MoM performances from one player in one season isn't very impressive?
You crack on with your mental gymnastics. I'm done. You and many others seem to have lost your heads. |  |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:32 - May 14 with 839 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:30 - May 14 by gordon |
Absolutely - they definitely haven't delivered to their potential yet, but Woolfenden, Vincent-Young, Downes, Dozzell and Dobra are all very talented at this level, and with the potential to be decent championship players, and also all with the potential to be £10 million players if (agreed its a big if) they had one really good season at this level or higher.
The upheaval is totally unnecessary - if we brought in 6 or so top additions - three attacking players, a goalkeeper, and centre-back and a left-back, we'd easily have as good a squad as any in the league. |
Sorry, but no-ones buying any of our current squad for £10m. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:33 - May 14 with 836 views | Herbivore |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:30 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Why are we mid table in League 1 (again) if these players are so great? |
You keep jumping through those mental hoops, mate. | |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:34 - May 14 with 833 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:32 - May 14 by Herbivore |
So it's now gone from none of our academy players have been MoM over the last 2 years to 4 MoM performances from one player in one season isn't very impressive?
You crack on with your mental gymnastics. I'm done. You and many others seem to have lost your heads. |
Where have I said "none of our academy players have been MoM over the last 2 years"? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:34 - May 14 with 832 views | gordon |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:30 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Why are we mid table in League 1 (again) if these players are so great? |
Because Bennetts, Lankester, Drinan, Judge, Sears, Hawkins, Jackson and Edwards are / were all pretty rubbish and Norwood couldn't keep himself fit so we were woeful going forward. | | | |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:34 - May 14 with 831 views | Herbivore |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:32 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Sorry, but no-ones buying any of our current squad for £10m. |
That's not what he said, but you crack on. Have a nice evening, Dollers. | |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:36 - May 14 with 821 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:34 - May 14 by Herbivore |
That's not what he said, but you crack on. Have a nice evening, Dollers. |
He said they have the potential to be. I don't see it. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:38 - May 14 with 818 views | Herbivore |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:34 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Where have I said "none of our academy players have been MoM over the last 2 years"? |
"I really don't remember any games in the last 2 or 3 season where any of them put in Man Of The Match performances" - Dollers, circa 20 minutes ago. | |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:42 - May 14 with 807 views | gordon |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:32 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Sorry, but no-ones buying any of our current squad for £10m. |
Do you remember Adam Webster? | | | |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:43 - May 14 with 807 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:38 - May 14 by Herbivore |
"I really don't remember any games in the last 2 or 3 season where any of them put in Man Of The Match performances" - Dollers, circa 20 minutes ago. |
Yeah, and can you see that the two sentences aren't the same?
You love the "mental gymnastics" phrase but I'm really not doing any. I genuinely don't remember any of these players being head and shoulders above anyone else on the pitch, regardless of if the great and the good of TWTD voted them the least worst a few times.
I've asked you for specific examples and you haven't afforded me any. In which games did these wonderful players run the show? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:47 - May 14 with 798 views | Herbivore |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:43 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yeah, and can you see that the two sentences aren't the same?
You love the "mental gymnastics" phrase but I'm really not doing any. I genuinely don't remember any of these players being head and shoulders above anyone else on the pitch, regardless of if the great and the good of TWTD voted them the least worst a few times.
I've asked you for specific examples and you haven't afforded me any. In which games did these wonderful players run the show? |
Ah okay, so what you really intended to convey wasn't that these players aren't very good, it's that you have a terrible memory.
Yes Dollers, mental gymnastics and goalpost shifting going on all over the place from you here. This is utterly pointless. | |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:50 - May 14 with 787 views | chrismakin |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:38 - May 14 by Herbivore |
"I really don't remember any games in the last 2 or 3 season where any of them put in Man Of The Match performances" - Dollers, circa 20 minutes ago. |
TBF to Flash, getting MOTM and putting on a MOTM display can be different. |  |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:52 - May 14 with 785 views | Herbivore |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:50 - May 14 by chrismakin |
TBF to Flash, getting MOTM and putting on a MOTM display can be different. |
Jesus wept. | |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:54 - May 14 with 783 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:47 - May 14 by Herbivore |
Ah okay, so what you really intended to convey wasn't that these players aren't very good, it's that you have a terrible memory.
Yes Dollers, mental gymnastics and goalpost shifting going on all over the place from you here. This is utterly pointless. |
Still waiting for you to give some specific examples where they've outshone everyone else in a League 1 game.
The only mental gymnastics are from you avoiding the question. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:57 - May 14 with 773 views | chrismakin |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:52 - May 14 by Herbivore |
Jesus wept. |
Just to help
Edwards.. MOTM against Northampton away, lost 0-3
What did he do that was a motm performance? | |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:58 - May 14 with 770 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:52 - May 14 by Herbivore |
Jesus wept. |
He's 100% right. Even when we lose 3-0 there will be a player who gets the highest ratings on here. It doesn't mean they were absolute class and ran the show does it? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 19:38 - May 14 with 741 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:57 - May 14 by chrismakin |
Just to help
Edwards.. MOTM against Northampton away, lost 0-3
What did he do that was a motm performance? |
It's an excellent point. And where I've said he's avoiding the question he's just downarrowed me rather than replying. I rest my case.
I like some of these players. And if it were down to me I'd give them another chance. But they really haven't pulled up any trees and I fully understand an experienced manager coming in, seeing what he's seen, and deciding he can get better. It's a shame, because I pinned my hopes on a lot of these players. But we're mid-table League 1, two seasons in a row, and without the takeover we probably would be nearer to relegation candidates than promotion ones.
These players haven't done enough. The reason Herbs isn't naming a game where one of them outclassed everyone else at this level is because it didn't happen. Emotionally, I'd LOVE Dozzell to be as good as his dad. And he does pop in a beautiful killer pass now and again. But we need more. I used to love Teddy (when he wasn't injured). But honestly, when was the last time he bossed a game (at this level, let alone above)? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 19:42 - May 14 with 733 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 18:42 - May 14 by gordon |
Do you remember Adam Webster? |
Yep. I also remember Tyrone Mings. What's your point caller?
I'll confidently state now that none of the current ITFC squad will command a £10m fee. Feel free to bookmark this. I don't think it's that outlandish a claim. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Not really.... on 19:42 - May 14 with 732 views | pointofblue |
| Not really.... on 18:19 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
LOL. You reply with that to Herbs saying everything has become so binary on here without a hint of irony! |
Well that is sort of my point? That’s how it feels on here - Cook must not be questioned about anything and the players are all failures. Nothing in between, no nuance, just that. |  |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 19:46 - May 14 with 717 views | itfcjoe |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 19:38 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's an excellent point. And where I've said he's avoiding the question he's just downarrowed me rather than replying. I rest my case.
I like some of these players. And if it were down to me I'd give them another chance. But they really haven't pulled up any trees and I fully understand an experienced manager coming in, seeing what he's seen, and deciding he can get better. It's a shame, because I pinned my hopes on a lot of these players. But we're mid-table League 1, two seasons in a row, and without the takeover we probably would be nearer to relegation candidates than promotion ones.
These players haven't done enough. The reason Herbs isn't naming a game where one of them outclassed everyone else at this level is because it didn't happen. Emotionally, I'd LOVE Dozzell to be as good as his dad. And he does pop in a beautiful killer pass now and again. But we need more. I used to love Teddy (when he wasn't injured). But honestly, when was the last time he bossed a game (at this level, let alone above)? |
Surely you remember that Woolfie and Downes were our best players last season, and garnered genuine PL interest because of their form?
This season been poor, Downes injury and suspensions have hurt him - Woolfie had a bad injury at start of season, then covid for a couple of weeks and other than that has had to play alongside McGuinness which has forced him to take a senior partner role at 21/22 which he hasn’t flourished at.
Dozzell is a bit of a marmite player - but just writing off Downes and Woolfies 2019/20 season is happening here |  |
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| Not really.... on 19:51 - May 14 with 712 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Not really.... on 19:42 - May 14 by pointofblue |
Well that is sort of my point? That’s how it feels on here - Cook must not be questioned about anything and the players are all failures. Nothing in between, no nuance, just that. |
That isn't the case though. I always think the manager should be questioned - and if he's been as ruthless, and frankly rude, as people are suggesting then for me that's out of order. There's also no need. It doesn't make any sense.
I also don't think people are saying the players are all failures. I do like some of these players and have repeatedly stated I'd give them another chance. But I can also understand why an experienced manager, who knows more than me, has seen them at close quarters, and has no emotional attachment to them, has come in and decided they're not good enough.
Paul Cook's job is at stake, so why would he throw away good players he already has? Unless you think they ARE good players and he's just clueless. If you look at the CVs of both it doesn't stack up. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 19:53 - May 14 with 707 views | chrismakin |
| Maybe Cook hasn’t told the like of Downes, Dozzell Jr on 19:38 - May 14 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's an excellent point. And where I've said he's avoiding the question he's just downarrowed me rather than replying. I rest my case.
I like some of these players. And if it were down to me I'd give them another chance. But they really haven't pulled up any trees and I fully understand an experienced manager coming in, seeing what he's seen, and deciding he can get better. It's a shame, because I pinned my hopes on a lot of these players. But we're mid-table League 1, two seasons in a row, and without the takeover we probably would be nearer to relegation candidates than promotion ones.
These players haven't done enough. The reason Herbs isn't naming a game where one of them outclassed everyone else at this level is because it didn't happen. Emotionally, I'd LOVE Dozzell to be as good as his dad. And he does pop in a beautiful killer pass now and again. But we need more. I used to love Teddy (when he wasn't injured). But honestly, when was the last time he bossed a game (at this level, let alone above)? |
I can appreciate the connection people have with our academy products, and I am a contributor to the academy so it's its brilliant that we have had this number of players included in the first team however, Whilst I appreciate posters belief that with better players the likes of Dozzell, Bishop etc would get better, I do slightly disagree, on the basis that individually the errors of these players isn't due to the players around them but them as players themselves. Dozzell has unfortunately turned into a player who doesn't give 100% care of where his passes go, with this he has given away the ball far to often and ends up chasing down the opposition player in question which increasingly ended up in a freekick being given away as he tugged on their shirts desperate to get the ball back, this isn't anyone elses fault. I do think a club will look at him and feel he will work with them, and I will continue to follow his progress, however I couldnt' with confidence say he will be a success
Bishop, came onto the scene with a mini championship messi type style about him, but he's another that when on the ball himself, hasn't done enough, he doesn't threaten as much as his role requires, he doesn't have that clever pass in him needed to split the defence ( which dozzell actually has funnily enough) and Bish is another who failed to make a simple 10 yard pass on more than 1 occasion through the season.
Downes... I would love him to stay, but he has made it clear he wants to leave, he did last year and he's done the same this time round again, so as much as he would be one of the first names on the team sheet, his time unfortunately appears to be coming to the end at town
yes there are ways of doing things, we certainly don't know 100% with accuracy how things have been done, however I do agree that the players being told to move on is for the benefit of the club. | |
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